Sunday, April 3, 2016

Evolution from Total Scoundrel to One Woman Man: A Guest Post From Han Solo



We are pleased to once again welcome Han Solo to the blog!


It's been a while since I've been around here, but apparently there's been even more discussion about my sex life. I thought we had basically cleared it all up when I showed up here before, or when Leia decided to share some of my finer qualities, but I guess you guys need some other things to talk about.

Me and Leia have been together for 25 years now (don't let anyone tell you any different) and yeah, things have changed and evolved over the years for sure. I'm not a kid anymore, but as our now mostly grown up kids will tell you, we are pretty much still just as into each other as we've ever been. I do have to say, I wouldn't want things any other way.

We all know I was, well, experienced by the time I met Leia. I mean, I think any guy in my situation, flying all over the galaxy and spending time in some of the seedier places around, is gonna find himself in bed with some women here and there. Maybe not as many as you might think, but definitely more than a few. I was never big on one night stands, though there were a handful of those. But I also wasn't that big on keeping anyone around for that long, and I don't think too many of them were into that either. It was fun, but I never met anyone I would've been devastated if I never got to see them again.

I guess you were wondering about the actual sex. At this point, my memory is a little fuzzy on a lot of it, and I pretty much never sit around reminiscing about it. I haven't touched another woman besides Leia for a long, long time (don't feel too sorry for me, I touch her a lot!) and I am pretty sure she prefers not to hear about any of it, but I'll see what I can come up with.

I guess I started like any teenager, with only one goal and really no plans beyond that or really much caring about learning any special tricks. I was a little selfish maybe, but usually neither one of us really knew what we were doing or what we might be missing out on. I remember a fair amount of fumbling and apologizing and nothing taking all that long and certainly nothing spectacular. I don't think I was insecure or anything but I definitely wasn't all that confident.

Eventually I started occasionally running into women who weren't afraid to tell me what they liked and I learned some new tricks, and my confidence grew. And yeah, it starts to be more fun when you know the ladies are having a good time. It's nice to have that kind of reputation. Of course I had my fun too, and mostly that was all it was: fun. And just so simple, nothing else to worry about because nobody was all that invested, it was just something to do. At the time I was more than happy with just that. I mean, who wants to complicate things or be worried about whether or not anyone's feelings are getting hurt?

Then I met Leia. And suddenly there was a lot more to worry about. I never felt that way about anyone before. It didn't take long before I couldn't imagine my life without her, and that definitely scared me, but it made me even more determined to get her to let her walls down. Sure, sex was part of that, but I wanted so much more than that from her. I never really knew what intimacy was before her.

So, yeah, I gave up all the "fun" stuff once I was with her. It didn't scare me though, because I got so much more. I mean, to start, we were making up for a couple of years of built up sexual tension. I couldn't keep my hands off her, and if memory serves, she couldn't keep hers off me either. I mean, before, it was fun, and I liked making the women feel good, but with Leia, it was so much more than just wanting to make her feel good. I never really wanted to connect or bond with someone the way I did with her. Looking in her eyes, the way she looked at me, wondering what she was thinking and just being so in love with her, I can't put it into words. It also doesn't hurt that for me she's the most beautiful woman I've ever known.

I obviously knew what I was doing more than she did, but she was a quick learner. I got to learn the things she liked the most, and the things she liked slightly less (I'm not sure we found anything she outright didn't like, mostly she has favorites and not-as-favorites, depending on her mood) and she figured out some ways to drive me absolutely crazy that even I had never experienced before. Maybe it's just because it's her, the love of my life, and that makes everything better, but sometimes I can't believe how good she can make me feel, and not just physically. She wants me for me, all of me, and not just because of what I can do for her in the bedroom.

She tells me she can actually feel how much I love her. Everyone knows I don't like the idea of anyone getting inside my head, not even my wife, but sometimes she can sort of project how she feels about me and I can get a real sense of it, and I'm not all that sentimental, but I can't even describe what it's like to actually be able to feel how much she loves me. If this is what it's like to be with the same woman for the rest of my life, I think I'll take it.

Sure, things have changed some over the years. We're definitely not as frantic about it as we were in the beginning. Except maybe sometimes, if it's been a while. I'm definitely a lot less concerned about whether or not I'll lose her because I'm pretty sure by now she has decided to keep me, and I'm not letting her go, that's for sure. It's more than just the physical side of things, and of course that part is always good. I had no idea how good it could be to have someone hold me like that or say "I love you" over and over again. I mean yeah, sex is gonna feel pretty good no matter what, but it's on another level with someone I know so completely, and who I know loves me so much, and I'm still completely and totally in love with. She's also the mother of my children, and it's just incredible to be with someone who has given me so much. I just like being with her in general, no matter what we're doing.

Didn't I just say up there that I wasn't really a sentimental guy? I'm blabbering on with all this mushy stuff, huh? Anyway, like I said, it's been 25 years and I'm definitely not tired of her yet. She still seems just as happy with me, too, although maybe you should ask her opinion on that. Yeah, it's not always epic and fireworks, but just getting some time to be close with her is all I really need.

163 comments:

  1. Love this. Wonderful! Nice to see tha man himself hanging around here. :)

    ReplyDelete
  2. Great post, Han. Thank you for dropping by.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Love it!! We all know Han would be great in the sack....Any man that good with his hands on the Falcon would be great in bed *wink wink* He also told Leia that he could get her excited if he had enough time too....LOL!!

    By the way I'm new here! Watched the OT in theaters, fell in love with Han/Leia and my shipper heart was reignited with the release of TFA DVD. Anyone else got it yet?? There is some beautiful behind the scenes footage - Harrison and Carrie hugging, Han giving Leia a kiss we didn't see (why did that get cut??!!), Harrison Ford's last day on set, cut scene of Han being taken by stormtroopers, and cut scene of Leia leading the Resistance. It's a Han/Leia fan goldmine!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hmm, I'm torn. I wasn't going to buy the DVD because JJ's comments about Han and Leia having such a bad marriage and being such bad parents they turned Ben to the Dark Side, BUT I do really want to see the deleted Han/Leia kiss and the deleted Han/Leia dialogue and Leia's cut scene. I heard Harrison and Carrie are adorable in it too. Argh...maybe it'll be online somewhere soon?

      Delete
    2. I'm not really interested in giving Disney another dime by buying TFA dvd, but that's just me. I think any of the behind the scene footage of Harrison and Carrie stuff is just'them', not Han and Leia, so it doesn't help dislodge the knife in my back for what Disney/JJ did to the beautiful love story and character development that George gave us, lol. And if i'm not mistaken, Han's 'kiss' is him just touching his lips to her hair in their final hug(you can see that on Wookieekisses/tumblr...

      Delete
    3. I know there's a cut Han/Leia scene of them discussing Ben that didn't make it into TFA. And a deleted Leia scene of her leading the Resistance. I might buy it just to get those tidbits and also there's a tribute to Han Solo and Harrison Ford giving a speech about his character I'm interested in. But going to fastforward through the Han and Leia had a bad marriage and were bad parents by JJ crap.

      Delete
    4. The comments really aren't that bad. Adam does say that Kylo fell to the Dark Side because his parents abandoned him, but I felt like that was just what KYLO thinks, no what actually happened. Carrie's opinion that Han and Leia wouldn't have worked is just her opinion. JJ never says that Han and Leia had a terrible marriage, he just says they're very different people with different natures. Trust me, it's worth it for the extra features. There is a ton of Han/Leia deleted footage that didn't make it into the movie. The kiss is worth it!!!

      Delete
    5. Thank you, DawnMac. That's just how I would've said it.

      Delete
    6. The scenes are cool to hear about. Would have been nice if they hadn't cut those. But as it is, not sure I'll be rushing out to buy it. Probably not enough to get me excited. ;)

      Delete
    7. I won't be buying. My husband continually teases me, telling me I won't be able to resist. But I am not tempted at all. Which is totally depressing in and of itself...

      Delete
    8. I can understand that. I'm feeling that way too. What a bummer.

      Delete
    9. Although I may have to buy it for the kids and eventually will watch it again.

      Delete
    10. As a completionist of sorts, I have the patience to wait until all three are out and I can buy the box set of them then. Strictly for the grandkids (future grandkids - I don't have any of those yet).

      Delete
    11. I don't think I'll buy if the deleted Han/Leia stuff leaks online. I'll wait to see if that happens. I do love Harrison/Carrie behind the scenes stuff so I do want to see that.

      The problem with Adam Driver and JJ saying Han and Leia were bad parents is that everyone is taking their word at face value. If you google Han and Leia now the first 10 articles that pop up are "Han and Leia were really bad parents". No one is looking at it from "It's only how Kylo Ren views it" perspective, so yeah. I feel like their reputations are ruined regardless.

      Delete
    12. Here's a cute article of Harrison complimenting Carrie http://www.inquisitr.com/2958110/why-carrie-fisher-hated-her-first-day-filming-star-wars-the-force-awakens/

      Delete
    13. Hey DawnMac, I'm another resurrected shipper! TFA triggered a marathon viewing of all the other Star Wars movies. Then my heart was irreparably broken watching the OT, falling in love with this awesome couple and their subsequent destruction at the hands of Disney/JJA.

      I love hearing your take on the DVD comments! Very interesting! Thanks for sharing. Oh, but I can't spend too much time thinking about TFA as it leaves me incredibly sad and depressed. I made the mistake of reading a bit of the preview for the TFA novel on google books. I then had to go crawl into a corner and ugly cry for hours then read a bunch of fluffy fanfic just to function!

      Delete
  4. Thank you so much for this. A perfect tonic. I love how he has to stress the point that they've been together 25 years (and don't let anyone tell you different). Yeah like dweeby film directors whose initials are JJA who wouldn't know characterisation of the Big 3 if it bit him on the ass!

    Thanks, Han, for putting things straight ;)

    ReplyDelete
  5. I have a few questions for Han (and yes, seconding claire1976 in thanking him for clarifying the National Enquirer-style misinformation that's been going around out there about his marriage. Glad to hear it is rock solid):

    First, what do you think are words we most overuse when writing you? I have to say that I have written the words "work-roughened" about a million times. I'm starting to worry that in my head you must regularly dip your hands in battery acid, because your hands are so "work-worn" or "work-roughened" in my writing that it's getting embarrassing. Oh, and "smirk". There are not enough synonyms in the world for "smirk."

    Second: should we drop "g"'s when we write you or not? I've noticed, General Solo, that sometimes in the films you're "thinkin'" and sometimes you're "thinking" and I'm never sure what the standard should be...(Seriously, my fellow fanfic writers, I never know what to do here. Dialect-y stuff makes me uncomfortable and I never know whether to use it).

    Thanks again for dropping by...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Han says most of the overused words are flattering, so he is ok with them. It's not like he didn't already know his grin was lopsided. Some of the overused terms, including the work-roughened hands, are in the Super Sex Stud post.

