This post was originally appeared HERE on June 8, 2011 and was written by Push
2017 Author's note from Zyra: Another one from the archives, and one that had been on my mind. Reviews. They keep the fandom alive, and yet at times they can be incredibly hard to come by. I know I've got a current work in progress and it has either completely lost the interest of any readers or people just have nothing to say, but I haven't gotten this few reviews on my stories since I first started, I don't think. And for a story that was already proving a challenge to write, it kind of sucks the potential creativity out of you. Reviews mean more than you think.
When I first started writing fanfiction just over a year ago, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. But only days into publishing my first story did I get my initiation into the addictiveness of those little, tiny e-mail notifications that let you know that someone has left you a review.
Now, I'll be honest, my first story got very little reviews and those e-mails were few and far between, but they were like gold when I did get them. A few months into my journey, I started conversing with Zyra. Of course, we discussed reviews (or the lack of them). In fact, my very first correspondence with Zyra was to thank her for her nice reviews and apologize to her for not leaving her any (she still likes to rub that in occasionally).
Yes, I had been a horrible lurker for at least five or six months, reading and enjoying but never reviewing. Zyra's stories having been some of the ones I had read and loved. I had 'favorited' her stories, which I reasoned was just the same, but no. No it isn't. It wasn't until I began publishing that I realized the importance of a review.
I can still remember my hesitation over reviewing when I was just lurking back then. I looked at all the writers out there as people who were secure enough to publish a story so they obviously had to know that it was good without some unknown reader out there letting them know that, right? Well, that may be true for some but I really don't think I'm in the minority when I say as a writer those reviews are just a very treasured commodity. I guess the little traffic counters of fanfiction.net could be maybe just the equivalent of nicotine or alcohol. They are nice and slightly addictive, but just don't have the same effect as a written review. (Please don't think I'm a crack head - I'm really not - it's just a metaphor. Not that there's anything wrong with being a crack head. But I digress.)
As writers, I think we of all people should appreciate the importance of a review. I know since I joined your ranks, I've made it a must-do when I read a story that I like. So what if I don't like it? I thought of that just as I was typing it. I won't say that if I don't review it means I don't like it, because there is a lot out there that I just have not had the time to read and review. Especially all the stories I read back as a lurker and should still probably go back and review. But I will say that if I don't have anything good to say, I usually just refrain. Is that right? I think it is.
There was a profile page of a writer that I can't remember who it was now, but she basically said that if you want to provide constructive criticism on her story because you liked it but had found some small flaws or had suggestions to make it better than that was fine. But if you read it and you didn't like her story line, didn't agree with her characterizations and basically disagreed with the premise of her story, then just walk away and let it be. She asked not to give a review that would basically cause her to rewrite her story to please you. If you wanted to see a different story line, then go and write your own story.
I remember when I first read this person's profile page, I was a little taken aback. But, you know what? I actually agree with her and that's what I do with my reviews, and I'm fine if people do the same with my stories.
Hey Everyone, I've been sucked in by real life, and haven't really had the time to contribute meaningfully to any the recent discussions. I still need to leave reviews for all the amazing Valentine's Day stories here as well as a bunch of stories that have posted on FFDN. I'm still reading, just not able to write meaningful reviews, which often require me to have some time to really think about the story. I've managed a few here and there, but it's been really uneven and usually the result have having just the right amount of time and opportunity, but I'd love to spend more time reviewing and a few stories have been just fantastic that I haven't had the chance to contribute my most recent thoughts on. (Knighted Rogue for example... some amazing stories published in the last while that I didn't comment on... and the latest installment of Mighty Things... SO GOOD. And Knitzkampf's retelling of the OT from Luke's perspective. OH I SWEAR all of you people should be reading that one. It's TOO GOOD. The perfect story, and the ideal fit for their writing style. Don't take my word for it. GO READ IT. Now! And Zyra, great update, but again... things are falling by the wayside due to non-recreational activity taking up most of my time. Plus, now that I actually have a FFDN account I can only review once, rather than submit multiple guest reviews, so I've stopped dropping in short comments, and coming back with longer ones.)
ReplyDeleteAnyway... I love reviewing stories! But, I have a hard time as a reader with a writer who *only* wants good reviews, but essentially *begs* their readers to give them feedback. Look I get that people do this for fun and with no compensation. But, there are some writers who really don't want "real" feedback about their work, but keep asking for reviews. It's fine. I often don't write reviews when I have issues with a story. But sometimes it's annoying to have a writer repeatedly beg for feedback, but you know they don't *really* want to hear what you might have to say.
