How do you think Han and Leia would celebrate something like Valentine's Day? Let's not assume it is exactly the same as it is here, but just a similar kind of holiday, or even an anniversary or something like that.
I don't personally see them as the types who would do these grand romantic gestures. For one thing, I don't think they'd need that. Like I don't think Leia would need gifts or giant bouquets of flowers to know that Han loved her. And I don't think that Han would need much from her either, as I suspect it is pretty clear no matter what day it is how they feel about each other. But I do think it's fun to think about them doing nice things for each other, or one of them surprising the other with something. What do you guys think?
I feel like Han is a more romantic character (both in the small r and capital R Romantic Era) than Leia is. I mean, he stayed around for two years basically in the hopes that her shell would crack and she would admit her feelings for him. That's both romantic and Romantic (in the 'he was sorta pining for her but too proud to say it' way).
ReplyDeleteSo, given that, I kinda see him trying to swing the more grand romantic gestures, both to success and his own embarrassment, as their relationship continued. I could see him being the one to plan a romantic getaway for the GFFA equivalent of Valentine's Day. I could also see him screwing it up and ending up in a sleazy dive casino that he believed would be more romantic and less pay-by-the-hour than it is (Hmm...that might be a fan fic right there).
For her, I see her having to work on any "big" romantic gestures. I don't think it would come easily to her, but I could see her deciding to put all her duties aside to spend a day (in bed :) with him, and I think he'd know how difficult playing hookie from her duties would be for her and really appreciate that, even if it's not a grand gesture. It's just a gesture that says "you come first" which I think would be all he would need.
Definitely valid points. I've always kind of wondered if Han doing romantic things was truly in character or just our fantasized version of him. In my head it does kind of make sense though. For sure I see him as someone who would enjoy doing nice things for her. I think once I posed a challenge or asked a question that had Leia doing something nice for HIM for once, because we really almost never see that in our fics. Not that she is cold or unloving, she just never seems to really give him gifts or arrange something for him. But I guess in a way I don't see him really needing that, as long as she is there and loves him and goes to bed with him every night, he's probably pretty happy.
DeleteI think we probably agree that they whatever else happens, they would celebrate with some really good sex ;)
Oh, I multiship and I still think Han is the romantic gesture guy in any ship I have him in. Anyone who hops on a Tauntaun and declares "I'll see you in hell," manages to slug Lando after finding out how Luke's coming and Leia and Chewie are being left on Cloud City or stands there and says "The Princess, you have to take care of her" is a romantic at heart ;-) Someone else pointed out that he's still using his 50 year old ship. He's a sentimentalist and a romantic ;-) (I wrote a story where he goes out and brings back breakfast treats, and another where, even after everything that happened on the way to TFA, he carries a 2D picture of the three of them to remind him of happier times.)
DeleteBut yeah, he does probably do it in small doses - surprise dinner, maybe a bottle of good booze, a day in bed ::g:: Leia's the practical one - but just like her changing into the girl clothes on occasion, if she does remember, she does go for the flowers or the day in bed. For some reason, I always see Han as the "celebrate with food" (I guess that's from Harrison being somewhat of a cook and his son being a chef) either cooking or bringing back good things to eat.
And Kels, yes, you need to write Han and Leia visit the sleazy dive casino - Han blames Lando (when he really wrote the name down wrong). And, as Spike used to say, "chaos ensues."
DeleteLet me add that to the to-do list. Right now, from the length of it, I'll need to live to about 182 to get it all done.
DeleteMay you live to 182.
DeleteNo huge gestures, I agree, although I can imagine Han arranging something quiet and cute aboard the falcon, like dinner for example. Or him whisking Leia away for a really quick surprise trip aboard the Falcon somewhere to get her away from her political life briefly. Any which way, I just imagine the Falcon would be involved somehow because it is or was such a huge part of their relationship and lives.
ReplyDeleteI think Kels has hit it spot on. I can't really think of much more. They don't need anything big, but, one year, Han decides that Leia deserves something special and tries to pull of a fancy dinner night at home, but the meat burns and something's on fire and Leia just laughs at him and they settle in bed for a night that goes better than dinner.
