This post originally appeared HERE on March 16, 2011.
As we discussed, we're going to bring back some old blog posts from the early days of the blog, where we really focused a lot more on actual writing stuff.
I'm not sure what exactly we had in mind to accomplish when we decided to start this blog a few days ago, but one thing I think that we can do in writing it is to get other people to see that probably just about any of us out there writing fanfic has the same insecurities and misgivings as those of you who have written something and are too afraid to post or have at least been thinking about writing something but don't think you'd even be able to show it to anyone.
If anything, we should all at least sit down and write, if that's what you want to do. Don't be afraid to write something that isn't any good. Here's a little secret: almost all of us aren't any good when we first get started. But you know what? If you keep at it, you get better. And one of the main ways to get better is to ask someone for help. I had a writing teacher in college (I know, some of you right now are thinking, she studied writing in college? Seriously? She should ask for her money back) who told us all that the first stuff we wrote for her was going to suck. And she used that word. But by the end, we weren't going to suck so much. And she was right.
I think all of us need to not be afraid to suck at first. But nobody ever said you had to publish the sucky stuff. The best thing you can do is start sending your stuff to a trusted friend who can help you and take a look at it and give you constructive criticism. The trick is, you have to be willing to take the constructive criticism in the manner in which it was intended. It's called constructive for a reason, they only want to make you a better writer. And honestly, a lot of times it doesn't take long at all before you start automatically fixing those funny little nuances that you find you use in your writing that lead to a less-than-perfect story.
Some people struggle with punctuation or paragraphs or switching tense within a sentence. None of these things make you a bad writer, it's just something that you need to be made aware of so you are looking out for them in the future. I know the first time I sent something of mine to someone to get beta read, one of the things that was pointed out to me was my sentence structure. It was all the same, never varying. He went there. She did this. He said that. I hadn't even realized I'd been doing it. Does that make me a bad writer? Well, maybe. But by being made aware of it and on the lookout for it I could at least vary things and make it just a little bit better. It's why we can sometimes go back and look at the first things we wrote and cringe at how bad they are, but we all need to start somewhere, right? Otherwise, how can we possibly get better?
For some reason I have been asked by more than one person to beta read their stuff, not just Push.* Really, she had just contacted me after I reviewed her first story and she asked how one went about getting a beta reader, because she didn't have one. And I offered. In retrospect, I shouldn't have done that ;) Totally kidding! No, really though, if you looked at the first stuff she sent me and then at what she sent me just today you'd see a huge difference in the amount of corrections being made. Perhaps some of that is laziness on my part (kidding there, too) but really it was just that she became aware of certain things she was doing that weren't quite correct and with practice, she doesn't do them anymore. Most of it was just mundane stuff like punctuation, but still, as a reader it can be distracting when some of those things show up incorrectly in a story, so it's always good to let someone else take a look at it before you publish. Also simple stuff like using the same word a couple of times in a paragraph when you could vary it. That's something else you might just completely overlook if you're trying to edit your own stuff.
I'll mention another writer who several months ago asked if I'd be willing to take a look at something she'd written. You know her as Digs. And if you don't know her, you should, and you should immediately go to ff.net and start reading her story "Children of the Future."** I don't know why she asked me specifically, but I was so glad that she did. She sent me the first ten or so pages of the story she'd written and wasn't sure if the idea was worth pursuing. Are you kidding? I thought it was one of the coolest, most unique ideas for a Han and Leia fanfic I'd ever come across. That's just one example of a story that might not have gone anywhere if she hadn't taken the leap and decided to let someone else look at it. It was also another good example of growing as a writer, as if you saw a comparison between the amount of editing I did on the first batch she sent me as compared to the last batch, you'd be amazed. And again, this has nothing to do with her abilities as a writer or storyteller, it was mostly just punctuation errors and such, but those things can be distracting in an otherwise great story and you never want anything to take away from that. And yes, you should be jealous, because I know how that story ends ;) You won't be disappointed!***
It can also be very encouraging to have someone else read something of yours and give you feedback on it. For most of us, it is nearly impossible to look at our own writing objectively. We are way harsher critics of our own stuff than anyone else is likely to be. Even if we are helping each other become better writers by mentioning things that could be improved upon, it is equally if not more important to mention the things that you like about someone's story. It's funny how we tend to notice the negative feedback far more than the positive stuff. I swear, if I get one negative review I'm not sure that twenty positive ones would keep me from fixating on the one negative.
Anyway, this blog post has gone on too long, I think! But please, don't be afraid to share your work. And don't be afraid of a bit of constructive criticism. It will only make you a stronger writer. We all had to start somewhere!
