Another SPOILER-Ridden Post For More Comments

I needed to put a good photo up. And we needed to do another post because when the comments start getting too long clearly there are some issues. You can comment on whichever posts you want, I just think it is easier to spread it out a little bit.

I would like to say I'm glad you've all found your way here. It is nice to see so many people who are similarly affected by this. And let me also say that I recognize that perhaps it is a little silly to be so emotionally drawn into this, but since it appears that there are quite a few of us who feel so similarly, it clearly is not that unique of a situation.

Why did EVERYTHING about them basically have to be so, so terrible? I'm starting to wonder if maybe it would've been better if Han had skipped town not long after ROTJ and they never saw each other again. At least relative to what we are getting. But really, every aspect of their lives is awful. Even my brother who shares my love of Star Wars but I don't believe is aware of my Han and Leia obsession said without me prompting, was it really necessary to have Han and Leia split up? Couldn't they have accomplished the exact same thing and kept them together? Exactly. I mean, Leia even still could've been mad at him for something to keep the interactions tense, but it didn't have to be THAT bad, did it?

So the ONE kid they had is absolute pure evil. Basically you're telling us that Han and Leia falling in love and procreating is now what might destroy the galaxy. It's all their fault. I'm also curious if people in general know he is their son or if it is some sort of secret. I might feel better about this whole situation if they had had another kid or two and those were ok. But seriously, just why? This makes me curious though when we go back and fill that in to find out if there was a decision there or an accident or what. Clearly in our own fanfic and even in the old EU a strong theme was Leia worrying that any child she had could be the next Vader. Would she have been worried about that? Did they decide to go for it anyway or had they decided not to risk it and it happened anyway? What about how long they waited before they got married? Watch now to make it all worse (if that were possible) they'll have Leia accidentally get pregnant and then they are reluctantly forced to get married so there is resentment about that as well.

This will also bother me even more if Rey turns out to be Luke's. I mean first there is a lot that needs to be filled in about who the mother is and what happened there. But also it appears that it would make it so that Leia's kid is pure evil, and Luke's kid is he awesome-est most badass and flawless Jedi girl who ever lived. That seems a little unreasonable. Especially since presumably she was left to fend for herself, which doesn't usually result in such well-adjusted children, while Ben was presumably loved and cared for. Or at least they attempted to do that, because from what a lot of you are telling me about the novelization, he was basically evil from birth. Which also makes me want to ask how exactly Snoke's manipulation works. Is it telepathic? Did he somehow have access to him? I don't quite understand, nor do I understand where he came from or if they knew about him before or what.

Random side note: how did Han and Leia have a son that was so freaking tall? I mean Han was tall, sure, but Leia would surely dilute those height genes quite a bit.

Let's see, other things that were the worst: Oh how about how Han hasn't had the Falcon in YEARS and then he finally gets it back only to fly it for like 20 minutes and then die? Yeah, that's awesome. Again, what was the point? Could it not have been missing for, say, a year or 2 maybe? A few months? Do those ships need fuel or anything? If it's been sitting there for years how is it so ready to go? Why did you take his ship away from him?

And of course let's get back to the real reason we're all here: the separation. Honestly, who else would've taken the whole movie as a LOT less of a kick in the teeth if not for that? Years and years of being apart, and for what? Also seriously has the Resistance been fighting for 15+ years? Would Han really have completely immersed himself in smuggling and disappeared? Would he not at all like, try to stay sort of close and check on Leia sometimes? What if she had died? But seriously why was their ONE child the worst human ever created?!?!? It also seems that if that was Han's back story, he would've probably been a fairly tortured soul. You can run away all you want, but that kind of stuff would have to weigh incredibly heavily on anyone's conscience. Our favorite characters have been relegated to living a miserably tortured existence for years. How many is unclear but possibly all the way back to right after we last saw them.

Speaking of that, also thinking this morning, Kylo's whole character felt very underdeveloped and rushed. I was also a little surprised at how early in the movie they told us Han was his father. At that point we weren't positive that Leia was his mother, but it was pretty well obvious before he started talking about his grandfather. The "pull to the light" thing was interesting to me. But at the same time, it was so brief and frankly other than him actually saying it, there didn't appear to be based on his actions any actual internal struggle there. Even when Han walked out to see him, and please debate this with me if you disagree here, I didn't actually see him as struggling with what he had to do. I saw him as manipulating Han to come closer to make it easier. I mean, "Will you help me?" was just asking basically if Han would let his son kill him. That's how I saw it, anyway. I did not see him struggling with that decision. Was Han a bad dad or was Kylo brainwashed into thinking he was? I almost don't even want to know the answer.

And Leia. When I was worried about all of this awfulness being true, and consoling myself with the fact that they couldn't possibly do ALL of these bad things to them, could they? Oh, yes they can! Anyway, even when I was wondering about it, I wanted to ask has Leia ever had a happy moment in her life? Born to Vader, mother dies right after she is born, separated from her brother and "hidden."  Ok, her adoptive parents actually apparently were really good people and she had a decent childhood, so that's a good start I suppose. But then she is a young senator and has this innate sense of duty all of the time, always living for other people and not herself. Gets captured and her planet and her entire family is blown up right in front of her, loses everything she had.