      As for dropping Gs or not, I think just like in the movies, sometimes yes, sometimes no. If you overdo it, it's probably just going to get annoying for your reader. But sometimes it's appropriate.

      Delete
    2. For what it's worth, I drop Han's Gs all the time. Just a personal preference, and I can "hear" his voice much better when I read through the story.

      Delete
    3. OMG, I died laughing reading this response Kels! That was fabulous. I tend to notice it much more when authors drop 'g's which as a reader tends to be more distracting.

      The over-use of "work-roughened" anything cracks me up, but c'mon "smirk" and Han Solo should be synonyms. It seems to perfectly capture his general air of insolence!

      Delete
  6. thank you Han, for stopping by and clearing up a lot of erroneous crap that's being spread around about you two lately :)

    ReplyDelete
  7. Thanks, Han! It's always nice hearing from you. :-)

    ReplyDelete
  8. Omg, with Harrison on the background it is like Han took over the blog. :) Nice.

    Great post. Always love hearing Han's side. Just curious about people's take on how much of a dog Han was before he met Leia? I kind of waffle because looking like he does, I'm sure he had ample opportunity. And I'm sure once he met Leia he probably was waiting for her. (Omg, could you imagine how all that frustration probably fed into their fights?) But did he really have much time to sleep around before then? Or that careless if always on the run? Was he a bit pickier as he matured? Just curious.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I kind of feel that fanfic version you see of Han being a total horn dog and banging every chick he sees pre ANH (and between ANH and ESB) is more of a woman's fantasy of seeing Han as this sex god. I'm sure he had plenty of experience, but I don't see a situation where he has a different girl every night. We never really see him interact with another woman than Leia, so this whole "Han is a serial womanizer" seems to be more head canon that anything. I think if a hot woman came up to him in a cantina, he'd probably go for it like most men, but I don't think he'd be actively searching it out every night.

      Question, what do people think about Han hooking up with other women inbetween ANH and ESB? I found it interesting in the old EU Legends they make it clear he wasn't doing that because of his feelings for Leia, while in a lot of Corellian Embassy fanfics they have him doing half the female Rebellion and every woman he runs into (lots of "Spacer Sue" fics on that site too). My personal head canon is that he may have hooked up with a few women on various missions when he was away from Leia, but he wasn't disrespectful enough to hook up with another woman in front of her. I also think that at least a year before they got together he stopped his external activities just because she was all her really wanted.

      Delete
    2. I don't see Han as ever being a total horn dog. I think he was extremely successful with the ladies and as a young, young man probably got in lots of practice and wasn't too picky. But as he matured, he became more discerning. And later, as mentioned above, smuggling and his lifestyle wasn't conducive to just dropping his pants anytime, anywhere. With age, his respect for women grew as well, IMHO.

      I wouldn't say his love life immediately dried up upon meeting Leia but I think he was discreet and eventually found himself holding out for her - maybe before he realized what he was doing. Like Chewie probably had to tell him and it went something like this:

      "ARRGH, ARGH, AH!"
      "What?! What do you mean I'm whipped?"
      "AH, AH, ARGH."
      "The Princess? Get out of this galaxy. You're crazy."
      "ARGHHHHH, ARGH."
      "Well, I wouldn't say that."
      "Argh?"
      "...."
      "ARGH, AH, ARGH!"
      "Who asked you anyway?"

      All just my 2 cents, though. :-)

      Delete
    3. Thanks, Ewokkey and Push. Just wondering. I could see someone that good looking not turn anything down. But I like the description if someone came up to him in a cantina he might not say no especially if wouldn't cause him trouble. I agree that he probably wouldn't flaunt things in front of Leia. And especially not as we get closer to ESB and the more he fell. Oh could you imagine if he had flaunted it in front of her? You know like well before ESB? Plot bunny maybe? :)

      Omg, Push, you're killing me. That was great! I bet Chewie is reminding Han 25 years later he's still whipped. At least there was one thing good that came out of TFA. Chewie is still alive. And dude, Han is STILL distracting on the background. He's like staring at me. I love it. ;)

      Delete
    4. Haha yeah, I always felt Chewie knew how Han felt before Han would admit it to himself.

      amara, there's a scene in Allegiance in the old EU where Han flirts with a Rebel pilot in front of Leia, purely to make her jealous. It works and Leia storms off. Then Han feels guilty just for flirting, which is really funny since it's only a year after ANH and he doesn't really owe anything to Leia. I thought that was interesting :) There's also a comic where Han gets super jealous when Leia goes off to meet an ex-boyfriend to try to convince him to join the Rebellion.

      Delete
    5. Nice on the comic. Which one was that about the old boyfriend? I think I might have read that one. Not as big into comics though. Can't figure out why. Just not my thing, but do enjoy the art in them. But the SW Infinities for ANH and ESB were awesome.

      Delete
    6. I definitely never saw Han as a "womanizer" because that is such a negative term that I think goes along with a man having some disdain for the women. I just don't see that from Han. And being an attractive male who doesn't have trouble getting women into bed doesn't make one a womanizer.

      Aside from going overboard with Bria, I thought the old EU did a decent job with his romantic history. He had some girlfriends, nothing super serious even though he liked them and liked spending time with them. Would he turn down the advances of an attractive woman? If he wasn't otherwise attached at the time, I don't see why he would. I also don't see him as one of those guys who would go out to bars specifically on the mission to score women.

      Delete
    7. amara z Ewokkey, Push, and Zyra: YES! The million dollar question, or at least one that I have been wondering myself. I had been playing this through my mind back and forth and have come to the same conclusion that many of your have - that Han was probably not a "womanizer" in the conventional sense, nor a horndog looking for action in every corner of the galaxy. Good-looking guys always have opportunities. Just because a good looking guy takes up some of the offers he's getting its not the same as the aggressive pursuit of sexual conquest that we tend to associate with womanizers. That said, he's popular enough with the ladies that he knows he's attractive and can probably be quite charming if he wanted to be.

      I imagine something similar to what Push and Zyra said - I see him being much more open and less jaded as a younger man, which would be more conducive to experimentation. And I agree, by the time he's hardened and deep into smuggling he's probably pickier, but also so much more suspicious of anyone besides chewie that indiscriminately being with women would be less likely.

      I'm also of the opinion that he probably had a few ladies in the three years between ANH and ESB. Again, not that he would initiate anything. Honestly I don't see him at this point going out looking for other women, but I can totally see him getting some offers and being approached. I do like the idea that as he starts falling more and more for Leia that without even being aware of it he projects as not being available or open to other women, and so perhaps those offers tend to dry up and he doesn't particularly mind because at that point he has other priorities! And, I agree with Ewokkey that he likely be very discreet and not flaunt anything that happened to Leia. I don't believe he'd do anything on base and if anything happened it would be off-planet and purely based on opportunity and circumstance. That said, while I don't think he'd flaunt any actual flings, I can also see Han teasing Leia about his attractiveness to other women between ANH to ESB. Not, in the way I sometimes read it in fanfics, where he's sexually harassing her (perhaps a product of their time, but not attractive in present day) but a few well placed jabs when she insults him enough to remind her that other women DO find him very attractive.

      Delete
    8. Yeah, womanizer implies something kind of sleazy and not respecting of women. I don't see Han being one of those douchebags who goes to the cantina to pick up women. We don't see him try to charm Leia when he meets her, even though she's obviously a beautiful woman he's attracted to. I think given how good looking Harrison Ford is, he probably had his share of women coming onto him, and he probably went along if the opportunity arose, but he didn't really go out of his way to find it. I also could see him doing a friends with benefits casual arrangement with a fellow pilot or smuggler where they hooked up when it was convenient.

      After ANH, I don't really buy the fanfics that have him doing all the attractive female Rebels. I just think he'd 1) not want to mix up work and pleasure and 2) not want it to get back to Leia that he was a man whore and ruin any chance he'd have with her, because she'd just assume she was another fling. I think if Han had been off seducing various Rebel women, Leia wouldn't give him the time of day when he tried to express an interest in her, because she'd have no time for being another notch in his belt.

      Delete
    9. I like that LoveThis about Han projecting he was unavailable. That's a nice way to put it and makes sense. Maybe something he never consciously did and like you said opportunities dried up. Or they knew the Princess was into him and didn't feel like crossing her and getting beaten up by the last Princess of Alderaan. ;) Sorry having images of Leia in a cat fight over Han. That's just bad, but funny.

      I kind of think Leia's hesitancy about Han was a fear of being another notch in his belt. I think she would genuinely be worried what exactly he was after. And how much did he express to her beforehand? I.e. how open was he with how he felt and my guess is not very much. Not until after the rescue from Jabba's. I don't think she knew how much he cared until around that time, but I'm open to other opinions on that. I think there was affection there, but just not overly expressed yet. So makes me wonder how much did they know about each other before ESB? Were they sort of friends but not much depth or knowledge of each other? They certainly got to know each other on the way to Bespin would be my guess. But how much did they risk emotionally before then? Thoughts?

      Delete
    10. OMG amara z, I would LOVE to read a fic with Leia getting in to a cat fight over her man! That would be so much fun! (I admit, I am a sucker for Jealous! Leia.)

      And while I agree with Ewokkey that I have a harder time believing fanfic that has Han hooking up with chicks on Rebel bases, I also agree with amara z that Leia most likely did hesitate to indulge in her feelings for Han because she thought she might just be either another notch on a belt or some passing curiosity to be experienced and passed on. And he didn't even need to refer to his sexual history for her to think that (I can imagine Leia making a lot of assumptions.) I think his refusals to join the rebels were enough for her to wonder about his ability to commit to anything (or anyone!) I don't see Han being the type who "talks about his feelings" especially early on (maybe a little more later post ROTJ.) I'm sure he was fighting his own feelings toward her too, so he probably did a lot of covering, both to hide from her, but also hide from himself!

      I also wonder how much they knew of each other before ESB and how their building attraction played out. We get so many different interpretations through fanfic, and so many of them seem plausible when written well! I could be made to believe anything, but I love them best when they're written dancing around each other, flirting by not flirting (or arguing) and slowly getting caught up in each other before ESB.

      Delete
    11. Thanks. :) I think there is one book where Leia did beat the tar out of some girl, but cause the girl was snarky. I think Shadows of Mindor, but Claire or Zyra probably remember. But omg, that would be hilarious! I think plot bunnies like me, but I have more bunnies than time and energy.

      No doubt on Leia making assumptions. I could see that too. One look at Han and you probably expect trouble. ;) Oh, good one on him hiding from himself. I bet she had him wanting to pull his hair out from time to time. Could you see Han in the hold of the Falcon beating his head against the dejarik table going "why her, why her, why her"? :)

      Delete
    12. You are bang on, it was Shadows of Mindor, and Leia floors this red headed woman. It says something about how Han thought she never looked more beautiful than when she's beating the crap out of someone, or something like that :)

      It's late, I don't know why I'm still up.