2017 footnotes:
*I don't usually beta read anymore. I would like to be able to do it more, but it got to be too much work.
**This is still true. Go read that story if you haven't.
***It's finished, so you can read it in its entirety!
I wish I'd had this adice when I was first starting. Looking back now, I wish I hadn't published half of some of my first stabs at fanfiction, though I did not learn A LOT from that disaster.
ReplyDeleteI remember reading Diggs's story, absolutely enjoying it (I still occasionally go back to reread it. Over and over again), and hoping that I'd come up with a story idea that unique.
As for reader critique, I always find it unbelievable when someone sends me three paragraphs saying how much they love one of my stories and I just tell them, "Oh, you're so nice! You don't have to lie!" Still, I don't know anyone who doesn't enjoy those one or two people who literally comment three or four paragraphs and really think about that story (Sofie C. is one of most favorite people ever!). It's nice to know someone cares even if you think your story is trash.
I think everyone has stories out there they wish they'd had help with.
DeleteReader critique can be tough. I always find it hard when sometimes I want to send some sort of unsolicited advice, with a story that is mostly good but just has some small issues and you can tell the person doesn't have a second set of eyes to help edit. Really small stuff, like then/than, but still enough to annoy a grammar nerd like myself.
You're right too that long, detailed reviews are awesome and always super appreciated. All reviews are nice, but those are just awesome.
I think I've finally taught myself to be content with the people that just keep it short and/or say the same thing every time because at least they let me know they care.
DeleteI agree that reader critique is a touchy area. I always want to be encouraging and positive in my responses to writers because however good or bad I think something is, in the ff world everyone gets a creative outlet and everyone has an equal right to have their storytelling read, which is something I love about ff world. It's way more supportive than pro fic world.
DeleteI always do wonder, though, when I see something that strikes me as out of character (meaning out of character as the character has developed in that story, not in the pro fic world), whether I should say it or not. I do say it when I'm beta-ing - I just note it and then leave it up to the writer, because often they have a reason for what may seem jarring to me. When I'm reading something and leaving a review, I'd never say it in my public review as I think that can sometimes encourage others to pile on, which I think is wrong in reviews of non-pro fic. If I felt it was really really really important to say, I might DM it, but I also really never do that.
What do people think? To DM or not to DM when you see something that feels off-kilter?
Unless I'm acting as beta-reader, I am very unlikely (actually, not at all likely) to offer any sort of criticism, either via DM or in a review. I guess that makes my reviews not really reviews so much as just praise and encouragement. I try to find something that I particularly enjoyed and comment on that. I would feel really awkward about pointing out faults or areas for improvement (either publicly or privately) without being personally invited by the author to do so.
DeleteThe thing is, if the story is really poorly written or if the errors are too numerous, I probably won't even finish the story, and the author would never hear from me at all. I recognize that tiptoeing away is not a particularly helpful thing to do, but I seriously doubt whether most writers want anything more than praise and encouragement? And I'm afraid that some might even see such comments as an attack or a "flame".... so I just keep my mouth shut!
I agree that unless someone has asked me to beta (I used to, long time ago), I wouldn't critique someone's story, especially in characterization. There are some authors that I really like, but every once in awhile they have Han or Leia say something that I feel is really out of character, which has led me to believe it's out of *my* character. Everyone puts their own slant on these characters, and since they aren't our own anyway...to each his or her own. And yes, if it's really bad (in my opinion), I also just move on.
DeleteWould we ever be brave enough to put a first or second draft out for the sole purpose of having people critique it?
Yeah, I have no standard policy for when I will or won't send unsolicited criticism. More recently I tend to stay out of it more, because I don't do much beta reading anymore. So if I was offering a suggestion usually I would also offer to help beta some of their stuff. So I don't necessarily want to be like, hey this needs editing, without actually offering to edit.
DeleteIt sometimes depends on some factors. I've seen plenty of stories where you can actually tell the person is a good writer as well as having good story ideas, they're just not very well versed in punctuation or some other distracting things. The GOOD news is that those things are usually pretty easily taught. It's like with my example of Diggs up there, the first chapter she sent me I think I barely went a paragraph without having to fix something. But the story, the dialog and the writing and descriptions were all great, so I knew it was worth the effort to fix it. So I didn't just correct it, I explained a lot of stuff. And by the time we got to the later chapters I rarely had to fix anything.
In character is tougher. I think people tend to appreciate when you point something simple out like, "Hey you used this word twice in this paragraph, and you used they're when you should've used their" or whatever. Telling someone what they wrote is out of character is tougher I think without seeming at least a little bit insulting. Like, say, an overly weepy Leia, or a Han whose dialog is a little too dumb or something. I just kind of let those go and maybe find another story depending on how out of character it seems to me.