ReplyDeleteAll this dive bar talk reminds me of I think a scene from Children of the Jedi where Han and Leia go under cover at some dive and Leia is dressed, well, in a revealing manner, and some woman there keeps calling Han Angelpants. I think after a very short bout of disappointment they might roll with it and have fun hanging out at a seedy bar, just as long as they remain pretty much connected at the hip so nobody sneaks in to steal either one of them away!
ReplyDeleteAgreed! I think Han would be mad at himself and grouchy at first if he took her to a seedy place by accident - I actually think Leia would get more into it than he would. For her, it would be different and an adventure - how the other half lives. For him, it would be a bit more not wanting to bring her into the way he used to have to get by, but coming around and enjoying himself a bit when he sees her enjoying herself.
DeleteYes, good call there too that Leia would be more into it. For Han it's probably associated with some bad memories, but for Leia it's just a chance to experience something she never has before, but to be able to do it while feeling safe with Han there.
DeleteIn the old EU Han was portrayed as somewhat of a hopeless romantic, in the New Rebellion he talks about how he surprises Leia with romantic dinner by candlelight and in the Zahn duology he surprises Leia with a romantic trip where he's arranged everything ahead of time, so I've always seen him as more of a romantic than even Leia. I can totally see him arranging a special romantic dinner or surprising Leia with a romantic getaway. Leia I actually see more as the pragmatic type who gets so busy she almost forgets it's Valentine's Day (or the equivalent) until Han reminds her, haha.
ReplyDeleteThe scene in the Ewok village just sprang to mind, when Threepio is telling stories and it gets to the part about carbon freezing Han. Leia gets all misty-eyed and touchy-feely, while Han looks sheepish and uncomfortable. I can just imagine some Valentine's day sort of event where Leia does get inspired to do something incredibly thoughtful, using her senatorial speech-writing skills to beautifully express her feelings for or about Han, perhaps in the presence of friends or a larger group, and Han gets all bashful. OK, maybe not a "Valentine's Day" sort of celebration, but perhaps an anniversary party or some such.
ReplyDeleteI'm with CV73 on the concept of Han as a guy who maybe expresses himself a little bit through food. Somewhere in my collection of story outlines (yet to be written in full) I have him and Leia together planetside, sourcing supplies for the Rebellion, when they come across a sort of local farmer's market and find a stall there selling some fresh produce of Alderaanian stock (e.g. herbs, peppers, etc.) Seeing how the sights and smells affect Leia, Han buys a bunch of the stuff and then later cooks a meal for her (thank the stars for recipe archives on the Holonet, eh) that features some authentic flavours of Alderaan. It's Mush City, I know, but then again JustineGraham and I also had Han literally scratching their initials on a rock, a la middle school kids in lurve.haha For me, he is definitely the more sentimental of the two.
ReplyDeleteBut I also see him as perhaps having a little less than his usual self-confidence in such matters when it comes to Leia. Though he appears cocksure, I think underneath it all he's never entirely certain how appropriate his little gestures are gonna be, or how they will be received. I adore stories where he's a bit dorky or he makes some sort of attempt at romance and fumbles it. I think that's so endearing.
As for Leia... I think if there were a version of Valentine's Day in the GFFA, she might consider surprising him with something for his ship, or something for the bedroom. I can't help but think that Han would be just as happy to receive a nifty new shield generator or a high-end sensor jammer, as he would be to find Leia waiting for him in their bunk, dressed in sexy lingerie. (Well, okay, I think it would probably be something like a 49.9/50.1 split, in favour of the lingerie.) snicker
I should have mentioned that the marketplace story outlined above is one that Sue Zahn began with me back in April of last year...we've just never developed it. I keep it in my collection of "bunnies", though, because I like the idea of Han (during the period between ANH and ESB) demonstrating his feelings for Leia in this nonverbal way, and it bringing them closer together. It's the height of romance, for me. I can see Han doing something like that, rather than buying anything expensive or anything purely frivolous. Plus, I just like the idea of him puttering around in a kitchen!