      Delete
    13. That's what I thought it was. :) Do you remember why Leia beat her up?

      Delete
    14. I'm not sure, but I THINK she was just jealous, but could be wrong. Oh wait, actually I think this woman calls Leia a name and it doesn't go down too well. Yeah, pretty sure it was that.

      Delete
    15. Ah, gotcha. Now I may have to go look just to do it. :) I didn't think it was quite jealousy. Or I could just go check out the book review. Hee hee!

      Delete
    16. Oh my god! That's the review I read where not only does she clock the redhead, but Han's consciously tries to avoid giving Leia the impression he's flirting. I am totally going to go out and get this book now!

      Delete
    17. The woman calls Leia Princess Kissyface. And Leia does NOT like it :) I'm sure this is quoted exactly in the review for Shadows of Mindor. Han also says something later about how Leia wouldn't have hit her so hard if she hadn't been flirting or something, and Leia says "I hope I broke her nose."

      Delete
    18. Yep, that was it. :) I had to go back and look. Still need to read that book. Leia did admit she was a little jealous, but I'm sure it's funny any time Leia is knocking the snot out of someone. She's so tiny!

      Delete
    19. Ah yes, that's it, Princess Kissyface. I thought it was Princess something, but couldn't remember. Definitely recommend the book, Amara, it's one of the best ones from the old EU. Lots of cute moments.

      Delete
    20. It's implied that Leia is jealous of her because she sort of flirts with Han, and then she calls Leia Princess KissyFace, haha. There's also a great scene where the redheaded woman is trying to flirt with Han and Han thinks that he shouldn't flirt back, and then thinks "No more redheads. He'd had enough of THAT trouble to last a lifetime" (obvious reference to Bria Tharen, LOL).

      I'd love to read a fic of Han running into one of his cantina girls that's referenced in A Princess, a Smuggler and a Farmboy where Han has this girl in his lap right before he meets Luke after he's already with Leia. Would be funny/awkward!

      Delete
    21. Oh Ewokkey, it's like you've read my mind! I've been thinking about that exact scenario for quite some time! All of the Lulz on that. I've even had a scenario for how it might play out, but have not yet crossed the line from fanfic reader to writer… maybe I might…? Maybe a new fanfic challenge so I won't be alone in my efforts? I'd love to read what others come up with!

      Delete
    22. So I'm reading Shadows of Mindor right now. (Okay, actually skimming it for the Han and Leia moments.) But yes, it's awesome!

      Delete
  9. Yeah! This is a great topic (a very important and serious topic - ha!) and so much more fun to think about than TFA! I have thoughts, but will have to come back and add some to the discussion later!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  10. Well, some more good news. Pablo Hidalgo is definitely not on board the "It's all Han and Leia's fault Ben went Dark" train.

    Pablo Hidalgo ‏@pablohidalgo
    You know, there is a version where Kylo isn't Han and Leia's fault. And that's if he's an awful shit.

    Pablo Hidalgo ‏@pablohidalgo
    Actually, that was flippant. There is a version where Kylo isn't Han and Leia's fault. And that's if you believe in personal accountability.

    Pablo Hidalgo ‏@pablohidalgo
    "Poor Kylo was lonely." / Rey is raised by sand. Doesn't become murderer.

    Eleven-ThirtyEight ‏@eleventhirtyate
    @pablohidalgo Kylo turns at 25: his fault. Kylo turns at 15: different story. I don't think we know enough yet.

    Brian ‏@LaneWinree
    @eleventhirtyate @pablohidalgo I think it's still safe to say that 15 year olds are generally aware that homicide = bad

    Pablo Hidalgo ‏@pablohidalgo
    @LaneWinree @eleventhirtyate Maybe it's like a certain superhero movie where someone needs to kill someone to understand it's bad.

    He also retweeted my tweet "Finn - kidnapped as a child and raised to be nothing but a faceless soldier. Grows up to be kind, compassionate hero" and "A 29 year old blaming his parents screams entitled millennial."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I was wondering about that. I figured it was Adam Driver's backstory/motivation - the impression of a kid who has 2 dynamic parents (both committed to the Rebellion or whatever it was called after), and maybe Snoke's taunting of "your parents dumped you with your Uncle Luke because they have no time for you, etc . . ." when really, they were just trying to help save him from Snoke's influence, which backfired. I mean, I can remember stuff one way when I was a kid, then you ask my mom and she'll say it was another.

      Delete
    2. Yeah, I just wish more people saw it as Kylo's perspective, not absolute fact. If you google Han and Leia now a million articles of "Han and Leia were really bad parents and it's their fault Kylo turned Dark!" come up. Ugh, thanks for ruining my childhood heroes JJ.

      Well, at least it doesn't seem like the books/comics are going down that route, as I have no interest in reading about Han being a deadbeat dad and Leia being a workaholic who totally neglects her family.

      Delete
    3. I like that part about personal accountability.

      Lol, RubyRed. No doubt. I've seen that as well. I know some events from my twenties and different stories are told based on who you talk to. :)

      Delete
    4. After I tweeted abut how Kylo is the only main SW character we know who was lucky enough to be raised by biological parents who loved him, and unlike the Rey and Finn, grew up in privilege, some Reylo shipper tried to argue with me (didn't answer back, because no point in getting into arguments over twitter.) She was like "How do you know that Han and Leia loved him?" Um, excuse me? How could you watch the OT and think that Han and Leia are the kind of people who wouldn't love THEIR OWN CHILD? I also tweeted that he had the love of his Uncle Luke and Uncle Chewie, in addition to his parents, and this Reylo shipper was like "How do you know Luke and Chewie loved him?" Again, what kind of person could watch the OT and think that Luke would not love his sister's only child, or Chewie wouldn't love his best friend's child? I know most Reylo shippers were never fans of SW until the ST, but did some of them just not watch the OT at all?

      Another Reylo shipper was like "Kylo had selfish absent parents. His childhood was just as traumatic as Rey and Finn's." Yeah, having parents who had careers is so much more traumatic that having no one to raise you or being kidnapped as a child from your family!

      I also wonder if there's an element of sexism/racism going on - Kyo is the only white male character, so fanboys see him as a hero more than they would see Rey or Finn as heroes, because they can relate to him. Shipper fangirls see Kylo as the love interest with Rey, because Hollywood has traditionally avoided interracial romances.

      Some other Kylo fanboy was like "As someone who grew up with abusive parents who turned me into the way I am today, I completely understand now why Kylo went to the Dark Side." Han and Leia are abusive now? Thanks JJ, for ruining Han and Leia for the next generation of SW fans and turning them into villains.

      Delete
    5. They probably haven't seen the OT, lol. Or grew up with it like some of us did. Ah, well. Life experience gives you a different perspective. Be funny to remind them of what they said twenty years from now. :) Sorry if snarky. Just funny when people make assumptions.

      Delete
  11. So after reading Lucas' quote on Han and Leia's future, I feel like JJ must have read it and been like "F--- you George Lucas, I'll do completely the opposite! Because it's almost like he's quoting from it when he says what Han WOULDN'T do.

    The Lucas quote is:

    The exact quote by Lucas is:

    “Han and Leia probably did get married,” Lucas conceded. “They settled down. She became a senator, and they got a nice little house with a white picket fence. Han Solo is out there cooking burgers on the grill. Is that a movie? I don’t think so.”

    And JJ's (Jar Jar Adams) quotes on Han are: "I couldn't see Han Solo settling down and being complacent." and:

    "To put a character like Han Solo at home with the kids and a white picket fence would be a betrayal of his character."

    It's like he's trying to thumb his nose at Lucas deliberately!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Love the Jar Jar Abrams thing :) But why does he think falling in love and having a family makes someone complacent? See, it just goes to show what we've known all along - they got Han all wrong. He was a loner by circumstance and then he found his place. Thanks for the quote.

      Delete
    2. JJ can only see Han as ANH Han, his childhood hero. He's like the fanboy who wants to relive his childhood fantasies and see Han as a manchild who never grows up like Indiana Jones or James Bond. Fortunately, Lucas got him right!

      Delete
    3. I didn't like everything Lucas did, but all is forgiven now. I'd like nothing more than to have him back and declare Abrams mess non canon!

      Delete
    4. Loner by circumstance really nails it ReallyRubyRed Simon.

      I just can't get over how much Han loves Leia in ROTJ. Sure, Harrison's only halfheartedly acting in the movie and his character is sort of there more for comic relief, but he is still constantly concerned about her safety and thinking of her well-being. Even when he's upset on the bridge after Leia won't tell him what happened with her and Luke he still turns back and apologizes. I don't think he's snarky to or argues with Leia at all in the film aside from that scene with Leia in the Ewok village.

      I just can't believe that guy in ROTJ would have such a hard time being settled. Maybe some difficulty adjusting, but in his heart I'd imagine he'd want it very much.

      So yeah, can we get Lucas back? Please?

      Delete
  12. Thank you for the feel-good guest post. Love it. Also, that picture of Harrison? Goodness, gracious, that is one Sexiest Man Alive!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I want to shave that beard for him. :) But man those eyes are killing me. Especially every time I'm typing a comment. Whew!

      Delete
    2. Harrison Ford's eyes are incredible. All through the OT, especially the Mos Eisley cantina scene and throughout Echo Base you see how totally changeable and gorgeous they are. Yet another thing that "Young Han Solo" in the spin off movie is going to have to live up to. It won't be easy (more likely impossible.)

      Delete
  13. Rogue One Trailer: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wji-BZ0oCwg

    Well at least we know now Bria Tharen didn't start the Rebellion and steal the Death Star plans lol.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I have to confess, I was a teeny weeny bit worried that they were actually going to use Bria, and that Felicity Jones was playing her. I mean with the huge kick in the teeth we had from TFA why not piss off Han and Leia fans even more and decide to use one the absolute worst bits of the EU.

      Thank the Force they didn't.

      Delete
    2. Though, I'm worried that when the new Han Solo movie gives Han a love interest (which they definitely will), even if she's just an Indy girl, there will be a million fan girls writing fics about how she's really the love of Han's life and fics about Han running into her when he's separated from Leia and getting back together with her. Sigh. It's a rough time to be a H/L fan :(

      Delete
    3. Okay, so I just looked on twitter and there are a bunch of Legends fanboys crying bitter tears because they were convinced Felicity Jones was playing Bria Tharen. I actually kind of laughed over that. At least one good thing came out of the old EU being wiped out.

      Delete
    4. Oh ugh. That would have been the worst. Anybody intrigued by the trailer though? Interesting to see Mon. And I'm kind of curious now. It might not suck.

      Delete
    5. Oh one of the few things I can celebrate about the EU becoming legends is the disappearance of Bria Tharen! To be honest I feel it makes sense to have a younger Han have someone around his late teens that he kind of "falls" for, and that the experience disillusions him and hurts him. Not that it would be anything serious like the REAL love of his life, but it's common to have some kind of romance in your teen years that you think is such a big deal in the moment, but actually isn't once you're older and look back. But ugh-Bria-ugh... that was way too much and overboard. I'm so glad Rogue One is Bria free!