I definitely have a problem when it comes to either Leia or Han being overemotional. First, I can't come up with a single story idea that doesn't have some sort of dramatic event going on, so then, of course, I end up with a really dramatic Leia and I hate it because I KNOW I do it all the time!
DeleteI can think of one chapter in particular where I got a few reviews that all agreed.
It kind of drives me insane when people really dumb down Han's dialogue. I really cringe when there's a fanfic where Han says 'ain't' constantly.
Yes, Jaina! I hate stories where Han is played as dumb - that will throw me out of a story so fast.
DeleteUnless someone's asking me to beta read, I stay out of commenting on things I don't like in a story - I just comment on the things I like. If I feel you've mischaraterized any of the big 3, I just stop reading.
I agree so much on Han dialog. I think it's sometimes ok, but definitely overdone at other times. It's like, we get it, Han don't talk so good ;) "Ain't" I don't actually see him using it that often. I know he says it in the movie but I feel like even he at that point was exaggerating to make a point.
DeleteFor the dramatic stuff, I think one of the reasons people are drawn to those scenarios is because, well, it's easier. Certain scenarios are just an easy way to create drama. And I think when you're maybe less experienced as a writer it's just easier to come up with these ideas. I mean, for myself one of my first stories involves Leia thinking Han died but really he got amnesia. Looking back now, my tip is, if your plot sounds right out of a soap opera, you might be looking for the "easy" drama ;). And I had an incredibly thorough beta reader assigned to me for that one (this was way back in the olden days of Han and Leia specific sites that would screen their material before posting) who pointed out that I was going way overboard with Leia crying and thinking about Han. I think I had like, 3 separate scenes that were basically the same thing, and only that.
I don't know if I have a simple solution to that, but maybe it helps to know that we have kind of all been there. Or would've been there if we had written during a certain time in our lives. I should say I don't think that means that we can never write stories like that, just that I get what you're saying. Keep on writing, and hopefully you'll come up with some ideas you feel are really worth getting out there.
I think I was lucky I started writing in the dark ages before the Internet and I had stories rejected by zines back in the day, and I just kept on going. It helped that I had friends who enjoyed reading my stuff. I'll also say I have a friend who had a teacher make mean comments on her writing so she had just stopped until she became my grad school roommate and I and my other friend got her writing again. She's now had published Sherlock Holmes pastiches (in addition to her historical nonfiction writing)
DeleteThe other stories I cringe about are in zines that no one has anymore ;-) One of the beauties of writing in so many fandoms back before the Internet!
I remember some of my first stabs at fanfiction before I wrote my first "decent" fanfic. I actually got some attention for it then I remembered my other stuff and immediately deleted ALL of it.
DeleteThat's kind of the good news/bad news thing about how it's a free-for-all on posting stories now. I didn't find stories until we had internet, but even then for the most part you had to find someone with a web site and submit something and they'd have to accept it or they would have some beta readers of their own who would have to help you out first. Most things passed some sort of quality control. Or like the Corellian Embassy I think only posted stories that had previously been in zines. So things at least had to go through a second set of eyes once before getting out there.
DeleteBut it's still cool that we can all just post whenever we want, too. We all find what we like eventually.
JainaDurron, I have a personal rule that I won't delete any of my old stuff, no matter how much it makes me cringe now. The early stuff is the only stuff that I won't go back and read, but I do leave it there. I think it's good to show you how far you've come, even maybe to show others how far you've come. Also, usually somebody, somewhere liked it, and would be upset if you deleted it. So there's that, too.
DeleteNo, I couldn't! I get the idea, but my first stabs I made when I was in middle school were so horrid, I can't even begin to explain (and I don't want to). I just keep the memories of those scary times to make myself feel better whenever I have an "ehh" chapter now.
DeleteI can't see myself ever deleting any of what what I've written post-ALS (what I consider to be my first decent work), even if that sequel was a bit over-dramatic. Which it most certainly was.
Also, when I write a new story, I hush the inner-critic by reminding myself it's definitely not my worst work.
Oh, middle school? All right, you get a pass for deleting. I am not young enough to have had internet in middle school. I AM young enough to have had it in high school, but I didn't discover fanfic until college. If I'd written and posted things in middle school, I think I'd probably want to take them down too. Although I'd still have liked to keep them at least for myself just to see what kinds of things I wrote about back then, because that would be kind of interesting.
DeleteTold you. Yeah, it was pretty horrific. The stuff of nightmares, I tell you. Every writing/fanfiction sin there is . . .