That said, lately I haven't reviewed because I just don't have time! One of these days I'll get the space from a series of deadlines to go back through recent stories and give them their proper attention!
I would also love to comment honestly on a couple writers, but I won't. Not at least until I think they'd appreciate what I had to say, even if it wasn't all just glowing praise.
Oh yeah, life definitely sometimes gets in the way. It used to be a lot easier to catch up if you went away for a little while, that's for sure.
DeleteJust a note about your account, you know you can comment once PER CHAPTER right? Not just once per story once you're signed in.
Real criticism and feedback is definitely touchy, we discussed that some in the prior post and I've got another archive one I think I'll post next which gets into that subject specifically. I do agree that if you don't know the person it can be hard to leave "real" feedback. But then you don't want to post blind praise either.
That's why this is such a tough subject to get into, because there are a lot of things to consider. But it's good to have a conversation about it.
Oh yeah, I know you can only comment once per chapter, but when I used to comment as a guest, sometimes I would jot down a few impressions or just an enthusiastic one or two lines about enjoying the chapter and then return for lengthier reviews. Since I can only comment once on chapters now that I have an account I don't do that anymore.
DeleteThe thing is I can't just leave positive reviews and politely leave out the negative if there was something that really bothered me. So rather than do that I just won't comment at all.
Oh, gosh, LoveThis, thank you for the lovely shout-out! I try really hard to assume that when reviewers don't review anymore, it's because of real-life things. :) I know that sounds like such an easy thing to do - not be a selfish jerk and remember that other people's lives don't revolve around your fanfiction - but it's definitely a struggle sometimes. For the record, I really did honestly assume life had gotten in the way for you! No worries, my friend! :D
DeleteFor the record, I've noticed as I've gotten older and been in this fandom longer that it HAS gotten easier to understand that the quality of reviews you receive VASTLY outweighs the quantity. Not to discourage anyone from leaving short reviews (please do!), but I think it's gotten easier to accept that your one-shot is not going to get 400 reviews. And conversely, I've also learned that one-shots sometimes get more attention than longer stories and you're left going ... what? I spent MONTHS on this). And sometimes a story has everything you think the audience could want and it gets nuthin'. And your quickie ficlet you wrote at 4am that one time has the most reviews on your profile. Reviews don't make sense, and I think it gets easier to just accept the wonderful feedback you get and let the rest just roll off your back. It's so tough. The key is to remember that the number of reviews a story gets IN NO WAY defines the quality of the fic. And then we writers need to build up other authors, because we know what the struggle is like. :)
KR, you're right that quality reviews are awesome. And for sure it is really hard to accept, but also true, that lots of reviews do not always equate to a great story, and very few reviews definitely don't also mean that a story isn't amazing. Even though both of those things are hard to accept. A while back, when there were a lot fewer stories up on ff.net and it was much easier to go back and find old stories to read, I found an author whose stories I really enjoyed who had posted stories a few years before and a lot of them had VERY few reviews. Like, shockingly few. And in my reviews I was sure to point out that I couldn't believe I was only like the 5th person to review it or whatever, because it was just so good. So, those stories, sadly, do exist.
DeleteI will say though that one problem with very few reviews, especially for a multi-chapter story, is that you start to wonder if people are reading at all, or are interested in what might happen next, or if you've lost people for some reason because they aren't interested anymore or whatever.
I don't think I've ever been surprised the reverse way, that a quick, silly story I wrote got way more reviews than I thought it would.
Now, that makes me sad. I posted a one-shot that I didn't think was anything amazing, but I got about ten reviews the same day and I found it a cause worth celebrating!
DeleteOf course, as we are discussing, not that the number of reviews means anything about the story, but . . .
DeleteLoveTh1s, is it weird to say that as a READER, I love reading your reviews? You always have something intelligent to say about the fics that I enjoy, and I like reading it, lol.
Delete(Sorry, big error in that post and had to delete and re-post)
ReplyDeleteHere's a thought - jediofgrace commented on the last post how it was really quite hard to find the thing you want to read on ff.net.
All of us here should make sure we know what everybody else's ff.net names are (or, if we post on the other site...what is it AO or something?).
Then we can go and "favorite" each other, although ff is kind of a pain in that if you misspell, you don't get a "similar name" list. Anyway, if you go to favorites, and search by pen name, and spell it correctly, you can favorite authors.
