I'd offer up my thoughts on the subject but I'd like to see some other opinions first. Plus, I already wrote my version anyway so you probably already know how I feel.
Wednesday, May 2, 2012
More Fun Topics: When Did they Do It?
I'd offer up my thoughts on the subject but I'd like to see some other opinions first. Plus, I already wrote my version anyway so you probably already know how I feel.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
YAY! I love love love this topic. I mean, this is practically all I ever write about in my fanfiction, so I think all of your suggestions are appropriate and definitley plausible, but I personally think they did it right after Endor. I mean, come on...I just don't think they could hold it back any longer!
ReplyDeleteOh, love this topic! And could that pic at the top be any hotter? (Wiping drool away…)
ReplyDeleteI don’t know if I have a definitive stance on this, but definitely have a lot of theories. I’d love to know how long that trip to Bespin took. Mostly because I’m not sure that if they were in small quarters for an extensive period that they would be able to resist. But I lean towards that they didn’t at that point. They are closer to be sure on Bespin, but I don’t see that level of closeness. I’m also not sure that Han would be so confused in ROTJ if they had slept together, especially repeatedly. And this is Leia we’re talking about. She was extremely closed off and I think she’d need time to open up emotionally. At most, I could see her give in once or twice just before Bespin, like a don’t want to miss out on the opportunity kind of thing.
I would have loved if they did it at Sullust. Two of the stories I’ve really liked were set during that time. But with Han recovering and so confused in Jedi, I doubt they did. But we don’t know how long they were at the fleet. I would put it some time after ROTJ. By the end of the movie, they look like they are in it for the long haul with each other and I would see it would progress out of that. When I first thought about this topic a while back, that’s how I saw it – a natural progression out of an adult relationship, like they were already together and it happened from there.
But you might be able to convince me otherwise… =)
I don't know. I was brought up as a very strong Roman Catholic, so I of course lean to the whole after marriage thing, but speaking from a character perspective I would think that after Endor. From a fanfiction perspective, though...
ReplyDeleteOk I've been following here for a while... but idiot that I am just figured out how to get to the point where I could comment...
ReplyDeleteSo I may be in a whole other place here but I have a theory that they did it between ANH and ESB... and the fall out from that was the fighting that we all love in ESB. Maybe it was a heat of the moment thing at Ord Mantel (or some other mission). Leia regrets it and starts emotionally distancing herself... Han is confused and fights back verbally.
But I can run the situation the other way too...
I think they did it on the trip to Bespin - I go by Leela Starsky's famous "Forty Days to Bespin" story. Forty days is an awfully long time to be alone on a ship with the man you either hate more than anyone else or love to death... don't you think? :P
ReplyDeleteAlso, I don't think Leia would have confessed her love for him at Bespin if they hadn't done it on the trip there. Also, did anyone else notice the change in her clothing colours? I did a nice long post about that on the Jedi Council Forums - I can bring it over here if you'd like.
Yup, I've heard all the change in colour theories. She goes from virginial white, to passionate red, and then back to white to symbolise her lover is gone.
DeleteBut then in ROTJ she starts with virtually no clothes at all, so don't know what that represents. But it's interesting that ROTJ is the only film that she DOESN'T wear white in at all.
I love these theories, but it's probably doubtful that they actual mean anything.
That pic is so hot, and I'm excited because I've never seen it in colour before, my version is black and white. Woo hoo!! Love it.
ReplyDeleteI'm firmly rooted in the Truce at Bakura camp. I have always believed that something very significant occurred between them in that book, and in my opinion the hints are not even that subtle.
But if we ignore the EU, then I think it happened straight after Endor, probably the night of the celebration. But there was no Ewok hut involved. No. They would do it on the Falcon in Han's cabin. That's just the ideal place for it to happen really.
Never believed they did it at any point during the films, but I agree with Amara, we really do need an official word on exactly how long that flight to Bespin took. If its a week or two, or possibly three, then I don't think it happened. If it was a month or longer, then maybe, just maybe. I'm still not totally convinced, but I do love those Flight to Bespin fics.
I know some people say that because they are more at ease with each other once they reach Cloud City it's evidence that they've done the deed. Yes, they are more at ease (forehead kiss, anyone?) but I don't interpret it to indicate they necessarily had sex. I think they've just become more comfortable with each other and have found a new level of understanding. No more fighting, the gloves are off, we like each other now. You know?