DeleteI can't wait to read the story! This is an awesome post, very inspiring to continue writing. It is super intimidating to post something alongside some truly epic stories, but I have found that while I think my story is good, when I actually go to post it, all of a sudden I go into super edit mode and the story becomes much better. It's like the last 10 minutes before company comes and the house gets cleaned up right quick!
ReplyDeleteIs this a good place to search out a beta reader? I offer myself as one. Anyone want to swap stories?
This is as good a place as any to ask for a beta reader. I don't mind if you use this space for that.
DeleteAnd yes, especially recently, posting stories is tougher than ever. Several years ago there wasn't much action so anything you posted would probably get a fair amount of attention. Definitely harder right now. But still, we all have to get our stuff out there.
I actually really enjoy acting as beta-reader and I would offer now if I weren't up to my eyeballs in work and family stuff (we just moved to a new house and there's a ton of work to be done). Beta reading can be time-consuming, but I also find it satisfying to tweak and polish a story and help make it that little bit better. Good luck...I hope you find someone!
DeleteOh, that is a really good story. Highly recommend it.
ReplyDeleteAnd Zyra is a heck of a beta reader. So is my buddy Claire. :) Mostly I find other writers or people willing to swap help. My biggest problem is weeding out repetition. And varying actions like smiling. I have such a habit of repeating the same lines in different ways and have to give things a good edit so it's not as bad.
Smiling, rolling eyes, laughing, sighing. SIGHING! I hate editing and realizing that the characters could probably do something more than just sigh.
DeleteOh, man. So true on sighing. We need another word for it. :)
DeleteIn response to Han's usual snide remarks, Leia noisily expressed her irritation.
DeleteHow about that? ;)
Eye-rolling and sighing. Yes. I'm guilty. I also use grumbled too much. Han grumbles a lot in my stories. Leia rolls her eyes. Both sigh too much.
DeleteLike if I wrote Jaina's sentence above, it would read "Leia rolled her eyes and sighed as she heard Han grumble under his breath." :)
Lol, Kels, me too. Good one Jaina.
DeleteI'm laughing because my Han "rumbles" (not "grumbles") a lot and Leia rolls her eyes allllllllll the time. It's tricky for me to avoid some of these things, because I see them as major elements of what makes them recognizable and "in-character". (Well, maybe not the sighing.... They sigh a lot, too. hah!)
DeleteI try to throw in the odd "drew a deep breath and expelled it in a rush" or something. lol
Han does grumble a lot ;-) My favorite comments on my fic have been the people who say "I love your Han, he's cranky" because, Maker love him, he is. And Leia and Luke know exactly how to push his buttons - I think sometimes they do it just to get him out of a worse mood. I also think that Luke secretly doesn't think he's "home" unless Han and Leia are snarking at each other and he worries when they don't.
DeleteYeah, sighing, eye rolling, grumbling - I use sputtering a lot too.
I feel like Han might be a lot less cranky once he's regularly having sex ;) But if he is in the Falcon with Chewie for a week? Yeah, cranky!
DeleteI'm sure Chewie is too ;-) As an aside, the absolute funniest thing has been seeing BTS footage and hearing Peter Mayhew's British accent delivering actual dialogue. I suppose I never thought about how that worked but when I saw the bit in the control room with Peter saying "that old man's mad" and then Harrison saying "Boy you said it, Chewie," just cracked me up no end.
DeleteGahhh! I just went to my fic to work on it and, literally, the last sentence I wrote consists of Leia rolling her eyes!!
DeleteThis is the sort of dangerous part of pointing some of these things out specifically. I mean, sometimes you just gotta have Leia rolling her eyes. And sometimes Han really is going to flash his lopsided grin. I remember there were a few terms that people pointed out are somewhat overused in the Legends EU books. Like, people were always pursing their lips. I seriously rarely read that outside of EU Star Wars books, where characters are doing it all the time. And these people get paid to write and have professional editors helping them out.
DeleteI guess my point is, sometimes a term fits. The trick is to not use it too many times in succession, and only use it when appropriate. I mean, people sigh a lot, too. Even that can be varied by itself a little. Like, "She heaved a sigh" as opposed to "Leia sighed."
Lol. I'm sure it's fun to push Han's buttons a little bit. Have to keep family on their toes. :)
DeleteAnd I second or third or fourth that "Children of the Future" is a fantastic story. I think about that one a lot.
ReplyDelete"If anything, we should all at least sit down and write, if that's what you want to do."
ReplyDeleteSo, odd question, but how do you do that? I haven't written any fanfic type stuff in years, though stories flit around in my head. But I do write for other purposes, and have always found it hard to just write without, I guess, beta-ing at the same time. It really gets in the way! So how do you just sit down and write without letting your inner critic interfere along the way?