Is there a way to "follow" authors without hitting the little heart button on a story? I'm not sure there is, but if there is, maybe someone should post it here.
Given my rep, I may lose followers over there :), but I'm
Kelleher
on ff.net
That sounds like a good idea. You can follow an author, not just a story. I forget how you do it. I actually think if you just favorite someone you won't get the email alert updates when they post something, you have to follow them.
DeleteWhich brings me to a totally random thing, but I always find it amusing when I get an alert that someone new has "followed" a story I wrote and posted years ago that was clearly a one-shot and finished :)
Sometimes I do that just to put a "pin" next to an author - so I know that I want to remind myself of that author.
DeleteI think the only way to follow an author through the site is to hit the heart next to a story chapter, and then you get the option to follow the story or the author. I'm not sure if it's the same on the app.
You can do it on their profile page. Up top next to favorite is a button for follow.
DeleteI also only realized like...uh...today, that ff.net has an app for my phone and portable reader, so I'll be downloading that. I don't know if I'm the only person who was totally clueless on that, but now that I know, I'll download it.
ReplyDeleteI did not know that.
DeleteI KNOW! Shocked me! And it's one of the reasons that I read and review less fan fic than I otherwise would, because I thought I had to be in front of my computer!
DeleteThis app helps me leave specific reviews because (at least for now), unlike on the computer, you can actually copy from the fic to quote the parts you like. The sucky thing is it has no PM feature. :(
DeleteBelow the comment box you can check if you want to follow story and/or author I believe, on ff.net.
ReplyDelete(And thank you, LoveThis, for the plug.) You're a great reviewer- wishing you time for reading and writing.
I used to lurk but now I realize how much time I spend reading fanfics, and authors should know how grateful I am for all the pleasure they've given me. But if I didn't like a story, for whatever reason, I'll be a notch on their statistics, but I'll stay quiet. It's a personal thing; not an issue for review.
I agree that there really isn't much reason to review something and tell someone, hey, I didn't like your story. Because it helps nobody, and really there are people out there who are interested in reading about all sorts of different things. So even if a story isn't something I'm interested in, often there are a lot of reviews telling me there are plenty of people who ARE interested in that, and that's cool. So no reason to just be like, no thanks.
DeleteI should also mention that I think most of us also realize that there is not a single person here who posts who has the time or desire to read ALL the stories over there and keep up, or read all the stories from everyone who posts her. It would be awesome if we could, but it's just not possible, really.
ReplyDeleteBecause of course I also feel a little hypocritical because there are people posting here whose stories I haven't had a chance to read. But hopefully we all realize that we all just want to do our part and do the best we can with reviewing and reading and stuff.
For the longest time, I didn't comment either. I mean, I left the occasional comment. I didn't really understand the importance of it; I had a satisfying enough following and reviews on one of my first stories last year. I fell off the radar for a couple months and when I returned to the sequel, I lost a lot of regular reviewers and it kind of hit me. Since we had that discussion a while ago about how hard it is to get people to review, I've put myself on a frenzy and I will yell at myself if I don't review what I read.
ReplyDeleteI confess to loving feedback and being horrible about leaving it. I'm pretty much only on AO3 (the only FF.net stuff I have is Law & Order - oh and the big Dancing with the Stars story collab) but I will hit the kudos button so fast...and it makes my day to see kudos arrive...
ReplyDeleteI am less good about writing reviews (and I should bookmark more! there's no way to go back and see what you "kudo'd")
Also love your story on ff right now Zyra
ReplyDeleteAw, thank you!
DeleteReal life has hit me pretty hard lately. Since November 2016, I've been in house-selling and house-buying hell. Then I actually moved five days ago (egads! only five days!??) and now I'm in IKEA hell....and sooooo tired. And yet, still, my boss expects me to keep turning up for work!? So unfair!
ReplyDeleteAll that is to say I am sorry to those of you who post here who have stories on the go that I haven't read yet or updates I haven't reviewed. I agree that reviews are hugely important. Even a one- or two-word comment is better than silence; at least, it is for me. The reader who goes by the name of Banzi always seems to leave reviews for me and, although they tend to be very short ("This is good" or "I like it"), I still greatly appreciate the contact.