I don't think it happened after Han's rescue simply because he probably wasn't "up" to it, you know what I'm saying. Hibernation sickness causes temporary muscle weakness and that kind of thing, so I don't think he would be firing on all cylinders so soon after. He needs to recover a bit.
YmaSolo - Hi, nice to here a different view of things. It's an interesting theory, and I could believe it, apart from the fact that I just can't get past the Falcon kiss being their FIRST kiss. Everything about it says first kiss. So I don't see anything that happened prior to ESB even progressing as far as kissing. What's really interesting though, and I don't know how many of you have read it, is Leigh Brackett's first draft of the ESB script. There is a very different Han and Leia presented here, and it seems to indicate that something HAS happened between them before the events of the movie, possibly even sexual.
Love this topic!!!
I agree with you Claire, In my mind, I believed it happened during the Truce at Bakura. It all makes sense to me. I don't think i have ever seen this picture before. Welcome YmaSolo.
DeleteI still doubt they did it on the way to Bespin mostly because we don't know how long it took. At least, I've not heard anything official. If it was a long trip, then i might agree. But I don't see her shifting from irritation and anger to lover that quickly. Just my opinion.
ReplyDeleteYmaSolo, That's a very interesting theory and might explain why Leia is so mad at Han at the beginning of ESB. I've often wondered what happened between ANH and ESB because the attraction (and irritation) between them had to start and grow at some point. I'm sure it started the day they met, but how did it grow from there.
Gah, I wish you could go back and edit posts on here. Just realised what I wrote should read that I can't get past the Falcon kiss NOT being their first kiss. But I'm sure you knew what I meant.
ReplyDeleteAll right, my feelings are that it was after Endor, as you would know if you read my story that shows that. I have read some interesting stories that are believable from the ANH-ESB timeline, but like others have said, everything about that Falcon kiss to me screams first kiss, so I just don't see it. And as for the trip to Bespin, I don't think it took that long so I don't think they did it then. If it DID take 40 days, I'm not sure they would've held out. That is a LONG time to be cooped up on a ship alone! But I choose to think that it didn't take that long and they didn't do it.
ReplyDeleteNow, as for their change in demeanor between each other, if you watch the movie, the change is immediate, right after the kiss. Not just when they get to Bespin. I mean, just the little exchange when they decide to go to Bespin is the first civil conversation they really have. She comfortably kisses him on the cheek, he jokes with her about liking scoundrels and she just kind of laughs. They haven't even gone anywhere yet so definitely haven't had time to jump into bed. However they were acting at Bespin had already begun right after the kiss, really. I don't necessarily buy the white being symbolic of that, either. I'm not sure they put that much thought into it.
Now, after they rescued him there didn't seem to be much time and as was already stated, who knows what kinds of things hibernation sickness does to a person! Not to mention Han being all confused about Leia and Luke. I don't see him being so mixed up about everything if he and Leia had slept together. I think he'd know that if she was going to sleep with him, it was because he meant a lot to her and didn't make that kind of decision lightly.
So, after Endor makes the most sense. In my story it happens that night although honestly I've got to wonder if they would've been just too damn exhausted! Seriously, talk about a battle! But as soon as they were rested enough... well, come on, they'd definitely go at it.
Yes, there is a change in the way they react to each other after the kiss. Although, having said that, they are still a bit snappy with each other when they escape the space slug ( "I am not a committee" and the way he says "Sit down, sweetheart, we're taking off") but after that, the change is very noticeable.
ReplyDeleteAs I think I mentioned in another post a while back, according to the SW Essential Atlas, which has star maps of the entire galaxy, Hoth and Bespin are VERY close together. I was quite shocked when I saw that actually. I had never considered that they were anywhere near each other before. So, if we take that as truth, then I wouldn't have thought it took that long, even with no hyperdrive. But again, I don't recall anybody ever officially stating how long it took. But it certainly doesn't look like it took very long.
After 40days though, they probably WOULD have done it. But in "Forty Days to Bespin" they do it on around day 12, or something like that. Great story, as I'm sure you agree, but that's just way too quick for my liking.
Yeah, they probably were pretty tired after the Ewok Celebration, but I kind of like the thought of them slipping away and creeping back to the Falcon when no one was looking. Everybody would be too busy gawping at Lando's dancing (I use the term loosely) to even notice they were gone!