I don't know if there is a real strategy here except just DO it. Set a timer, say you'll write for 3 minutes, or 5 minutes or however long you think you can tolerate, and just write, uninhibited. Doesn't even really have to be on the subject you're planning on writing about. Write everything you can think of about ice cream, if you want. It doesn't really matter. The point of this sort of thing is just to get you writing and not thinking too much, and then you get a little more used to writing, and you can maybe get a little better at doing it for your stories or whatever.
DeleteFor me it's easier with stories or scenes I know I'm excited about. One of the hardest things is writing those scenes that are kind of getting you to the stuff you're actually excited about, so it's a little more boring, doesn't flow as easier, and you wind up thinking too much and doing what you said, kind of beta reading along the way. I know for me though once I hit those scenes I'm excited about, the words flow more quickly and I'm not spending as much time editing or thinking about it because I'm excited to get the whole scene down.
I don't know that there is any other better way to approach it, really.
I think Zyra has a good suggestion. Just do something, keep the time short, and see where it takes you. Planning what you want to write about even just a general idea may help too. I can get bogged down in editing. Seems overwhelming at times as I have a tendency to overthink. Last time I found to it easier and less threatening to edit the story in chunks. Also you may want to find a smaller editor screen or keep it minimized. Then you're not staring at a bunch of white space.
DeleteOne of the best books I've read on writing, Natalie Goldberg's "Writing Down the Bones" recommends just setting a time, sitting down with a junky notebook, and writing - don't stop, don't think, just write. Fill the page.
DeleteI usually try and throw down as much of the scene as I hear in my head first then go back to edit. My beta readers will tell you that I am a dialogue person first, then I go back and throw in descriptions later. I think that's mainly because most times, I "hear" a scene first.
I also write in bits - it's rare I write the story start to finish. I usually have one scene and then start fleshing it out. The TFA fix it - I had the way to save Han, then I had to back fill so that I could get to that scene. I still ended up deleting about the same number of pages that I actually had of story, and refocused it when one of my beta readers asked me "what story are you trying to tell?" I really think that's a very important question to ask yourself.
Oh thanks for reminding me about how some people are better at writing certain things more than others. I'm all about dialog too. If I could write only dialog, I would love that. But you need descriptions, which I'm terrible at! I agree though, write the stuff that is easier for you and then go back and fill in or improve the rest.
DeleteDoes anybody write fan fic in screenplay or play format? That may be cheating a bit, but it allows you to skimp on the descriptions and go for the gusto on dialogue!
DeleteThat sounds like something I need to try....
DeleteNever tried it. Eventually I'll do more screenplay writing, but it wouldn't be for fanfic, because I don't think anyone would want to READ a story written like that. But it would for sure be a preferable medium for me due to the aforementioned dislike of descriptions.
Delete@Erma - When I started feeling the urge to write H/L fan fiction again, I found myself a bit stymied by my inner critic (who does not seem to know when to shut the hell up).
ReplyDeleteI think part of what helped me was just making a slight mental shift from constantly wondering about how my writing would come across to readers to deciding that no one but me would EVER see it, and I would simply write it to get it out of my head and out of my system. It was very freeing when I decided that would be my default position, and I could leave all stories in that imaginary state until I finally got one to a stage where I wouldn't mind people seeing it. Then it might be time to publish....
I also adopted a pseudonym, mainly because a lot of what I wanted to write (i.e. mush, romance, sentimental smut) would be an unending source of embarrassment to me if anyone from my "real life" (especially work colleagues or my students) should ever find out that I was writing it. So, part of my inner critic and the thing that probably interfered with my writing the most was actually me projecting to some future end-point where people were reading it already, and finding it lacking (or ludicrous or just plain dumb, or whatever). Once I stopped imagining what other people would think, I could enjoy the process more and, ultimately, write more.
Yes, totally agree about writing stuff with the mentality that you'll never show it to anyone. That definitely helps as well. I still do that fairly often. Because you DON'T have to show it to anyone. I've got things written that I will probably never share, nothing wrong with that. And I've got stuff I wrote with that intention to keep to myself that I did eventually publish or included in another story in some way.
DeleteAlso, keep it all around. Don't delete stuff. You can keep it deep down in a super secret, password protected folder if you would rather nobody ever find it, but don't get rid of it.
I have to echo Zyra here. I threw out almost all the Star Wars stuff I wrote years ago, mainly because it was handwritten notebooks of stuff, and I wish I'd kept it. Now, if you've got it on computer, keep it!
DeleteAlso, you might be able to reuse it! You might be writing another story and think "wait, I had them at breakfast in that piece I never finished, I can use that!"