      Delete
    6. Can we all agree on how dead on the casting of Mon Mothma is on Rogue One? I had to do a double to make sure that isn't actually Caroline Blakiston (original actress).

      Delete
    7. Agreed LoveThis, Bria interfered way too much with the H/L relationship. I am totally fine with Han having numerous flings and girlfriends before Leia - he was like 30 when he met her - but she was implied to have influenced every conversation he has with Leia and basically all his actions over the OT. The author of the book even says that it's because of Bria's memory that he signs up to be a General in ROTJ. That action was supposed to be about Han learning to be part of the whole and formally committing to Leia, not because of a dead former love. Ugh. And making Bria the reason Han says "I know" in ESB also makes her WAY too important. That moment stood on its own without it being Han thinkinf of a past love!

      Delete
    8. Whaaat? Ewokkey, that is why I have not read the Han Solo trilogy books and after reading reviews here I would have a hard time getting through them. That author must be hitting the crack pipe a little too hard.

      I actually wouldn't mind Han having a teenaged "first love." I mean, it's really common at that age and usually not based on the kind of deep connection and attachment you see between him and Leia. And it actually makes sense that this person should either abandon him or betray his trust. But, from what I can tell the Bria thing is just way overboard. That's crazy talk for sure.

      Delete
    9. The author passed away a few years ago, so I feel kind of bad saying bad things about her, but it was obvious in interviews and chatting with her on message boards that she wrote herself as Bria in the HST books. It's kind of annoying because this is the kind of thing that female writers are stereotyped for and that legitimate female writers fight against when they are trying to get book deals in a traditionally male dominated sphere. I dealt with her a lot in RASSM and she also trolled some Han/Leia message boards about how Bria was the love of Han's life and Leia was just a second choice and rebound, and how the entire time Han was with Leia, he was always thinking about Bria. Whatever, the other books didn't really follow this idea because in the five books written between ANH and ESB from Han's POV, Bria never comes up in his thoughts once. And it's pretty clear from Han's thoughts on Leia in the post ROTJ books he considers Leia to be the love of his life, not Bria.

      The books are actually pretty well written but if Bria bothers you, I would not bother reading them because she is about 50% of the pages on it.

      Delete
  14. I second all of you wishing to get George back; can you Twitter him or something?...at least to tell him how much we miss him, lol

    ReplyDelete
  15. Reading this article now makes me sad: http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2008/05/frank-digiaco-3

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh my. Yes, totally depressing because 1) TFA comes to pass and deals with Han and Leia's future miserably - they should be happy and together dammit! 2) They're actually going to try to cast another actor as a "young Han Solo" - which has me shaking my head in the utter futility of even attempting to try to fill that role with anyone else but Harrison Ford!

      Delete
  16. Some more Pablo tweets where he definitely appears to be on Han/Leia's side and against the "Leia having a career makes her a bad mother" train:

    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/han-and-leia-in-the-eu-a-discussion-thread.50038703/page-22

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wow, I'm out of town for a few days and I come back to Pablo basically saying to JJ Abrams and his headcanon, "yeah, uh, thanks, we'll take it from here."

      Delete
  17. A lot of people are speculating that Rey is Han and Jyn Erso's daughter: http://www.bustle.com/articles/152919-is-jyn-erso-reys-mom-in-rogue-one-a-star-wars-story-heres-what-we-know Do you guys think that's possible?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If Jyn steals the death star plans AND hooks up with Han she's like Bria Tharen 2.0! LOL, but seriously, I really doubt they'll go there and I'm incredibly cynical of Disney. For the timeline to work, Han would be cheating on Leia, since we know they didn't split up until Ben massacred the Jedi at 23 or older. And I really doubt Disney is going to make their heroine the result of an OT hero cheating on his wife and having an out of wedlock child.

      Interesting the article mentions that Han and Jyn are going to run into each other in the next installment. Are they talking about the Young Han Solo movie? I thought that took place way before Rogue One.

      Delete
    2. I know that I have been the most pessimistic about these movies moving forward, but I give this theory about a zero percent chance of being true. There is just pretty much no way they would do that. If Rey is connected to only one character that we know and love, it is going to be a Force sensitive one, not Han. Only way she is Han's is if she is also Leia's. But I still think that is also doubtful.

      Every single new character we are going to be introduced to, there will be a hundred theories on how they are connected to everyone else. Just prepare yourselves for that.

      Delete
    3. Well, Daisy and Pablo have both confirmed that Rey isn't Han and Leia's. I still think she's Luke's, and now I really want her to be so the Reylo shippers that have taken over everywhere can go away LOL.

      Yeah, remember the rumours that Finn was Han and Sana Solo's son that Han cheated on Leia with? Or Poe was the result of an affair between Leia and Major Emmett while Han was in carbonite? People always want everyone to be related to someone important in Star Wars.

      Delete
  18. Uh... so I had a thought. Since the topic is Han Solo's sex life... what do all of you think about fanfic that suggest that he might have um, utilized the services of prostitutes? It's been implied or outright stated in some stories I've read.

    Realistic? True to character or not?

    I feel like I see this in older fic (much less so in recent stories.) My own take on it is that 1) I can appreciate fanfic with all sorts of different interpretations of the characters but 2) Given the EU back story for Han I kind of can't see it really happening. It's kind of like "womanizer" or "Horndog" Han portrayal... I can respect it when a fic writer wants to go there, but it often doesn't ring true to my own interpretation of the character. I'd kind of see Han feeling the same toward prostitution as he does towards slaves. Just kind of disgusted, not necessarily at the prostitute, but at any system that exploits and devalues sentient life for profit. (Is this just my feminist 2016 version of Han? Because in my head canon Han is also all about consent as well, because you know, it just isn't fun if the lady isn't totally into it and him. Plus I could see Han feeling like he doesn't need to pay anyone to have sex with him. He could get it for free if he wanted!)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think the Han uses prostitutes head canon comes from Han having a wench in his lap in the ANH novelization. If prostitution is like the Firefly universe where the "escorts" are like unionized and fully self sufficient and are not being exploited then I don't think Han would have a problem with it. If it's like in today's world where most of them are drug addicts, being exploited by their pimps and dependent I don't think Han's moral compass would let him do it, even in pre ANH days.

      Delete
    2. I don't know if I've ever read a story that alluded to Han using prostitutes. I mean, would someone like him even need to resort to that? I could be wrong, I see men who use prostitutes as not having much respect for women and they really don't like women all that much. Han has never struck me as being someone like that. I also just don't think of him as ever needing it so badly that he would resort to that. He'd probably do just fine without having to pay for it. Same surely goes for consent. Why would someone like Han Solo have to force things with a woman who wasn't interested when surely it wouldn't take him long to find someone who was?

      Delete
    3. Amirite!?! I remember reading a few fics that had Han with paid company, or at least suggesting it. Not many, but they're out there. Every time I read one I get this dumbstruck feeling, like it's so out of place.

      There's one set before ANH, where Han is watching the Holonet and Leia is either confirmed or sworn in as a Senator, and he's in a bar with Chewie and a bar lady. The bar lady is upset because she's a bit jealous of how fascinated Han is with the broadcast and Chewie jokes that she shouldn't be jealous because he pays for her. I was like.... "Whaaaaa? - Han Solo doesn't need to pay a woman to spend time with him! His hotness is enough!" (LOL.)

      Then there was another fic I read where he's with Leia (I think set during Truce at Bakura) a missing moment type of scene with the inflatable pillows and it comes out in the conversation that "in port" he'd go to the woman's place for a tryst and Leia is embarrassed when she realizes what kind of woman he was talking about... I was all... "Um, wait I don't understand what kind of woman!?! Is the author referring to... prostitutes!?!"

      Anyway, I started reading Razor's Edge. There is SO MUCH Han and Leia in it. All of the love for this book and the feels between them! There's this one bit where Luke compares Han in his mind to a former pet of Biggs Darklighter, a half-wild and abused pet anooba that needed to be handled delicately with much care before it stopped snapping at everyone. The Han portrayed in Razor's Edge would not have a girlfriend in every port, would he? He'd be too suspicious of any women who showed interest, and would probably have been extremely picky, not just in terms of attractiveness, but also in terms of being able to deduce that they weren't a threat.

      Delete
    4. Razor's Edge is awesome. It takes place in the old Legends timeline so according to that canon the reason Han doesn't pursue Leia is because he's still heartbroken over Bria Tharen. I think that's what Luke was referring to about the "abused pet" analogy. I still find it weird she never comes up in his thoughts though during this time period if she was the sole reason he didn't make a move on Leia. In the HST he was portrayed more as a one woman man and never really as a womanizer. He had girlfriends but his heart always belonged to Bria for 10 years.

      In the new canon though he's definitely a "girl in every port" kind of guy. In the new ANH novelization he's thinking about all the girls he has in different ports and how he can't keep them straight LOL.

      But yeah I don't see him as trying out prostitutes. It bugs me in TV series like Game of Thrones they make it out like the brothel is some awesome place to work and all the prostitutes just love having sex with the men they get paid to have sex with.

      Delete
    5. Oh yeah... Legends vs. Canon: so many storylines, so little time!

      I didn't think that Luke's thoughts referred to Bria specifically in Razor's Edge. To me it seemed to more about how difficult Han's life was before we meet him in ANH and how much disappointment and hardship he might have experienced. I mean, I guess it could have been about Bria or any woman who might have hurt him, but to me as a reader it's not what initially came to mind. I definitely can't see this Han, who is deeply distrustful of other people randomly hooking up with women. I'm still meh on Bria. I also can't buy Han pining away for a her for 10 years. Ugh to that!

      I guess I have to read the new canon, if only to compare the differences in Han's portrayal between the two timelines. I still don't know if I can imagine Han as a "womanizer" type, even if he gets around a lot in the new canon! As mentioned before I'd see it as different if he's just popular with the ladies (because he's hot!) vs. actually trying to keep a running competition with himself to see how many girls he can bag (cuz that would be sleazy.) In some ways a lucky with the ladies Han is more fun and less fundamentally damaged than Legends Han who is paranoid and distrusts everyone. But, I don't know, I have to go read the books and then get back to you!

      Delete
    6. My take: no way a man as good looking (and broke) as Han Solo would spend money on sex. If he wanted to get some, he would get it free and spend the money on a game of sabacc.

      Delete
    7. Yeah, I fall between Crispin's one woman man and fanfic womanizer Han. I think he had plenty of dalliances, and probably had several "friends with benefits" things going on. I don't think him being distrustful is mutually exclusive with him randomly hooking up with women though - I think he'd be fine with a no strings attached hook up, it's when it starts to get more serious he'd bail and run.