DeleteHoly cow. Erin Darroch, that image of a certain someone puttering around in a kitchen..... helllooo...! (Also, please, please, please develop that bunny, and link to the image ;) )
DeleteI'm going to reply to this too, because it got me thinking when you said that Han might not be as confident about things when it comes to Leia. I do agree with that for sure. I think as confident as he was that she thought he was hot and probably wanted to see him naked (because of course she did) he would also probably become concerned once he fell in love with her that that wouldn't be enough and wanting him that way would not overshadow the fact that he might not be the kind of man she'd want to marry and have babies with. I do think there would be some insecurity there, and I think I even touched on it in a little one-shot story I wrote a while ago.
DeleteAnd just as I was typing that I remembered a line from Shadows of Mindor (which I would actually recommend reading if you haven't, really enjoyable book and some great Han and Leia stuff) that has Han thinking and how even most of the time he won't admit it to HIMSELF let alone anyone else that he does sometimes worry that one day Leia will wake up and realize what a horrible mistake she's made. But then also says that he goes out of his way to make sure that she would never, ever regret falling in love with him. I'm sure the whole quote is in the book review here linked on the sidebar.
I mean I don't think Han spends a lot of time walking around feeling insecure about how Leia feels about him, but every once in a while, especially early on when they are still figuring each other out and trying to live together like a couple rather than just dealing with the war and sleeping together, I definitely think he'd think that.
Leia would probably have her moments too, but I think they would come from a different place. And Han has never been shy about letting his feelings be known or making it obvious how he feels, so I don't think she'd have as much opportunity to doubt or feel much insecurity.
I so agree, Zyra.
DeleteI always think of the Talking Heads' "Once in a Lifetime" - "How did I get here?"
He has to have moments at 2 in the morning where he wakes up and thinks that...I mean he has a ton of self-confidence to have dragged himself up from where he was left as an orphan and gone on and gotten out, to have gone past his criminal past and being busted out of the Imperials, then got his little freighter and set himself up as an independent, er, businessman. But that's not any background for being dropped into the midst of the Rebellion and falling for a Princess. Think of that look he gives Luke before they walk to get their medals - "can you believe this?"
Yes! I love the Mindor quote! Of course, I had to find it.
Delete"She was not only beautiful but brilliant and fiercely courageous, and she had done only one really foolish thing in her entire life: a couple of years ago, she had let herself fall in love with a dashing-but-impoverished tramp-freighter captain - well, okay, a disreputable smuggler on the run from Imperial authorities and various bounty hunters and crime lords, but who was counting? - and Han could never shake this lurking dead that if he, say, did something nasty to C-3PO, who, after all, usually meant well, Leia might suddenly wake up and realize what an awful mistake she'd made."
To be completely honest, I enjoy a slightly insecure Han because we, of course, think that's ridiculous. Leia loves him despite all of his "shortcomings".
I think it would be really interesting to see a fic where Leia switches places with Han in that aspect . . .
Yep, that's the quote. I do think Leia would have her moments as well. Probably mostly early on, and I think initially much of that insecurity would be about sex. I mean even without knowing details, she'd know that he had been with a number of women, likely mostly very experienced and sexually confident women. And I think for almost anyone in that sort of situation you might worry that he doesn't want to be stuck with just one person, or you're not going to be enough for him. I mean of course we know how he would feel about it, and I think we all agree that Leia would be a fast learner and Han wouldn't spend much time worrying about what he might be missing out on. But I do think that would be a thought that would creep in from time to time early in the relationship. And I'm sure I read someone's story recently that touched on that subject, and unfortunately I can't remember who wrote it or what it was. I kind of feel like maybe it was one of Erin and Justine's though, but I can't remember.