Oh and yeah, get a pseudonym! I didn't for X-Files fic and for a few other things that ended up online. Thankfully all that was not explicit and not slash but still, it was fun to explain to a co-worker of mine about the A-Team episode guide I wrote years ago ;-)
DeleteI keep nearly everything I ever write. I have a very organized Google Drive and there's a whole folder specifically labeled 'Abandoned Fics'. It's fun to dig around there after a while, maybe use some old material. I definitely like "recycling" old scenes I've never used.
DeleteAck, now I'm trying to remember how many times I've had Han say "ain't". I think it's...a lot.
ReplyDeleteI was reading the Harry Potter novels aloud to my kids and my youngest complained that the author, celebrated JK Rowling, wrote 'said' all the time. Not the hundreds of substitutes for speaking. I had not really noticed. An eye roll is an eye roll. Sometimes it's got to be just that. It's a great gesture - says a lot.
ReplyDeleteI suppose. But I see the 'said is dead' posts everywhere and I always feel like they need charts like that for other words, too. After a while, 'said', 'sighing', 'eye-rolling'- it all annoys me.
DeleteAh, the "said is dead" argument. :) I've been on both sides of that debate, and I'll tell you, I've settled into the "pro-said" camp for the past year or so. I like the idea that the focus is not on the description of the speaker but on what she is saying. I've recently talked about how Stephen King's On Writing was so transformative for me as an author, and one of the things he really hits home is the argument for "said" as a primary descriptive phrase. He actually praises Rowling for this, too!
ReplyDeleteI like dialogue. I like the characters speaking for themselves. So, while I totally get the whole "said is boring and repetitive" thing, I'm all about using other terms sparingly. I get caught up in "muttered", "replied" and "mumbled" but other than that ... it's "said" and "asked" for me. :)
Oh, and I'm a serial "eye-rolling" offender. I also have to edit "towards" to "toward" quite a bit. And "it's" versus "its". So many rules, so little time to try and catch them all!
Oh, boy. When it comes to "towards" and "toward", I'm completely clueless. Half the time, I just guess, though I do want to get it right.
DeleteI'm kinda' fed up with the local English curriculum; after a while, I just started trying to teach myself. Honestly, I looked up when to use commas, semicolons, and all that jazz. I'm probably a first-degree Comma Overuse offender, too.
KR, I'm "pro-said" as well. Anytime you get into a scene with a lot of dialog, I feel like it can actually get more annoying to read too many different words for speaking just to avoid using said. I read Stephen King's book several years ago and don't remember that specific part, but perhaps that is why I feel this way too!
DeleteI'm good at it's vs. its, but not much else ;)
I'm also pro-said -- unless there is a strong reason to choose a word that describes the emotion behind the "said".
DeleteAnd just to add some more onto this, one of the things I criticize most in my own writing is a lot of what I write is... boring? Not even in terms of plot (well, often that too but that's not what I'm referring to here) more just that I don't have much "style" with my writing. There are a few fanfic authors out there who I'm so impressed by not just in terms of the stories they are telling, but with just HOW they write them. It's a real thing of beauty, and can sometimes make you look at your own writing and be like, man, I really suck.
ReplyDeleteBut, then sometimes you go out and read some real books, again by people who get paid to write, and you realize, you know what? I enjoy this story, the writing is just fine and I get what they're saying. My most recent example of this was re-reading the Jurassic Park books for the first time since the 90s. Michael Crichton has written several books that have been quite well received, and there really isn't anything particularly fancy about the way he writes. It doesn't by any means make him a bad writer, or at least I hope it doesn't, because my main point in mentioning this is that his writing reminds me of my own. So if it's ok for him, or others like him, then it should be ok for me. Because frankly I also think sometimes people can get carried away with trying to be TOO fancy with how they write. It's a rare problem, I don't see it often, but it certainly can happen occasionally.
YES!! YES, YES, YES!! My friend scoundrelsprincess has such a way with words; even her summary is just so beautiful! I always wish I had a way with words like that and whenever I try, I try way too hard.
DeleteOftentimes, that's really true. If the story still makes sense and has an engaging plot, there's no need for fancy words or crazy metaphors.
I can be a "too fancy" offender. There are times I look down at my paragraph-long sentence and realize that while all the usage and grammar is correct, it's also idiotic to expect someone to wade through that many clauses.
DeleteYES! I run into that feeling when I do grammatical gymnastics to not end a sentence with a preposition.
Delete"At what are you looking?" Han asked.