      I disagree with the HST interpretation that Han is cynical in HST because he just had the love of his life die. I think he's cynical because he had a heart life, and that involved closing his heart off to everyone except Chewie. I mean, he probably had a few girlfriends, some semi-serious before Leia. But I don't think he gave his heart to anyone before her. Although I guess we'll see what the Young Han Solo movie does.

      Delete
    8. Yeah, I can't see Han and prostitutes either. No way he couldn't find it for free. And agree with Zyra it would be against his moral compass. He's going to pay a woman for sex, but rescue a Wookiee from being beaten or killed? Yeah doesn't jive for me.

      Delete
  19. So I keep getting told by non Han/Leia fans that I'm interpreting Leia's line in TFA "No matter how much we fought I always hated seeing you leave wrong and that there is only one way to interpret it - that Han would leave after he and Leia fought and then he'd be gone long enough to make her miss him and then he'd come back. Basically I was told I'm an idiot for thinking Leia was referring missing him for work because Leia clearly links the fighting and linking in her line. How did you guys interpret the line?

    Sample post below of how all the non H/L fans seem to see it:

    I don't think the TFA dialog meant to reference that. The dialog clearly has them talking about their marriage:

    LEIA: No matter how much we fought, I've always hated watching you leave. (said in the same sentence, so it means their fights ended up with Han leaving)
    HAN: That's why I did it. So you'd miss me. (He'd leave to make Leia miss him so they can kiss and make up when he returns).

    And there's of course the definitive:

    HAN: It wasn't all bad, was it? Huh? Some of it was...good. (most of their marriage was bad)
    Can't believe people are still parsing this dialog to mean other things, especially with what the writer has said about their marriage in the TFA documentary. Han would leave for work so Leia would miss him? That doesn't make any sense. Leia talks about how much they fought then talks about Han leaving for work? That's incoherent.

    You'd have to ignore the "It wasn't all bad" line to try to come up with other radically different interpretations to this dialog. That line sums it all up. Han said their marriage was mostly bad.

    Their performance was clearly light and gentle because they're already past the animosity since they've separated for a long time. Would that be the time to be sniping at each other even if you were reminiscing about how bad your marriage was? That plus they both know there's a good chance Han might not return (as explicitly written in the screenplay). Hence the sad expressions on their faces when they embrace for the last time.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I dunno. I always took that "no matter how much we fought..." and "so you would miss me" exchange as not literal, and maybe also a reference to the entire arc of their relationship, not just their marriage.

      I also took "It wasn't all bad" to be a teasing reminder of what was good. And I saw Leia's "pretty good" as more teasing again.

      But that's just me. I guess TPTB can always put together whatever backstory they want, but I refuse to believe that they had a bad marriage, if only because if they really did I can't believe Leia wouldn't have kicked Han to the curb well before it got to be too much. I also don't believe Han would be in character to act that way.

      But hey, unhappy couples sell more movie tickets...

      Delete
    2. I agree with anyone who says these lines are totally incoherent -- not because Han and Leia necessarily fought like cats and dogs and then he ran away all the time, and then why wasn't it all bad -- but because they're just crap dialogue writing and assume facts not in evidence about the characters. So if you read the dialogue alone, you can interpret it any way you want (hallmark of bad dialogue writing, because the lines have no real meaning).

      So you have to fall back on performance of the lines and go with what the actors played when given crap lines, and what the actors played was gentle and loving teasing, and I thought Han's "it wasn't all bad" was perfectly in character, as we know that Han has an ego, so when he says that, he's looking for confirmation from the woman he still obviously loves (who still obviously loves him -- again, all this is performance as the writing is generic and pointless) that she still thinks of them fondly and has not lost her feelings for him, and that's what allows him to later pull her into that embrace. That's what I get from the performance. That and two actors who had to find their own way through crap writing.

      Delete
    3. Yeah, I have a bunch of convoluted thoughts about this, but rather than go into them I think no matter what it's apparent in the movie that Han and Leia are the love of each other's lives. At least that wasn't messed with.

      Delete
    4. Yes, thank you, Kels. The lines are pointless. Cliches at best. Ultimately meaningless. They didn't even try to give us something halfway decent. I think that's probably all I can say about that right now rather than go off on a rant that is just going to make me sad again about what a complete waste it was to bring them back again when this is what we got.

      Delete
    5. Yeah, I think the problem is fans are reading the lines completely literally. If you just read the lines themselves it sounds like they had an unhappy marriage. But in the performance and even the novelization, it just comes off as affectionate banter. I just feel like if Leia was really referring to "We had screaming fights all the time and then you walked out on me after" and Han was replying "I walked out on you so you would miss me" then they wouldn't have been smiling lovingly at each other. I don't know, it just bothers me that their love story has now turned them into the villains of the sequel trilogy that the new generation of fans point to lines like this and go "See! It's not Kylo's fault he went Dark, look how horrible his parents' marriage was!"

      I asked Pablo whether Leia's line about hating watching him leaving was supposed to be a reference to Han abandoning her and Ben and he said "I'd look at the performance. I think it's clear. I'm surprised others don't." To me that shows that since Carrie's performance is loving and teasing, she isn't actually referring to Han frequently abandoning her. Of course, when I showed Pablo's tweet, the Reylo fans were just like "Well, Carrie's performance was fraught with bitterness and tension so she was clearly referring to Han abandoning her."

      I think a lot of the new generation of TFA fans were never SW fans until they fell in love with the character of Kylo and him as a romantic interest for Rey, so to them the OT characters are just these blank slates they can draw whatever characterization makes Kylo the most sympathetic character. It's really amazing how many mental gymnastics you see the fans come up with to completely whitewash Kylo's bad deeds in the movie (the villagers on Jakku deserved to die because they were like ISIS since they believed in the Jedi, Han deserved to die because he was a deadbeat father, Kylo didn't really slaughter the Jedi Academy but was framed..)

      I also don't feel like Han saying "It wasn't all bad was it?" was him saying "It was mostly bad". I mean yes, literally that's what he said, but it was like when he said to Rey "Chewie kind of likes you" meaning "I like you". It's like taking "I love you" "I know" completely literally. It sounds like Han's being a jackass on a literal version, but in the context it's really all about him putting Leia first "Don't feel guilty because I've always known, and I love you too."

      Delete
    6. You guys all expressed this much more eloquently than I could.

      "No matter how much we fought, I've always hated watching you leave. " seemed like Leia was saying that yeah, they clashed a lot (even BEFORE they got together as a couple) but then, now, always, she's still going to want him and love him. It was like her way of saying I AM ALWAYS GOING TO LOVE YOU! Because he's like, you know, the love of her life.

      And Han's reply: "That's why I did it. So you'd miss me." Was more like him realizing she really does love him still, now, always! He was so DELIGHTED at her admission that she hated it when he left (for a mission, or whatever, yes sometimes because of a bad fight, but also maybe cause just went out to get pick up takeout - LOL) because it showed she still LOVED him! That expression on his face was totally YOU STILL LOVE ME! Which of course elates him because she's you know, the love of his life.

      Then Han banters: "It wasn't all bad, was it? Huh? Some of it was...good." And you know, he's actually saying: Do you forgive me for all the crap we've been through in the recent past because beyond that it's still TRUE LOVE and they really did have some GOOD times together (It's canon! We all saw it in the OT!)

      And Leia's like: "Pretty good." Because you know Leia, she's going to let Han have his ego, but not without a little bit of gentle ribbing and she doesn't want to let him get too cocky. If they reconciled they'd have to get through some baggage and she doesn't want to gloss it all over, but he knows her well enough to see that she still loves him!

      Anyway, that's how I saw that exchange. Lots of love.

      Ugh... I need to stop thinking about TFA. It makes me too sad!!!! At least they still loved each other after everything they went through. I'm so sad they could not be together!!!!

      Delete
    7. The whole movie was incoherent

      Delete
    8. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    9. Thank you so much for your post LoveThis! Sometimes I wonder if I'm going crazy and watching a different movie than everyone else. I took that scene and I believe the intention was to show that, despite everything, they still loved each other (and their son). Leia saying "I did miss you" was her way of saying "I still love you, and I missed you when you were gone" and Han saying "It wasn't all bad, was it?" was him looking for a reaffirmation that she doesn't regret falling in love with him and being married to him all these years. The way Han grins at her when he says it I'm pretty sure he was referring to all the great sex they had. If you watch the film, the only two times he ever smiles are when he finds his ship, and when he's reunited with Leia. The rest of the time he just looks sad and miserable. Which is why I reject this notion that he was trapped by marriage and family and longed to be free. If he was, he wouldn't have been so unhappy being single again.

      I have to read posts like this, and sometimes I wonder if I'm watching two different movies than some posters. There's way too much taking everything Han and Leia say completely literally going on here.

      Factors are not about credit or which one deserves what. Factors are value-free. They either had an effect or didn't. Medals, ribbons, or dunce caps are irrelevant to the discussion on factors. Factors are simply things that contributed to an outcome. Han and Leia's absentee parenting was a factor as much as Rey's abandonment was a factor in her growing up.


      How do you know? Did you write the story? This again is further taking a sentence outside the context of the whole segment of the documentary. I would advise that you watch it first before (or read the transcript I wrote) you go around disagreeing with bits and pieces of the segment without having seen the whole. Two factors led to their being absentee parents -- their constant fighting as well as their inability to balance career and family.

      Not being separated does not equal being around for their son. The dialog I pointed out in TFA hint at their constant fighting and bickering -- heck their dynamic in TFA hints that as soon as they get together, even after a long separation, they start arguing again ("When did that ever help? And don't say the Death Star."). I don't know how you can miss that, it's there in their other dialog but this one really summed it up (my comments in blue):

      Delete
    10. HAN
      It wasn't all bad, was it? Huh? Some of it was...good. (i.e. Most of it was bad.)
      LEIA
      ... Pretty good.
      HAN
      Some things never change.
      LEIA
      (smiles)
      True. You still drive me crazy. (Double meaning -- "crazy in love" or "you drive me nuts" but very likely both)

      LEIA
      No matter how much we fought, I've always hated watching you leave. (They fought a lot, not bickered, fought, and he'd leave whenever they did (like most husbands do). Probably why Kylo was so emotional in the deleted scene of him inside the Falcon. He was probably jealous of the ship. It was what took his father away to god-knows-where whenever Mommy and Daddy were fighting. Or Han probably spent more time on it, tinkering with it than he did with his son -- but that's just my speculation.)
      Han looks over, there's Leia.
      HAN
      That's what[sic] I did it. So you'd miss me. (Confirmation that he'd leave whenever they fought. I think "what" should be "why", but that's the actual script pasted here.)
      That plus the earlier dialog above -- which basically summed up their relationship as mostly bad.