DeleteI also think at times she would worry that he wouldn't want to be tied down in general. Not just because he would be "stuck" with just one woman, but because he doesn't have his freedom and independence anymore. I'm one though who believes that he enjoyed that when he had it but he lived that way due to necessity, not because he preferred it. I think that's another aspect that got quoted in a book, I believe The New Rebellion, early on Han is thinking about how he used to be free to do whatever, but now is so much better.
Justine and I agree with you! We did touch on that in "Domestic Bliss" (that Leia might harbour some uncertainty about her ability to match up to or compete with whatever exciting shenanigans she imagines Han has experienced in the past, in terms of sex).
DeleteI like exploring that idea, which I think a lot of women have, that men want something altogether different from intimate relationships, or that it's strictly about sexual intercourse and "getting off". On the contrary, I believe many men enjoy the non-sexual aspects of intimacy almost as much as women do and, even when it comes to sex itself, they're not necessarily looking for someone who's a circus performer in bed.
In the early days of their relationship, I think Leia would come to realize that Han's expectations, desires and hopes are not that different from her own. And he's mushy as hell, too, when there's no one else around. ;)
Also: Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor is my favourite EU novel. It took me a while to get into it, as the writing style is a bit different. But oh boy does that author get Han and Leia, like no other EU author I can recall. And his Luke is pretty awesome, too: a total bad-ass, but still humble and sweet.
DeleteI think I started Shadows of Mindor but never finished. I know I have a copy and started reading it because I've got a couple H/L moments bookmarked.
DeleteStover definitely got it down, but whenever I want to go back and read some irresistible moments, I pick up anything with Denning's name on it.
Oh, go read Shadows of Mindor. I said it in my review, and I agree with Erin, it is my favorite Star Wars novel. And yes I've read and loved all of Denning's novels, but Mindor truly *feels* so much like Star Wars in a way so many of the other books don't. Really, truly just FUN. I adore Denning's characterizations of Han and Leia, but I just can't really categorize his books as fun in the same way.
DeleteThanks for commenting, Erin, I thought that one was from you guys, and I think I even commented on enjoying that particular aspect of it. And I do agree totally, that I think for Han (and a lot of men, probably) it's more than just what someone is doing to you or for you. I suspect he really, really enjoys the fact that he is in bed with someone who loves him and enjoys being with him. And I think one of the worst things for a woman is simply to be too timid or totally lacking in confidence and enthusiasm, and I just don't see Leia having issues in those departments.
Oh my GAWD that picture in the kitchen. *swoon*
DeleteI absolutely agree that a lot of men enjoy the non-sexual aspects of intimacy, though some may not admit it! Touch alone is such an important part; holding hands, a brush against the cheek, a hug, it all says "I'm here for you, and I care." I love stories about H/L that include a little cuddling or falling asleep in each other's arms, even sans smut :)
And I'm with CV73 and Erin, I totally go for the food angle. In my headcanon it's something that started gradually after ANH when Han just wanted to make sure that Leia ate, period. He'd invite her for dinners on the Falcon, bring back some of her favourite delicacies from his travels and such, and it just continued from there throughout their relationship. I see her as totally forgetting her own basic needs when she gets wrapped up in her work and worrying about everyone else, and feeding her is just another way in which he shows how much he cares.
I think that collection of 'bunnies' Erin and I have also includes a snippet for Domestic Bliss surrounding a romantic dinner that breaks out into a sexy food fight....so, so cliché, but I adore it. :)
Erin & Justine, that moment when he carved the initials into the rock was so purely in character for me for all the reasons identified here, I can't even tell you.
DeleteSeriously its a headcanon for me and was so IMMEDIATELY. Will never get over it.
Delete@imnothere24 Thank you for that. We love the idea of him being blatantly, unabashedly (but non-verbally) mushy, provided there's no one else around but Leia to know about it. We reckon, post-Battle of Endor and all that happened between them in those few days, it would be a sign of how much more secure he feels. Now he can show her his heart and not feel it's in any way risky.