Not attractive. Not in character. Clearly wrong, but grammatically ... :)
It works for Yoda! ;-)
DeleteI have a friend who writes such great emotion into her stories and I ask her on beta reads to hit everywhere she thinks I need more emotion. I tend to carry a lot of my stories through dialogue (I've written paragraph dialogue bits for Han, who is not exactly the wordiest guy around) and she will say "more here, give me an action to go along with this)
OTOH, there are a couple of SkySolo writers who, to me, overwrite so that I'm constantly wondering what the real point of the story is and if I'm missing it. It's a tricky balance.
And you guys who have a hard time getting stories read, unfortunately that never goes away. I've got a current WIP that is an idea I've been excited about writing about for several years, and only more recently decided to finally start getting it out there in spite of the fact that it includes challenges I don't usually take on, mostly that there is actual plot. Well, it's not getting much attention, which really never feels good no matter how long you've been writing. Push said this once a while back in another blog post we had here, I'll have to paraphrase, but basically your level of excitement in posting a certain chapter of your story shall be inversely proportionate to the number of reviews you receive on said chapter. This really never waivers. Super excited about posting a chapter and getting some good reviews? Well, just sit back and await the disappointment at the lack of feedback ;)
ReplyDeleteWhere is it and is it under Zyra?
ReplyDeleteMaybe we should start pimping our stories ::g::
Anywhere I post, I post as Zyra. Or I think technically I'm Zyra M on ff.net, which is where this story is.
DeleteYou can pimp your stories here if you want, I have no issue with that. As long as it isn't too far off topic (talking about writing and posting fanfic seems like fair game) and never in the commentary for someone else's story that is posted here.
I just found your story, Zyra, and loved it. (I reviewed it there.) Can I complain about ff.net a little? Am I the only one who gets frustrated with the huge amount of stories one has to wade through to find something good? I rarely go there because I get so annoyed when trying to narrow the search. I can search and find a page of "Han Leia" stories, but there are like 8000 of them and unless you know an author, you have to wade through a lot of junk and/or unfinished stories. I miss the old days of NHP and sites devoted to Han and Leia. Anyway, all that to say, I had no idea you or anyone else was posting there, so I'm all in favor of people "pimping" their stories. Help us poor readers and save us from endless searching!
ReplyDeleteThank you. And you're not wrong about ff.net. Especially if you're not used to looking there, it can be next to impossible to just find something to read.
DeleteSeveral years ago when I started reading and posting there, there just wasn't a whole lot of material to sift through. I think because a lot of the Han and Leia stories were on Han and Leia sites (such as NHP as you say) so a lot of people weren't using that as their way to get stories out. In like 2009 I think if you searched for M-rated stories on there you'd only get like 4 pages of them. Which is enough that you can take a peek at all of them, or check out reviews or something, and decide what you are going to read. Also updates there were so slow that if you searched for Han and Leia stories, I'd say on average there were probably 2-3 updates a week over there in terms of a new story or chapter. Again, just so much easier to keep up with. You could take a look at every new thing that went up and make a decision.
Kind of the good news/bad news of the resurgence of stories since TFA. Good because hey, look at all the new people writing new stories and stuff! But bad news because it can be very overwhelming and almost make you not want to read anything just because it requires trying to figure out how to choose. And also it makes stories disappear faster, you're a lot less likely to find a gem that was posted like, 8 months ago, because it's already on page 15 or whatever. And who get that far down in results?
So, I have no solution, but I can understand the frustration.
Word of mouth helps to find stories. If a fellow Han an Leia enthusiast, especially someone dedicated enough to frequent blogs like this, recommends a story, it says a lot and is worth checking out, imo. I randomly googled Cindy Olsen the other day, found a post on NHP with a link to ff.net and there were all her beautiful stories, but under a new name. I would never have found them otherwise. So yay for chatting and passing on info.
DeleteSo true about ff.net. I have a link to a list filtered just to Han and Leia and even then it's a lot to go through now. Word of mouth is great. I also tend to look through favorite stories and authors of people I know. I've posted over there before and getting back into it again. So hey, shameless plug but have a look. :) Check out jzhanfan and zolo77. And couple of good stories - Han Solo and the Princess by LASOS. Really romantic. And The Not Quite Love Letters. Be prepared for some spit takes if you read that one.
DeleteOh, if we're talking story recommendations ...
DeleteJourney of a Thousand Miles by greyathena (AO3 only): ANH through ESB. I can't even rec this fast enough.
Domestic Bliss by Erin Darroch and Justine Graham (FFN and AO3). post-ROTJ Disney canon AU. Sweetness, love and perfection.
New Hope, Indiana by Cicatrick (FFN). Earthbound AU. I know we've rec'ed this pretty hard, but it bears repeating. Over and over again. It's actual genius work.