I'm in the Endor victory celebration camp. What's better than victory sex? It seems fitting. They probably were tired and a bit drunk, or a lot drunk, but I don't think that kept them from committing to one another at that point, informally.
DeleteLove that idea of them slipping off to the Falcon together. So cute!
ReplyDeleteThe Atlas does mention on the page for ESB that the trip took weeks using the back up hyperdrive. Not sure how much I believe that since the planets are that close. And they were looking for somewhere nearby. Doubt that means weeks. And if they had a back up hyperdrive, it may not have been that long. Now if talking about sublight, yeah, they were together a while I'm sure.
You're right, Amara, the Essential Atlas does say that, hadn't spotted that before. So if there was a back-up hyperdrive that would surely narrow the time down a bit, although it still claims it took weeks. This contradicts the novel Millennium Falcon, which mentions Han and Leia's "private time in sub-light" on the "slow" flight to Bespin. So that sounds like sub-light engines only.
DeleteHmmm, confusing this is!!
That it is! I would think even a back up hyperdrive wouldn't be that slow that it would take weeks. But you'd think Luke's training would be pretty long. Don't suppose someone knows Lucas so we can ask? :)
DeleteI doubt that Lucas even gave it a second thought. It's just us geeks that bother with this stuff!
DeleteAnyway, some more info from the Millennium Falcon Workshop Manual - according to this there really is a back-up hyperdrive, but it doesn't sound awfully impressive I have to say. It apparently enables the Falcon to "limp" to the nearest starport. So it probably isn't that fast. However, if the hyperdrive motivator is broken, it renders both hyperdrives inoperable. So as Threepio points out "The hyperdrive motivator has been damaged, it's impossible to go to light speed". So it would appear that sub-light engines took them to Bespin.
I guess I really do tend to lean towards Endor for most of Zyra's reasons above, but I still flip flop between that and Bespin. I don't see them having time at Sullust.
ReplyDeleteAs for the white to red thing, you never know. There's a good amount of color symbolism in Star Wars. Or maybe they just didn't want a character dressed in white on a bright white background!
Between ANH and ESB is an interesting and fun theory, but they were acting pretty childish at the beginning for that to have been the basis for their arguing. It's kinda funny, I was watching ESB a couple weeks ago with my friend, and she actually brought that up. Of course I had to bite my tongue before I spouted out any of my real theories! My explanation was that they probably did and he didn't call her. :P
Haha Claire, I've always liked the idea of them ditching the lame ewok party for a real good time. ;)
I'm just torn. Their behavior in ROTJ definitely suggested they had not slept together. But the timeline of ESB suggests a long trip: A) Even taking the crash course, Luke's Jedi training had to be at least a few weeks long. B) I don't know much about physics, but I feel like even planets that are close together would take a really long time to travel between if you had to hobble along. It would take months to get to Mars, for example, and that's practically down the block from us, cosmically speaking.
ReplyDeleteUltimately, narratively, I really have to go with sometime (soon) after credits roll in ROTJ. But I sure like the *idea* of the bespin trip scenario. Cooped up on the ship together for weeks? Le Sigh.
Can I be the first to say....May The Fourth Be With You........:)
ReplyDeleteand also with you:)
DeleteAnd with you. :)
Deletewas re-reading Millennium Falcon this weekend and noticed at one point it's mentioned that the trip between two planets in the same system took three days without using the hyperdrive.
ReplyDeletethen there is the comment mentioned earlier about the "private time in sublight" sealing the deal for Han.
I don't think Han's confusion in ROTJ fits with them doing it in ESB though. as you know if you've read my story "Finding Time" I subscribe to the theory of Bakura being the first real window of opportunity after Endor.
Ooo, that's interesting bit from the book. Thanks for sharing.
ReplyDeleteAs a Bakura fan, Finding Time was pretty much perfect for me. Anyone who hasn't read it, get on over to ff.net and check it out.
ReplyDeleteThat "private time in sub light" bit certainly caught my attention when I read Millennium Falcon. It's the word "private" that's interesting. Why not just say "the time they spent together in sublight" ? Interesting when you compare it to the private time described by Kevin J Anderson in Jedi Search, when Doole is probing Han's mind with the glitterstim and Han is worried he will see the "private moments" with Leia, which I interpret to be a reference to sex.
Food for thought, indeed.