DeleteThanks, guys. This is why I posted this, because it's fun to imagine them being cute and sweet with each other ;)
ReplyDeleteErin good point that Ha would probably be a little unsure as to how his gestures would go over. I'm under the impression that whatever experience he has with women prior to that, that kind of romantic expression is not something he has had the opportunity to use. And I think on some level, at least at first, he would still feel slightly concerned that what he's doing won't go over well, or whether it's ok or appropriate, or if she'll be like, wait, this guy isn't good enough for me, I need to get out of this! Of course she wouldn't feel that way, and would love anything he did for her. But it is interesting to think about their transition after the war is over, and they have to start acting like a "normal" couple.
Which reminds me of another thing I'd thought of before, but I don't know if I've ever brought it up because I had a hard time picturing it myself, but what do you think their first actual DATE might be like? I mean I doubt they had much chance to just go out to dinner while running from the Empire. I can see some insecurity from both of them when things settle down like that. Not that I think anything would change between them, just that it would be an odd thing once they are no longer at war and can just be a couple.
Good question... I think Leia might be the one to suggest they "go on a date", probably at some point after they've really settled down after the war and have time for such frivolities. Somehow, I doubt Han's erstwhile nomadic lifestyle would have been conducive to proper dating when he was younger. I picture him as having (ahem) friendly relations, shall we say, with women from time-to-time, but not so much for purposes of developing meaningful relationships or getting to know them better. Just for a bit of companionship and sex, in between jobs.
DeleteThat would, of course, be very different for him with Leia. I like the idea of him courting her, in the old-fashioned sense, throughout the period between ANH and ESB. I can imagine some impromptu "dates" happened in that time frame.
(For the record, I don't subscribe to the notion that they "always fought". On the contrary, I think the tension between them in ESB is because they'd grown very close in the years since the Battle of Yavin...close enough for Leia to begin to think something might actually come of it. She got her hopes up, and then Ord Mantell happened and it all went up in smoke. But I digress...)
So, I picture Han perhaps making a few attempts at date-nights in that interlude...e.g. stargazing atop the Falcon or making her dinner (and, oops, he forgot to tell Chewie or Luke to come along). Stuff like that, where he angles to get her alone and get to know her, break down her defenses and win her over.
But after Endor, I think Leia might initiate something more traditional...a fun night out somewhere, where they can focus on each other and just enjoy being together like a "normal" couple.
Sorry I got caught up responding to other things and I forgot to reply to this. First, I totally agree that there is no way they spent that time always fighting. It's crazy and really actually probably sets a terrible example to think that they fought constantly for years and then suddenly he kissed her and they fell in love and that was it. I think they had plenty of quiet, civil conversation, for sure. And I think they connected and felt close. And then they would sometimes fight which would keep them from getting REALLY close ;)
DeleteI do kind of agree Leia would maybe be the one to suggest a proper date first after the whole thing settles down. I think Han would of course love to go along with it, but Leia would suggest it. I actually think that kind of thing would be the beginning of Han's insecurities though, like suddenly realizing they have to figure out how to have a normal life, and he's not really used to that.
If you aren't already reading it, can I recommend a fic that was recently recommended to me by KR, Cicatrick and JustineGraham: A Journey of a Thousand Miles by GreyAthena. She is doing such a great job of tracing the development of their close relationship during that period, as well as the reasons why it takes so long for them to move to the next stage. Han is such a sweetheart in it (but still totally in-character). I'm really enjoying it!
DeleteExample excerpt:
"The princess first," Rieekan said. The hole in the door was high and she had to stand on a seat to reach her arms through it. Her arms were seized and she was hauled out of the pod, set on the ground beside it, and immediately caught up in an embrace so tight that she was lifted off her feet.
"Han," she tried to protest, but the word was half-smothered in his shirt.
"You could have broken your neck," he muttered, still holding her painfully close but lowering her until her feet at least touched the ground.
She tried to shove him off. "If I had, you'd be killing me right now."
"You're not hurt?" He released her but started running his hands up and down her sides. She smacked him away and took a step back.
"I'm fine, stop it."