And other authors to check out: Organanation, OtterandTerrier, and Corellian-Smuggler (all on FFN)
Awesome, you guys! Thanks! I've read a couple of those but will search out the others.
DeleteSo I downloaded the ff net app, and it's actually pretty good. I favorited a bunch of you and some other familiar names, here's hoping to cut down on search time.
I kept the same name on ff.net if anyone is looking.
DeleteFF.net defeats me with its search and I'm not fond of how it displays on a page, to be petty. AO3 seems to have better search - I have the pairings I follow so I check those daily. It also has a nicer look in the browser.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with AO3 is that people misunderstand what / and & mean which can be odd for someone who reads slash. I'll still read check out the story and some are quite good but...
Much of the Han/Leia stuff contains no Han/Leia. The dead giveaway is a certain villain and heroine pairing is the main relationship (or villain/villain) and you know that Han/Leia is sometimes not even mentioned. It's a spam tag to get more eyeballs. Or if it is Han/Leia, you'll want to run away because the relationship between them will be horrifically OOC or toxic or some combination thereof. At best, it'll be Leia remembering Han and sometimes, not well.
(I also write/read SkySolo and that tag is worse for OOC. A lot of the new writers come from writing anime and if the characters weren't named Han and Luke, you'd never know it was them... If anyone wants to try SkySolo (or any of the other lesser known OT pairings, I can recommend some good stuff.))
As I see the H/L people are on FF net, I'm going to have to learn to slice and dice over there better....
This is also interesting to me, because I know we all have our "usual" spots and we tend to stick with what we know and are used to. I've heard AO3 mentioned often, and man, I can't stand that site in terms of trying to search for stuff. I get that ff.net has a lot to wade through, but AO3 allows so many tags, it's like every single story is labeled for basically every single character or situation so every story ever written pops up no matter what you search for, because everyone just tags their stuff for everything. No way am I taking any time to sift through dozens of stories that don't even focus on what I want on the off chance I find one that does.
DeleteI like that ff.net limits how many characters you can tag, so you have to choose. It actually used to be only two I think and now we get 4. That seems like more than enough to figure out who your story focuses on and you can get the readers who are truly going to be interested.
"Children of the Future" was pretty awesome. Great story!
ReplyDeleteThere are so many older stories that are still amazing today. I was reading something by Push, a like 99 chapter AU or something that was left unfinished, and it was just so engrossing, and I think it's been years since it was published.
But for WIP right now, I am obsessed with:
- "New Hope Indiana" by Cicatrick at FFDN. (As we all are!) TOO MUCH goodness. I literally die with happiness every time there is an update and it is the most amazing H&L fic, made even more impressive in that it is 100% H&L, yet AU and earthbound.
- "Nobody But Yourself" by Knitzkampf at FFDN Another one of these PERFECT stories that just amazes me with how insightful and spot on this writer's understanding of the OT3 are. It's a retelling of the OT from Luke's perspective and the characterizations are brilliant. Seriously genius blend of writing style and subject. I LOVE THIS STORY.
- "Mighty Things" by KnightedRogue at FFDN. Yeah! Space battles! Inventive and original plot! All the sexy H&L! This is written like a SW novel but with our OTP right front and center. Deep, solid understanding of H&L and stays true to their character, even though it's AU and takes H&L into a totally (awesome) unexpected direction that feels more fitting than what they're giving us in canon.
I have to say, one of my largest pet peeves in reading H&L fanfic (and one that none of the above mentioned story ever do) is to have Han (or even Leia) go off on expository monologues that spell out their feelings or thoughts. Ugh. That loses me as a reader. Han does not do expository dialogue. Han is not an eloquent long-winded man. He might think deep thoughts and experience complex emotions, but every time a fic writer has him talking himself out it drives me nuts. The best Han I see in fanfic relies on action and economy. It's part of what makes him so appealing. Bless all the fanfic writers who get it right! (Or okay, just see things my way. LOL.)
I have marked Mighty Things to read later (::g::) Love New Hope.
DeleteThank you so much for "Nobody but Yourself" - I'm enjoying the hell out of it - need to go add some feedback!
In case you want to read further afield, I'm culturevulture73 on https://archiveofourown.org/ I will warn that the writing posted is SkySolo and OT3 but I think my TFA fix it, "Fix You," and my "rescue Han" "Not So Great Escape" are pretty much readable no matter what - lots of Han/Leia convos in Fix You (I'm a fade to black writer anyway or a never get to that point, more accurately ;-) ). I'm under the same name on FF but I only have some Law & Order there and the infamous Dancing with the Stars/SW fusion that roane and I wrote last summer...
ReplyDeleteI'm so excited to see names and recs! I need some good fic desperately!