      Nope, not every parent. Usually just the mother more than the father, since usually women have more empathy than men. Han never expressed the same amount of feeling responsible until he confronted Kylo on the bridge. Apparently Leia does because she specifically points to her own action of sending him away to Luke as the final straw that broke Kylo's back, not simply some general feeling that she feels responsible despite her efforts. She feels responsible because of her specific actions. In the context of the documentary -- this most likely means that her action cemented Kylo's abandonment issues when his own mother dumped her problem child for his uncle to deal with. If Kylo had already been suffering from absentee parenting prior to that, sending him away to someone else would've been a disaster, as the abandonment had turned from virtual to actual.
      HAN
      There was nothing we could've done.
      (hard for him to say)
      There was too much Vader in him.
      LEIA
      That's why I wanted him to train with Luke. I just never should have sent him away. That's when I lost him. That's when I lost you both.
      Anyway, if you're not convinced by this then I fully I respect your decision to keep what the actual characters say about their actions in TFA irrelevant to you and just stick to generalizations of what most parents generally are and aren't.

      Delete
    11. Uh, strawman again. They're not being held partially responsible for having careers -- it's their absentee parenting (repeat 100x). Career people can be good parents (repeat 100x). The writer/actors are saying Han and Leia weren't good at juggling career, each other, and family (repeat 100x). And before another strawman arises from the dead, Han and Leia's story doesn't mean that ALL parents can't balance career and family. I'm a father of one and have fostered seven of varying starting ages from 6-16 on a single-income household and so I had to work my ass off for over a decade. None of them grew up to be maladjusted homicidal maniacs and a few have started their own young families. Had both my wife and I worked it would've been terribly difficult balancing their emotional needs with their financial needs. It also helped that I work at home so I was at least physically present all the time even if most of the spiritual presence was handled by my wife. Now that I don't have to work as hard for our finances, I'm able to provide more of that time for my family. And no, before yet another strawman rises from the ashes, I'm not saying men should work and women shouldn't. I'm simply saying there's always a way to balance career and family, and that's up to the parents to figure out.

      But it's more than what the actor says the character feels, it's what the actor actually says happened: "having your parents be absent during that process". But even if you dismiss the actor's comments, you can't dismiss those of J.J. "And these parents aren't there enough to guide him" Abrams, who co-wrote the thing.

      Strawman again. They were simply absentee. "Didn't care", "apathetic", "left him behind" are simply your over-interpretations (again). Love does not always translate to good parenting. I'm sure a lot of terrible parents love and provided for their children, they just didn't provide the stuff that mattered most.

      I think you're using semantics (again) with the use of the word "abandoned" -- another of your usual strawmen techniques which is to use a strict definition of a word that nobody here is using (including Adam Driver) in the context of their arguments then arguing against that unused context. Parents don't have to split up to make a child feel abandoned. They just have to fail at giving that child enough attention and guidance. Who knows? Maybe Kylo was an unusually needy child (as Anakin appeared to be) and needed more time and guidance than the average child. But in the end, who's supposed to give that but his parents?

      Note that the documentary also uses the words "absent" and "not there enough to guide" him -- they do not connote outright abandonment. Kylo felt abandoned in the virtual sense. His parents weren't officially separated, but were constantly fighting (and Han leaving whenever they did). The writer states in no uncertain terms the they "were not there enough to guide him". Does that preclude his parents loving him? Being provided for? Being at home all the time? No! They just didn't put their love, their time, and their resources into effective action. You keep arguing with assertions nobody has made. They were simply absentee parents, whether physically, virtually, or both we don't know exactly.

      It's about all the factors. You can't cherry-pick what the documentary is "mainly" about. If his parents had been more present, then malevolent influences (Snoke's) wouldn't have been able to take root -- that's the story they're trying to say. The writer/actors are effectively saying it's not enough that an outside influence targeted Kylo -- there were other factors that made that outside influence successful and they were Kylo's genes (the Vader in him) and Han and Leia's absentee parenting.

      Delete
  20. By the way can't remember if I posted this before, but here are the Han/Leia threads on the JC: http://boards.theforce.net/threads/han-and-leia-in-the-eu-a-discussion-thread.50038703/page-24

    ReplyDelete
  21. 2 weeks till Bloodline comes out. Early release press is that it's an excellent Leia book and Claudia Gray really "got" Leia's character. I heard good things about Lost Stars also from Claudia Gray, so fingers crossed.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Hmm, so JJ just debunked Rey Skywalker: https://twitter.com/okayplayer/status/721114234357170176. He says Rey's parents aren't in Episode VII. Daisy debunked Rey Solo a while back.

    Have to say I'm surprised. I wonder who her parents are then? A descendant of Kenobi?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. J.J. lies sometimes.

      Also, I think that Daisy said that people told her that Han Solo was her dad, and she said, "How do you know. You haven't seen the movie." Something like that.

      Delete
    2. No Daisy said "Did you see the movie? I wasn't." She's not a Solo. Pablo confirmed Daisy was right.

      Delete
    3. Well now he's backpedalling and saying that's not what he meant. So back to square 1. LOL

      Delete
  23. Also, if you look very closely at the last Han/Leia scene in FA, Han actually takes Leia's hand and rubs it right after he says, "Some things never change." Watch the bottom of the screen. It's really fast.

    ReplyDelete
  24. So another question... Han and jealousy? I've been reading up on all the high rated H&L EU novels reviewed here on this blog, and Han is frequently portrayed as the jealous type. Is this particular to Leia, because she's you know, special and the love of his life, or is he always territorial with women he's interested in. (I lean towards only Leia.) That said, how possessive is too possessive? COPL goes too far (stalker! Han, who kidnaps his ex-girlfriend! No!) but can anyone unpack the jealousy? Where does it come from? Is it chauvinistic? Do you all find jealously consistent with Han's character? Thoughts???

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You know, I don't really see Han as a super jealous type. I think being really jealous comes from a rather high level of insecurity, and insecure is not really a Han Solo trait, is it? I mean sure, maybe occasionally a little, but generally no. You just commented too on the Shadows of Mindor review and I thought that book did a great job with it. Was he annoyed by Fenn Shysa? Totally. Did he want him to stop looking at Leia? Of course. Was he like, all whiny and pouty and possessive about it? No, because I don't think he feels like he needs to be. I think after the very beginning, he knows how Leia feels about him and he isn't too worried about her being stolen away. Again there is a line in Mindor where Han thinks that somewhere WAY deep down he worries that Leia will come to her senses and leave him, but I don't think he really outwardly expresses it.

      He does act a little jealous and possessive in ESB if you notice. When Lando comes in to take them to dinner (shouldn't he have been less flirty and more jumpy since he knew he was walking them straight to Vader?!?) Han comes up behind Leia and holds up his arm for her to take and gives Lando this look like, "Back off, buddy, this one is mine." I can see little things like that. Just a look and a simple gesture that says so much.

      COPL level jealousy was just crazy and again, insecure. If Leia actually started treating him that way (which she wouldn't) I think he would be like, fine, see ya, I don't need this.

      I don't see him as territorial with other women. Again, that kind of comes from insecurity, and also I feel like he wouldn't have cared as much about other relationships to be that bothered by anything with other women. If anything, it would've made it easier to keep things a little more casual and distant. I can see him acting fairly aloof with other women.

      Delete
    2. I can actually see Han as a bit of a jealous type. Not psycho stalker like in COPL, but men paying attention to Leia and flirting with her gets under his skin. He probably has to deal with it constantly, given how attractive Leia is and how she probably is constantly coming into contact with suave politicians and the like. He is a hot-blooded, alpha male who can be quick tempered, so I do see him getting pissed off easily at a guy who doesn't respect Leia's boundaries that she's with someone else. Then you also have the factor that maybe some people higher up don't approve of Leia being with an ex-smuggler, and I could see him getting his hackles up.

      But if Leia actually fell in love with someone else and wanted to leave Han (that would never happen), Han wouldn't go crazy and kidnap her. I mean he'd try to talk sense into her, remind her of all they'd shared together and how much he loves her, but he'd let her go if that was what she really wanted. He was willing to do that at the end of ROTJ, which is another reason why his actions in COPL are so out of character.

      I don't think he'd care much within more casual relationships. Leia's a special case, because I see him having this idea of "I can't believe I landed a princess" and still with this idea she's out of his league, and also of course because she's the love of his life.

      An interesting fic would be an ANH-ESB fic of Han getting jealous, and then him thinking about why he's jealous. In Heart of the Rebellion, Leia went to visit an ex-boyfriend and both Han and Luke were shown being pretty jealous about her going. Could be cute :)

      Delete
    3. Ewokkey, have you read all of the Heart of the Rebellion comics? Are they worth it? There's one titled "A Valentine Story" that's supposed to lead up to ESB with Han and Leia stuck on a starship on Hoth during a snowstorm: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/A_Valentine_Story. I had no idea, but now I'm all like, SRSLY? (I mean, LOOK at the cover art!) I haven't read comic books in years, but maybe I have to check that one out! LOL.

      I can't remember which novel (maybe Razor's Edge? - I've read so many in such a short time - public libraries with downloadable e-books are awesome) but in one of the EU books Han is described as almost "immune to embarrassment" and also possessed with a confidence that comes from having earned it, or something to that effect. He's also often portrayed in books as reckless, but usually because it's the other half of his genius, coming up with fast-thinking, crazy schemes to get himself and others out of trouble. Han Solo is definitely not an insecure guy. So I agree with both of you that I just don't see him as a normally jealous person, but I am so intrigued that he is jealous and possessive when it comes to Leia!

      One thing to think about... I haven't read any of the OT novelizations of ANH, ESB, or ROTJ (more on the To Do for Fun List) but does Han show much jealousy towards Luke? Just wondering because there seems to be a pattern with Han's jealousy that centers on men who are often fluffed up dignitaries, princes, or rich poncy types. (Lando in Cloud City would definitely fit into the poncy type.) I've never seen Han's jealousy depicted towards some hard working honest good guy. It's always smarmy political figures or officials with ulterior motives who embody most of what Han hates in the world at large. Fenn Shysa incurred less hostility (after all he is Fenn Shysa. Honorable leader and warrior... LOL. Fenn does take himself too seriously) compared to the the Alderaanian Imperial in Truce at Bakura. Why? Is it because Fenn is actually a more honorable character, even if Han doesn't like him sniffing around Leia?

      And again, it seems like with Luke (who is as much of an exception as Leia in Han's universe, I know) Han may have felt insecure that perhaps Leia liked Luke romantically, but he doesn't really hold that against him or Leia. It's as if Han as much as he wants Leia for himself almost approves of Luke being with her because even though he sees Luke as naive and painfully earnest, he also sees Luke as so deeply and inherently good. As if he thinks Luke is a better person than him.

      Even in fanfic Han is most jealous when it's some king, prince, or an outrageously wealthy and powerful guy. It's never just some regular good dude.

      Delete
    4. A Valentine Story is definitely worth a read for a H/L fan. Really cute one and I don't read many comics either. SW Infinities for ESB has lot of good H/L moments too.