"You almost . . ." With only a shift in his stance to warn her, he surged forward and seized her again, holding her close. To her great disgrace she noticed that she was shaking, and that it was very, very tempting to lay her head on his chest and just stay there.
They really did almost, she realized. Almost . . . crashed, blew up, whatever. And instead of walking it off like a soldier, she was feeling cuddly. "Han," she tried again.
"I've got you," he said in response. Which wasn't what she meant at all; she'd meant to extricate herself, but. His voice was shaking, she realized, and his hands, and she suddenly understood that he wasn't trying to comfort her.
Well, he was, but that wasn't why his grip on her was so tight.
Oh.
A tiny brick in the wall she'd built against him fell away, as her perception slowly realigned itself. In whatever way - however he saw her - she suddenly couldn't doubt that he cared. Very much.
Oh.
She pressed her forehead against his chest and breathed deeply.
Oh, my. A story about a first date could be quite a good read. That would be great. I can imagine all the things that might go awry. Or if they were already close but hadn't been on many actual dates, how would they close out the evening?
DeleteI agree with Zyra. No way they spent all that time fighting, otherwise why would Han have stuck around and Leia let him stick around? And Luke would have done something to make them stop as well. Did they fight? Yes. Was it non stop? No.
DeleteI'm sure there were things they agreed on. I've really wanted to write the "early on" story, where Luke is being threatened/being harassed, something - and Han and Leia look at each other for about 45 seconds and turn as one to take that particular person out.
My other headcanon is that once they stop with the bickering on Bespin, they trot it back out as a ruse to keep people from thinking they actually are a united front, to make each other laugh, and to make Luke laugh because he knows why they fought most of the time anyway.
Someone wrote a cute story where Han takes Leia out for dinner somewhere fancy and it's a complete fiasco but damned if I can remember the name of the story!
I definitely want to see ideas about them being a couple after the war. I'm right now writing the three after the war and basically in their own version of "House Hunters Coruscant" - it's fun to play with the idea of three people who've basically done nothing but exist in a war, living on ships and bases trying to figure out how to pick somewhere permanent to live. Especially since none of them have ever had to figure it out before. I think it's probably the same for Han and Leia and dating. I've written all of them (or combinations) doing things like getting dinner or shopping. I mean, you know they have to, but how do they negotiate buying the apartment and groceries and furniture and all that.
ReplyDeleteI think it's probably because when I do these tasks, my brain wanders off to think "what are malls like in a GFFA" or groceries. Do you send your droids? Would Han and Leia have a chef? Are there sentient Roombas?
I would do the less annoying thing and put this with the thread where we were talking about it, but I can't remember for the life of me where it's at.
ReplyDeleteSo, I finally checked out Wishful Drinking from my library (took a while with so many people requesting it). I read it in two school days and I can't describe how much I loved it!
Now, I'm just waiting for someone to return their copy of Postcards to the library . . .
No problem, this thread isn't exactly getting out of control with comments. Isn't it great? I had actually forgotten that the book came before the show. I think I read it in a day. And for some reason my library used to have Postcards from the Edge, because that was how I read it, and now they don't anymore. Which is really too bad because I'd like to read it again.
DeleteMy English teacher is pretty cool and I was finishing it up during while the rest of my class was discussing the book I was supposed to have been reading the last couple days. He recognized what I was reading and we had a mini conversation later about what an amazing writer Carrie was and why we both enjoyed Wishful Drinking so much.
DeleteI thought that the show came first. When all of us were trading videos to watch back and forth after Dec.27, I watched the show on YouTube and I was under the impression that the book was based on the show.
Sorry, you're right and my brain worked that out wrong. The show was before the book, which is actually the weirder way for it to work I think. I should refrain from commenting on anything for the night since obviously my mind isn't working right. ;)
DeleteHaha! That's alright. Even though I watched the show first, I still really enjoyed it. When I was reading during one of my classes, I would start laughing out loud every couple minutes and everyone would just stare at me. I don't think it helped that, with certain lines, I remembered them from the show, so I had her tone saying it too. Location, location, location.
Delete