I try to review everything I read to completion. If I read something that I really don't like or that loses me halfway through, I might not review at all. I just tiptoe away and leave it at that. I'm assuming that the low number of reviews on some of my stories comes down to that; I've lost readers through blunders of characterisation (I'm probably guilty of giving both Han and Leia rather too much exposition-of-thoughts-and-feelings time in my stories) or through rejection of canon or for any number of other reasons.
While I don't think I would want anyone to shred my stories and tell me how awful they are, I do sometimes wish I could get a little constructive criticism, especially if there are problematic elements of my writing that I repeat across multiple stories.... I know it's a little awkward to do that in a public forum or on a public reviews page, but there's always the option for a private message (on FFNet)? Of course, then it's not anonymous and THAT is probably awkward, too. Goodness knows, I'm highly unlikely ever to offer criticism of anyone else's story unless they specifically invite me to do so, so I can't really expect anyone else to do it.
Could we ask for constructive criticism? Or does that turn reviewers away from saying anything? A fear of mine is posting a story, then coming back to reread it sometime later and see a glaring, dumb mistake sitting there for the world to see. It's like the spinach in my teeth that everyone was too polite to point out.
ReplyDeleteI don't see why not. And if someone said something like, "Hey, if you see something you think needs to be fixed, please feel free to tell me!" I don't think other people might be turned away from saying anything. I get that too, here and there I'll go back to an old story and find some really stupid mistake I can't believe I didn't catch myself, and then I'm annoyed nobody mentioned it.
DeleteI don't mind constructive criticism...but it's less bruising to the ego when it's a DM. So that's maybe the best way to ask for it (and to deliver it).
DeleteOh man. ESB is on TNT right now. Woo-hoo!!
ReplyDeleteJedi's after!
DeleteI think it's hysterical that I saw people online dissing TNT et al buying the rights to the SW saga as it stands now (and it will eventually add the ST) because it had been on so many times. Yet when they first aired the both trilogies back in the fall, every night's installment was the #1 or #2 cable show of the night and #1 was college football. I think that Sunday when it was Jedi vs Walking Dead, Jedi was right behind Walking Dead.
Ooh! I'm on it! Why does the tv guide have to be so long!!
DeleteThey started showing it so much I tend to check. I do miss the Spike commercials though.
DeleteAnyone else want to watch Han's butt in slo-mo for a while? Oh man I love the asteroid scene.
YES. That scene in the Falcon with Han bending and twisting around pipes is so gratuitous! But hot damn. Harrison Ford was so hot back then!
Delete(if I missed a comment chain about this, sorry!)
ReplyDeletethe other side of the crack coin is: I am more likely to post a note to an author that acknowledges reviews than I am to authors who never do.
Ditto, Kathy.
DeleteReviews (and the acknowledgement of them) often lead to regular correspondence between me and writers whose work I enjoy, and readers who enjoy my stories, and that interaction is actually more enjoyable for me than the writing itself.
I don't understand why some writers will plead for reviews or feedback of any kind, and then not acknowledge any of it, once received. It's puzzling and I'm curious to know the thought processes behind it (perhaps they just don't want to start a lengthy exchange with people they don't know?) But it's not something I could ever ask the culprit to explain, as I suspect it would just sound... whiny.
No, we hadn't brought that up yet but I totally agree. If I'm leaving reviews and the person doesn't say anything back to me, not even just a very short "Thanks!" then I'm probably not going to be leaving a lot of reviews.
DeleteI can sort of understand not wanting to start a long exchange, but if someone replies back to me and just says, "Thank you!" I'm perfectly happy to be acknowledged, and it doesn't really open things up for an exchange, which is fine.
I'm with you though that I enjoy it when it becomes a little back and forth exchange and I find that enjoyable as well.
Me before I had accounts that let writers reply to my reviews: Why would I expect or want that?
DeleteMe after: Oooooh maybe they'll say something back ^^
Me when I leave a very detailed comment: DID THEY READ IT YET I HOPED THEY LIKED IT !!!!!!
Me with fic writers who I regularly correspond with, who produce a lot of fics, and who always acknowledge my reviews: You good, I know you read it, you can just hit me up if you have a comment on what I said :) (but if they stopped acknowledging reviews completely I'd probably feel bad)
Me with writers I ALWAYS or VERY FREQUENTLY review who have never said *a word* to me about my reviews even though I see them begging for reviews and sometimes complaining that they don't get enough: O_O :/ O_o
I like exchanges too, but I don't "expect" that from authors (I always assume I'm bugging them as a reader, as a writer I'm like YES TALK TO ME MORE lol ^^).