      Delete
    5. Definitely get Heart of the Rebellion. All four Leia stories are awesome. One is pre-ANH about Leia on a mission for Bail, and the other three are between ANH and ESB. One of them (can't remember the name now) is really cute, it's the author's "Mary Sue" who's got a huge crush on Han but she realizes Han only has eyes for Leia and how awesome Leia is. Leia used to get treated really badly in the comics (looked like a hag, was a bimbo or bitch), so it's awesome to get four back to back stories where she's drawn well and is awesome and kick ass! And ICE is the pure Han/Leia fanfic in comic form!

      I don't like seeing Han as the possessive type, because that indicates a controlling, needy type and I don't see him that way. Like the type of boyfriend who's like "I don't want you to talk to that guy because I don't trust him" and "remove all your male friends from facebook" (or whatever the equivalent is in a GFFA LOL). Leia would never put up with that crap and Han wouldn't try anything like that. He's confident enough. But do I see him getting annoyed and openly brusque when some rich fancy politician tries to flirt with Leia in front of him? Yeah, sure.

      Delete
  25. Bad news: According to people who have read the book, Ben has already fallen to the Dark Side in Bloodline apparently, so if Han and Leia are still together, I'm not sure how happy their marriage will be. I'm thinking I should have been pessimistic like Zyra about this book :P

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Why am I not surprised? They seemed bound and determined to ruin Han and Leia. And sad their only use seems to be to set up the next baddie. What is the timeframe on the book, like when is it set? Just curious.

      Delete
    2. And what happened to us getting some happy H and L books?

      Delete
    3. It's six years before TFA. And I don't know, Jen Heddle really made it sound like they were still together in it, but if Ben is already dark then I don't see how that possible. I guess they might have some scenes together in it but already be broken up or on the verge of breaking up. But that really doesn't jive with Jen Heddle's tweets that Bloodline has Han and Leia in happier times.

      Delete
    4. UGH. I'm about to fall the dark side just reading this. Why!!! Why!!! Or perhaps "Noooooooo!" would be a more appropriate reaction. TPTB suck. I really hate them right now.

      Delete
    5. I'm so confused! It really sounded like from Jen Heddle that they were still together. The only thing I can think of is that 1) they haven't broken up yet but their marriage is strained 2) the Han/Leia scenes are flashbacks or 3) they're already split up but meet up in the book for business reasons (that also seems strange to me because they don't seem like the kind of exes that would stay in touch).

      Sigh, being a Han/Leia fan is like getting kicked in the teeth over and over again now. To top it off, Star Wars Insider did an interview with the author who wrote the TFA novelization who referred to Han and Leia as divorced. Which makes no sense since in his own novelization they're still married.

      Delete
    6. I TOLD you guys. And let me be clear, I want nothing more than to be proven wrong. I have ZERO faith that they will do anything that will make us feel the slightest bit better about any of this. The more details we learn, the worse we are going to feel until they have officially completely destroyed anything that was ever good about Han and Leia's relationship.

      This is why I don't understand all of the trying to interpret what this means or that means, or arguing with people about it. You can argue all you want (correctly, I completely agree with you) that those lines were delivered by two people who had shared a great love and who wished they could still be together. But it doesn't really matter if they go back and fill in the blanks and we find out that things really were terrible. It would absolutely mean that the entire scene was completely mis-directed and poorly done based on knowing the actual history, but why do they care about being consistent? They just want to do certain things without thinking anything through.

      And I know you want some sort of reassurance, but already you know you were lied to or at the very least misinformed about certain things you'd asked about. Do you want to keep asking questions only to get answers you're not sure you can trust? I'm so, so not surprised that they are already split up in this book coming out and everything already sucks. As I said, I don't WANT to be right about this, but everything new we learn is just more and more disappointing, so you might as well expect the worst.

      The really sad thing is that they have made me not care what they do in any of these books or even the movies going forward. They have taken away my favorite things about Star Wars. You're not going to suddenly learn some good news that is going to make you excited about it again. I'll be shocked if there is anything good for Han and Leia fans in this new book, no matter what you were told before.

      Delete
    7. Zyra,

      Agreed on many points. But my basic point now is, if they actually do go down the worst path possible: just ignore it all. Don't buy it. And be vocal on the internet in saying why. I feel like modern consumers have forgotten that they are 1/2 of the capitalist equation and have a lot of power here, if they only remember how to say "NO."

      Delete
    8. That's right. I've been very vocal and loud about it. If I hadn't loved these characters since childhood, I wouldn't care THAT MUCH. But it's more than 30 years now. We deserved more after 30 years.

      That being said, if you want to know a little more about "Bloodline" from what Jennifer Heddle has told me and others, check Twitter out. Some good news there...

      Delete
    9. That's cool, but hard to know what to believe any more. So I'll probably reserve judgment for now.

      Delete
    10. Yeah, I have no idea what to believe any more. We know Ben is already Dark and Luke is gone, but apparently they are still together in this book. So it seems they stayed together for a while after Ben went Dark, then split up. So if there are Han/Leia scenes in this book, it looks like they are going to be the beginning of showing cracks in their marriage, the "beginning of the end". I still don't understand why Jen Heddle said Bloodline had Han and Leia in happier times though! I'm so confused....

      Delete
  26. Two thoughts:

    1. Iluvkoalas is right in saying "we'll see"

    2. If they really are going down this miserable nihilistic road, JUST DON'T BUY IT. Corporate Hollywood is influenced by one thing only: money. (for as many good/bad things there are about Lucas, and as much as he likes money like the rest of us, it was not his only influence. It IS the only influence driving Star Wars now.)

    I know there is some concern about noisy Kylo Ren fans on the web, but (1) they are mostly millenials or younger. You know what those generation DOESN'T do? Buy books/kindle books and read them in large numbers in the way the generations before them did and (2) the web skews your perception. 2500 people yapping about Reylo on SW sites makes it seem like EVERYBODY is aboard, but it just isn't so. Seriously, we're six months out from TFA, and I don't hear anyone talking about it. Ever. It's not a cultural phenomenon. It was a movie that was huge for its moment, and now that moment passed. So if they go this way with the books, avoid them like the plague, read fan fiction, and support other fan fiction writers who go in a direction that is more appealing to you, and maybe someday (or maybe not) they'll see that they've made a mistake and fix it (because God knows, if they think there's money in it, they will at some point have an AU)

    Look at Aftermath - it's a flop. Opened big on the NYT best seller list, dropped like a stone, and then the author started embarrassing himself by dropping F bombs and bitching about fans being bigots when mostly they just didn't like the book.

    So just don't buy it. No reason you have to buy something just because it says "Star Wars" on it, especially now that Star Wars is just a cog in big entertainment, not an empire built on the genius of one man.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. All good points! And I am definitely not going to be buying it! Support your local public library! It's all I've been using so far!

      Delete
    2. Yes Kels, definitely good points.

      You're right about the movie. Although people liked it, many didn't LOVE it. And that's okay. But it's not 1977 anymore, that's for sure. Believe me, I was there.

      Delete
    3. The thing about "Aftermath" is is that it wasn't about the Big 3. They just didn't get that we wanted Han/Leia/Luke stories, not some stories about random characters. Stupid decision on their part...

      Delete
    4. It's TPTB's way of cramming "the franchise" down our throats. Anything to keep "moar movies" and "moar books!" Meh. I only care about Han and Leia. Other characters don't interest me in the least.

      Delete
  27. Okay, can we bring this post back to a happy place? ('Cause sex and Han Solo in the same sentence should be all about happy places!)

    What about Han, sex, and aliens? Now IRL we frown on interspecies uh, relations... but I'm just starting Tatooine Ghost and I'm just at the point where they're in Most Eisley to view the painting and Leia and Han are disguised as a Twi'lek and Devaronian. And Leia seems to be a bit jealous of the Codru-Ji serving drinks. She actually wonders if she knows Han's smell! LOL. (Omg, is this book already SO much fun.) Anyway, that got me thinking... Since this is a Han Solo's sex life post... What does literature and fanfic say? Is he an intergalactic species guy? If so is it kind of icky? (To be honest, I'm a little grossed out by the thought. Perhaps because the IRL equivalent is too horrific to contemplate!) Or if he is indeed into cross-species is it okay because that's how humans roll in the GFFA?

    (Please, someone tell me no! I honestly would rather not think of Han with anyone but Leia, and if it's anyone else I'd strongly prefer human, but you know... I must ask... for science and greater understanding of how things work in the Star Wars universe.)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I love that you are reading all of those books! I think you'll like them.

      I mean, to remove some of the ick factor when we talk about this, you do need to remember that in Star Wars a lot of the "alien" species are really pretty close to human. I think it has been mentioned in a lot of places that Twi'lek women are often sex workers, basically. I'm sure they get with a lot of humans.

      All that said, I'm going to say that Han sticks with human women.

      Delete
    2. Thank you! That's my head canon. But seriously it was such an icky moment when I contemplated why Leia might be jealous of a red female alien with six arms... Like, why? Because... OH... ew... no way... ew... really?... EWWWWW!!!! LOL.

      Delete
  28. I have another topic/question. Just how shy is Han? I don't imagine he is that self conscious and if a lady is getting the view, not sure he'd mind. But it makes me wonder how much of an eyeful Leia would have gotten on the way to Bespin? Even if they didn't go all the way, which I'm not convinced they did, how casual would Han have been? Is he the type to run around naked or partially clothed and not care? Maybe drive Leia a little crazy running around in his underwear? It's his ship, so he might be more casual if they were on a long trip and was more himself than maintaining pretenses or decorum. I could see him letting lose a little more on the trip or just not bothering to hide anything any more.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well remember, Chewie was there, so I can't see Han going unclothed unless it was in the bedroom with Leia.

      Delete
    2. Probably not unclothed no. But he and Chewie are more like family and could see Han not caring ifor Chewie saw him partially unclothed.

      Delete
    3. I dunno about this one. I can't really imagine Han sitting around in his underwear all day long. LOL. Seriously it gives me the giggles. I am sure though, on a hot and humid planet, or with wonky environmental controls Han wouldn't hesitate to strip down to what's comfortable. He'd still want to stay armed though, no matter how much he was (or wasn't) wearing, so I can't see him prancing around naked unless things were locked down and secured.

      I could see him being relaxed with Leia after they've either consummated their relationship or started heading there and maybe going from his cabin (where he's with Leia unclothed) to making quick checks on the falcon and back wearing very little and not being entirely concerned abut Chewie seeing him. But I would think he'd probably still cover the indecent parts!

      Before he and Leia get together I'd only see him do it to annoy Leia. Just to be crude or oafish to bother her. Or again as above (environmental control malfunction) in order to be more comfortable and that her Worship can go stuff it if her delicate sensibilities are offended on his ship!