Ok, so she finds some new friends. One of them turns out to be her brother. Cool! A brother! And he's a pretty good guy and we were already friends! Don't get too used to him, though. And then she meets this really hot guy and he drives her kind of crazy but there is just something about him and eventually he kisses her and oh my god that was amazing and they fall in love and some tough stuff happens there but in the end they decide to stick together. Except maybe everything about that sucks too and nobody is ever entirely happy there. And then maybe they get married, or maybe she gets pregnant and then they get married, we don't really know. Did they want to get married? Were they over-the-moon in love and couldn't wait or did they just kind of get married because they had to or what? Based on the way things have been going, I'm suspecting it was all reluctantly or begrudgingly or something. Anyway, she has a baby. Maybe she wanted it and maybe she didn't. Again based on the general trend of things, I'm just going to assume the worst and say that she never intended on having a baby and perhaps just to add insult to injury, the particular sexual encounter that resulted in this child was awkward and/or unsatisfying and maybe they were mad at each other or something and neither one of them is happy about having a kid but they don't know what else to do. (for real though, I'm actually curious to see if because of the importance of the character if in some book or comic they will actually kind of make a big deal about going back to when he was conceived. Not that I think they will be all explicit about the sex or anything, just that it will be apparent when it happened)

Ok, so she has a baby. That's supposed to be great and joyous, right? Except this is Leia we're talking about, and apparently her baby was evil immediately, so clearly having a baby is the opposite of good for her. He probably screams all the time and looks at her with baby rage eyes and Leia never gets any sleep and tries desperately to just be a loving mother but just gets nothing back from her evil child. This madness drives Han insane because he can't deal with it, Leia is all consumed by the Sith-baby and he stars to resent both of them. Maybe at this point he starts going away and distancing himself? Not leaving her completely, but basically checked out. So now Leia is basically alone with Sith-baby who hates her and the man she sort of loved but maybe already didn't anymore is gone. Sith-baby gets older and more Sith-like, and remember that cool brother? Well he can help, so she sends the kid there but instead he turns completely evil and your cool brother disappears and your son killed a bunch of Jedi and your husband runs away and never wants to see you again. She is alone with no family and no friends and the knowledge that her son is out being super duper evil and constantly killing people and will probably eventually kill you, too. For real, this is Leia Organa's life. How has she not hurled herself off a bridge at this point? Clearly some of that I made up and may be wrong about, but given the general trend toward the most awful things you can think of, I'm probably not far off.

Anyway, where was I going with all of this? Oh yeah, mostly just talking about how they made everything the worst. Maybe ONE good kid? Maybe not as long or permanent of an estrangement? Maybe Han had the Falcon? Maybe they got to make up before Han died? Or maybe just Han didn't die? I love your resurrection theories but I'm really gonna have to go with him being gone for good. As much as I love the idea of him coming back, how are we to believe any deaths going forward if we find out people can just come back? He looked really dead, and I have to say I still tear up every time I picture his limp body tumbling down into the abyss. And Leia knowing he's gone, but what does it matter to her anymore? He's been gone to her basically forever and she very well may have never seen him again.

Remember when the EU was the worst thing that happened to Han and Leia? At least there they were happily married. A few rough patches but once they made up in the NJO they were inseparable. I wish I could remember exactly how outraged I was when Chewie died, and the estrangement, and then Anakin died and then Jacen was a Sith and Jaina had to kill him. There were a lot of tough moments in there. This also reminds me of when we first started talking about this and it was like, cool, no more EU! And then they said we'll keep some stuff but get rid of others and it was like, so, what if they keep the worst parts of it and get rid of the good parts? Oh, good, you did just that. Sith child, great. Oh but instead of keeping them married or having any good kids you'll just get rid of those things. Awesome. Anyone else miss Jaina Solo terribly right about now? Anyway, what I was really getting at here, is I wish I could remember how upset I was, and how long it took me to get over it. Because before this movie came out I had certainly been able to erase from my head the thought that their 2 sons had died and one was a horrible Sith. I could write my fanfic with those 3 kids being young and good kids without constantly having in the back of my mind how horrible things became. I just pretended that stuff didn't happen.

Will I be able to do that again? Will I be able to watch the OT and Han and Leia without suddenly wanting to push them away and be like, listen guys, maybe go find some other people. Or at least don't do anything until we get Leia sterilized. Can I get back to that happy place in my head that forgets the terribleness that apparently followed and insert my own happily ever after? I do hope so, but I'm not sure. It's certainly going to be more of a challenge having it be in a movie and not a book. Also, what about all of that Han and Leia couples merchandise? Who wants to model themselves after that now? People who have things engraved on wedding rings and such. Would it have really been so difficult to have just one successful relationship in these movies?

One final note now with you guys talking about irredeemable patricide. I do agree that seems like something you can't come back from, which is why it bothers me that it happened so early and without really giving us a whole lot of background or context to that whole situation/relationship. Yeah we know SOMETHING happened there, we know the general idea that Han is his dad and it didn't go so well. But we are never given much insight into the actual struggle for Kylo between light and dark, or how he REALLY feels/felt about his father and if he struggles with those feelings. I don't see much of that. We are given a brief glimpse of something, and then he kills him. Almost like this should've been the second movie and the first one should've covered his entire background and maybe give us more insight into why that all went down how it did. 

I think I've ranted long enough for now. Mostly this was just supposed to be a place to put more comments but clearly I got carried away.