I don't know. It might be a reference to just time alone. But that's just me. I have a hard time seeing them doing on the way to Bespin. But I could see them having quiet moments alone on the way and realizing how much they do love each other.
DeleteI'm not all that familiar with the EU, but SOMETIME after the final battle in ROTJ is always what I've thought. Maybe on Endor after their victory, maybe a little later than that, but not on the way to Bespin, not on Bespin, not on Endor before the final battle... is what I've always thought, without thinking about it too much.
ReplyDeleteEspecially assuming that Leia was raised in at least a somewhat traditional environment and that her first time with Han was her first time period, I just don't think their relationship was at that point until sometime around "He's my brother." :)
After re-reading 40 Days to Bespin for the first time in years, as I now have a replacement copy (thank you amara!), I still can't believe they did all THAT. As much as I love that story, it still doesn't ring true to me. I want to be convinced that they were at it like bunnies all the way to Cloud City, but I'm still far from being converted.
ReplyDeleteI love the idea of it. But it didn't happen. :(
Agreed. I like the story, but I'm thinking Leia would not be that adventurous right off the bat.
DeleteActually, something just occurred to me.
DeleteConsider this. What if the alternate kiss deleted scene on the bluray had not been cut? I don't know about you, but if they kissed like THAT in the movie then I wouldn't have any trouble at all in imagining them bumping uglies all the way to Bespin. That is, without question, the hottest kiss in SW, and it's initiated by LEIA, and she clearly wants him bad!
That could have put a totally different spin on things I think. Anyone else agree?
Yes, I'm still here, just really busy!
DeleteI'm going to have to agree that if they had used that kiss, well, that changes a lot. There is no confusion after, and she is definitely WAY into it! And that is actually why I am glad they took it out. I'm SUPER glad that we get to see it anyway, but I prefer how it was in the movie as it doesn't make it obvious that as soon as they get a second alone, those clothes are coming off!
I'm still waiting for the follow up where the clothes come off right then and there. :)
DeleteAgreed. There is no doubt with that second kiss. I'd be surprised they'd last two seconds after a kiss like that. But I like the way it is on the movie. Very sweet.
Yup, it would have happened right there and then, and Threepio would probably have short circuited.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I love the way it is in the movie too, don't think I want to change it. But there's that evil part of my brain that just loves the thought of that scene going back in, even though I know it really shouldn't be there.
Lol, that may be reason enough!
DeleteIf the second kiss had stayed in, I'd probably be more likely to believe that those weren't their first kisses, that they'd had more of a relationship between the movies.
Personally, I think that it happened either on the way to Bespin or after Endor.
ReplyDeleteOk, so the Bespin one might be more-so because I'm writing a fanfic for that time period at the moment and it kind of fits into the story, but I'm pretty sure at this point I'm going to hold it off...because it will make an over-arching story for Leia on the way into my next fanfiction, which occurs after Han's rescue from the Carbonite...a time when I feel it would have NOT happened...Han was blind for goodness sake!
After Endor seems like much more probable, probably because it seems like more of the right time, but then again, we can see such a change in Leia when they arrive at Bespin...so maybe it DID happen there? Those deleted scenes sure showed Leia wanting Han a lot more than what ended up in the movie (and I saw this discussion going on earlier too LOL).
I haven't seen the deleted kiss you refer to. But I've seen the deleted seen where they are fighting at Hoth and Han says something like "You've been so busy being a leader that you haven't time to learn how to be woman. I would have taught you. But it's too late now." So very probably nothing happened before that moment if in ESB at all. :D But it's true, Leia stopped being such a bitch by the way to Bespin. Maybe she just got used to Han, and even more.
ReplyDeleteBut the deleted scene on Bespin, where Han is trying to kiss her but she's avoiding him. I don't know what to think about that. Is she still the same inexperienced Leia? Han seems to me wanting to continue something and she's just pissed off because of 3PO and Lando etc?
If you read the novelization of the Empire Strikes Back, in the deleted Bespin kiss, she's playing hard to get. It mentions Han getting a little annoyed by the fact that she is, but he had chosen to play and I think something about she was making the rules.
DeleteOh thanks! :) I think I've read it 15 years ago! :D I guess I need to read it again...
DeleteI used to think after the victory on Endor, because nothing's better than hot victory sex. I'm thinking she's kind of a mess on the trip to Bespin; this wasn't something she'd planned on, and she's being emotionally swung every which way.
ReplyDelete