      Delete
    4. Lol! I love that about her Worship's delicate sensibilities. Nice one. :)

      Yeah, I have a harder time seeing him going around naked on the Falcon. Too many moving parts probably and don't want pieces of him getting nipped by accident. Definitely could see him having some sleep pants he wears around if the ship is locked down and safe. Or going to the galley in his underwear in the middle of the night for something.

      Oh, I can totally see Han doing it to tweak Leia in the beginning. Or as he let down his walls on the way to Bespin. I still think the trip took weeks or days not months. Just got me wondering how comfortable did they get around each other.

      Delete
    5. Hey LoveThis, check your inbox on the JC! Sorry had to tell you here cause I wasn't sure if you knew that you could.

      Delete
    6. Well it all depends on how well Han and Leia really got to know each other on that trip. If it were a few weeks, I can believe they didn't go all the way. If it's months... I just don't see how they wouldn't!

      Either way, I can see them being very physically close at some point, without actually having sex. Like sleeping in the same bunk, lots of physical contact that doesn't necessarily go too far, but still creates a strong sense of intimacy. I could totally see them hanging out in their underwear together. But I imagine they'd want to be a little more clothed around Chewie!

      Delete
    7. I'm totally basing my opinion on this on a guy friend in real life, who was good looking and knew it all too well. We used to go to music festivals together and, since he was both good-looking and broke, we'd inevitably end up sharing a hotel room (not a bed), and he thought nothing of walking around the room in his towel after showering until I would say, "No one is going to compliment your body in this room, no matter how long you prance around in a towel." So -- probably because of that ego/knows he's good-looking thing - I see Han as being a towel prancer for much longer than strictly necessary after using the 'fresher when Leia or anyone else is aboard his ship.

      Delete
    8. Lol, Kels! Now that's a visual. That's why I think he would run around in his underwear a little more than necessary. Cause he knows he's hot and comfortable about his body. And maybe Leia will get ideas. ;)

      Delete
    9. See, these are the conversations I enjoy. Han and "shy" do not go together. That said, I'm not sure I see him deliberately parading around in his underwear, as much as I enjoy the mental image. Before they get together, that's maybe a little too far. There is fun teasing and then there is going WAY overboard with the "See what you're missing out on, Princess?" Also, remember they are at war and there is a lot going on. I don't think any of them are able to spend much time lounging around in their underwear. Once they are together, potentially the Bespin trip even if they are closer but not THERE yet, sure.

      I'm positive Han is not shy around Chewie and I'm sure Chewie has seen it all from him ;) I don't think he would go out of his way to show himself off for her, but I also don't think he would go out of his way to be especially modest either.

      Delete
    10. Me too. :)

      I think you summed it up well. I don't see him going out of his way, but he doesn't strike me as overly modest either. Maybe on the trip to Bespin all bets were off and he wasn't deliberate about it, but he started getting used to her around and wasn't always worried about throwing on some pants if going down the corridor for a moment. For that matter, where the heck did Leia sleep on the way to Bespin? I like to think he had a crew quarters in a hold somewhere or at least an extra bunk. And I'm sure he and Chewie liked separate places to sleep.

      Delete
    11. What is this "overboard" of which Zyra speaks when it comes to Han Solo and partial nudity?
      I am unfamiliar with this concept of overboard.

      Delete
    12. Thanks ladies for filling my head with thoughts of a scantily clad scoundrel wandering around on the Falcon. Certainly brightened up my crappy day ;)

      Delete
    13. Lol, Kels! There probably is no overboard with Han and nudity. I guess he probably didn't lay around in the bunk only wearing the sheet and called Leia over? It happens... :) Yeesh, now going to have visions of that stuck in my head the rest of the day.

      Glad to help, Claire. :) Thought it might be a nice visual.

      Delete
    14. Yeah, this is my kind of topic. No such thing as overboard here...

      But when it comes to Han himself. I tend to feel like he's a pragmatist. (Like, yeah, the ladies like him. So what? It's not ego,, it's true!)

      Or sure, he'll get naked if it's more comfortable. Why not? Take off his shirt, walk around in a towel if necessary, but not necessarily do it to show his body off, but because it's just part of what happens when you're living life and getting things done. And if Leia happens to notice, good for her. And if she's gives him crap for it, well if it's before they get together, he'd likely be annoyed because bodies are bodies, and sex is sex, and she should relax a little, unless it's because she's afraid she can't control herself!

      If it's after they get together... I could see him occasionally baiting her with his body... because she thinks he's sexy and he knows it... LOL.

      But really I kind of think of Han being somewhat indifferent and matter of fact about his feminine appeal. Sure he has an ego, but rather than be preening about it, he just sort of accepts it as true.

      Delete
    15. I guess I need to clarify. By "overboard" I just mean like, at what point does it become outright sexual harassment? And let me also be clear, I get annoyed when people think he is sexually harassing her during the movies at all. But I do think that depending on timing and circumstance, parading around in just a towel or his underwear might be pushing it. If you are sharing a hotel room with a platonic male friend who has NOT spent his time trying to make you admit your feelings for him (I've been there too, with the occasional just towel or underwear but not in a parading sort of way) it might be going a bit too far.

      It does sort of remind me of a Saturday Night Live sketch with Tom Brady where they did a sexual harassment video and the joke basically was that if you are kind of creepy and weird, just saying hello was sexual harassment. But if you're hot (Tom Brady) then walking around the office in your underwear or just grabbing a boob for no reason is just fine. If you're attractive, nothing is sexual harassment.

      Lastly, I agree Han just accepts his appeal to women as truth but not necessarily ego. Unless he is trying to make Leia jealous, which I do think he'd have done sometimes.

      Delete
    16. I don't really see Han parading around undressed/half dressed to get a reaction from Leia until they're more or less together, and even then, more as a joke.

      Before they get together I see any situation like arising more like if it's practical in a particular situation then he'll undress and won't feel embarrassed because it seems like the right/necessary/straightforward thing to do and it is pretty hard to get Han to feel shy or embarrassed about anything.

      Delete
    17. And I need to clarify again because I messed up what I was trying to say. I meant if the guy had NOT been spending months or years trying to get you to admit your feelings for him, then it doesn't really matter and it's different. But if the guy has been goading you for months/years, then it would be too much.

      I might finally be done clarifying.

      Delete
    18. Well, this is interesting though! Does Han actually sexually harass Leia in the movies? Or even in books/comics or fanfic? Sometimes I think it does go overboard a little, but is also the result of the times in which the OT was made and when some of the comics were written. I think we're much more sensitized to sexual harassment and consent nowadays.

      That said, would it be okay to suggest that Han is a bit over the line with Leia before they get together and before she acknowledges her feelings for him? He teases her, engages in occasional sexual intimidation (his innuendos), and is generally a pain in the ass, running hot one moment, cold the next, even as he genuinely likes her and starts to fall in love with her. It is an admittedly slightly more than dysfunctional way to announce one's romantic intentions. (though to be fair I think he was conflicted and fighting his feelings. And Leia was pretty much the same, just as unfair and unethical with him.) But it's worth pondering. Han shouldn't be some "perfect guy" who always does everything right. I can accept him being a little wrong in how he approached Leia, especially since their relationship doesn't mature and come to fruition until there's sufficient character growth.

      Delete
    19. In the movies I don't think so. Although you know the extra lines in the ESB deleted section of the fight in the hallway at Hoth? I do think that starts to go too far and I am glad they cut it.

      Off the top of my head I can't think of much in any books or comics where he went overboard there. I've read fanfics where he goes over the line, but again I can't remember specifics. It is hard to find the right balance of playful banter vs. over the line. I think he has fun riling her up but I don't think he would go far enough that she would be like, afraid to be alone with him.

      Delete
    20. Oh, I am so glad they deleted that dialogue in the south passage. That would have been a total turn-off. It's totally sexist and gross! But, I think the kissing scene in the circuitry bay actually worked better (from a consent point of view) in the uncut version. It's much clearer that Leia wants it as much as he does and "Okay Hotshot" is her acknowledgement of that. (Also see the super adorable half-smile Han gives when she says that, like both relieved and elated that she really does want the same thing in that moment! - That got cut!)

      So I dunno I found a copy of that A Valentine Story on Scribd. I thought some of Han's dialogue at the start was a little gross!

      - -
      Leia: I live in the real world Captain Solo and I don't have any problem getting dirty.

      Han: Is that so? Well, now things just got interesting.

      Then Leia punches Han.
      - -

      Han: So you just couldn't wait to get down to Hoth, huh? Looking forward to all that fine weather? Or did you just need another excuse to be near me?

      (Leia tells Han his ego should have its own gravitational pull. His head is big enough to have its own senate...)

      Han: That isn't a 'no'.

      The rest of the coming was really cute, but I was cringing through those lines! It's like... dude, no. Even if a woman is attracted to a guy and he knows it, it's no longer cool to push it if she's not encouraging it!

      Delete
    21. The lines that were cut were when he said you forgot to be a woman wasn't it? Those were pretty bad. And you could use a good kiss is classic way to end it.

      I'm sure Han pushed the envelope at times. Hard to know where the line is if you don't test it you know? But I doubt he'd ever be totally creepy or apologize if he had. You think he ever had to do that? Apologize for sticking his foot in his mouth before they were together?

      Anyone think the Falcon kiss was too much or too far? I know I love it and cool with it. And sometimes guys just have to take a chance. That's what you do. But I am a bit older and probably have a broader view of things. I do wish they had kept the longer kiss. It does show Leia wants him just as much which is sadly missing otherwise. What we got was great but we lost some depth of their feelings and not as obvious in other parts.

      Delete
    22. My only real problem with the Falcon kiss is that up until then Leia is so hostile towards Han and doesn't really show any romantic receptivity. Sure, she must care for him (and be in denial) the way she chases him out of the command center on Hoth, and freaks out when he's going to leave, but she's otherwise so dismissive. I think the longer kiss scene on the Falcon is a bit clunky (which is why they probably edited it) but I think it better establishes the mutual attraction which makes Han pushing her a bit more palatable.

      Delete
    23. I never really had a problem with the Falcon kiss as it was in the movie. Han moves in really slowly, and Leia is far from weak and defenseless. If she REALLY didn't want him to kiss her, she would've made sure it didn't happen. She leaned into it at the last second. So I never thought it was too far.

      Delete
  29. I have Bloodline Han/Leia spoilers if anyone wants to know! PM me on the JC (my username is unicorn) if you want them.

    ReplyDelete
  30. I know this discussion has died down, but this topic is one of my most favorite. So I started reading Honor Among Thieves. I have to say it's so interesting to see Han as a charmer, even if in the service of gathering intel. It really offers a different side of Han, which fits into a "girl in every port" persona. I am totally enjoying it, if only for the insight into how Han might behave with the ladies. It makes me think about how baffled/frustrated he must have been when his charms didn't work on Leia (even though underneath it all she was just in denial!)

    ReplyDelete