Tuesday, November 22, 2016

The Princess Diarist is Out

Because the comments section on the last post had gotten a little long, here's a new one. You can still comment on the other post too of course, it's just easier if there are fewer than 200 comments. Anybody start reading yet? I haven't, I know it is already waiting for me on my Kindle. I'm trying to get some things done today before I start reading because I know once I start then it's all over for productivity. I really didn't expect that we were going to have so much to talk about with this book!

I saw Carrie on Stephen Colbert last night too. She took her glasses off for the first part of the interview and she should do that more often, because she looked so much more like herself. Also when he mentioned Harrison you could tell she knows that she is in big trouble and/or has now essentially ended that friendship. Maybe. Again, it's all so weird in so many ways. She still seems shocked that so many people are paying attention to this. Uh, sorry, of course everyone was going to be paying lots of attention to this.

I finished the whole book the day it came out. I stayed up way too late but got it done. Not because it was so good, but largely because I wanted to get the pain of reading it over with. That is not to say that Carrie is a bad writer, because she is of course not. It's actually incredibly impressive what a good writer she was even at 19 when you read her excerpts. But just the depth of her pain back then is downright heartbreaking. Especially because she doesn't seem to do much to assure her audience that she is much better off now.

Those of you who read excerpts and articles have probably already read most of the juiciest details. When you all heard this book was going to come out, what did you think it was going to be about? It is basically 90% about her being obsessed with Harrison. The beginning is some background of her and getting cast and her first movie role on Shampoo. And at the end there is some stuff about going to conventions and signing autographs. Other than that, it is all about Harrison, and her obsession with him, her wish he would love her, and him being pretty much dead silent about everything.

There is basically not one other thing she talks about in regard to actually making the movie. Oh, a long thing about the hair styling thing but that all happened before Harrison showed up, so she couldn't have talked about him yet. One surprising thing was that at some point in one of her diary excerpts she actually mentions she maybe wishes she had had her affair with Mark instead, because at least that might have been a little more meaningful.

It's just really, really hard to read about someone being so infatuated with someone and knowing that it is not and never will be reciprocated. I think we probably all knew she had self esteem issues, but it is just really awful to read about. And while I am sure all of us have felt similarly at some point, usually when you read something like this you get some reassurance later that things turned out all right, and all those awful feelings were unfounded. This is just that much more painful because we know that's not how it ended up. And I'm not even talking about her winding up with Harrison, because that was just never going to happen. I'm talking about her at least finding someone who would feel about her the way she felt about them.

I really doubt that Harrison possibly could've read this, even if he tried. How many pages could you read about someone having been obsessed with you so many years ago? It just keeps going and going, and then you get to the diary excerpts where it just gets worse when you see how she really felt about the whole thing.

This is just not at all the book I was expecting when this was announced. And I pretty much think there is no way he will ever speak to her again. I think part of him is mad, but I also think that part of him feels bad about the whole thing but what can even be done about it now? Nothing. It's just.... uncomfortable to read about, mostly. And I can see why Carrie is visibly uncomfortable now when she is on shows talking about it. Yikes.

Oh and I almost forgot that she also discusses how she had to start doing autographs and stuff because she really needed the money. Apparently money is an issue for her. So, I do think that that is probably a motivating factor for this book, though I also think maybe now she thinks it wasn't worth it. We probably all would've bought it if she had talked more about like, what it was like to work with a Wookiee. But really it sounds like she spent the whole time being obsessed with Harrison and thought about nothing else.

151 comments:

  1. As much as I don't really like the kiss-and-tell-40-years-later aspect of this book, IF she truly did give him the right to comment and ask for edits/deletions, and he didn't bother to respond, then: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ to him and IF he wants to blame someone, he should look in the mirror. So IF that's the way this played out, I'd say he's really got no grounds to complain or end a friendship now.

    But I keep saying IF IF IF that's the way it played out as "giving someone a heads up" (which some outlets have said) versus "she said she'd edit anything he had a problem with" (which has been said/implied by others) are two different things.

    Unrelated, though: she looks fantastic. I love the silver grey hair and I hope I look that good in 15 years. And if she's truly looking to move to England and find herself a nice, eccentric British professor, I cannot imagine that they would not line up outside her door.

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    1. From what you're all saying below, if she'd edited the affair out, there'd be no book. So...I guess I have to take back my ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .

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  2. I don't have her book yet. I don't have any problem with the revelation as a consumer. I've read other autobiographies/biographies with info about affairs in them. It doesn't bother me. It happens with actors and non-actors alike.

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  3. I think that she somewhat regrets the revelation and then doesn't. She's kind of missing that regret chip somewhat for things, I think.

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  4. Also, if the revelation ends any type of friendship with Harrison Ford, then she must understand the consequences. She knew it beforehand. Maybe she didn't care anymore. I think that she knew what the consequences would be. On the other hand, it has been 40 years... Still...

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  5. I saw the clip of Carrie on that show and she did look fantastic. I also welcomed the fact she didn't have the glasses on because it seems a long time since we saw her eyes, and she has lovely eyes. And bless Gary, his tongue was hilarious.

    So does anyone have the book yet? Your thoughts? It's not out here in the UK until Thursday so I'm impatiently twiddling my thumbs at the moment. I'm almost scared to read it though because I'm worried about how Harrison is going to come across, and I don't want to hate him. I'm hoping that reading it makes me feel better about all this.

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  6. Read chapter one as soon as it arrived on my doorstep this afternoon. Already in love (with Carrie's writing)!

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  7. Wow. This book is painfully intense, and Carrie's a remarkably gifted writer even at 19. I think at 19 my diaries would have just looked like a bunch of idiotic nonsense. But her feelings for Harrison are much deeper than I ever thought they would be and she's PINING over him and desperately in love. He doesn't come across like an asshole or anything, just someone very silent.

    Now that I think about it makes sense though. All those fights in ESB when Harrison was now in a serious relationship with Melissa - well that doesn't happen unless there's still some lingering feelings. But I find it very, very odd that she says after the affair ended they never spoke of it again considering they were living in the same house and spent a lot of time together off-set and on.

    - K

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  8. I am editing my post with my thoughts on the book rather than writing them all out in a comment, so re-read the post if you come back!

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  9. Hello there, it's been a while since I've posted here. Just when I taught that JJ Abrams ruined Han and Leia for me last year, Carrie Fisher now played with my head and made me look at Han and Leia's scenes from ESB in a totally different light. Watching the movie, now I see Carrie and Harrison and not so much Han and Leia. Like some of the dialogues were meant for them. The "I love you" "I know" lines seems sad now…unrequited love like she said. Reading the Carrison part of the book didn't do anything good for me, it just left me feeling bad for the insecure 19 years old Carrie… Some of the poems were also quite sad when you realize the sorrow and emptiness she felt. It left me questioning as to why she felt the need to bare it all like that, for the world to know and to read. Finally remember back in 1998, her speech to Harrison at the AF! achievement award event. She said "Whenever I start to talk, Harrison gets nervous (I guess we know why now). You shouldn't get nervous because it turns out I have a bad memory" She didn't say: "but no worries, I wrote it all down and in 20 years, when that thing called the internet will be widely use, I'll publish it and give you a reason to regret never talking about what happened between us back then".

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    1. Welcome back! And yes, I do have to agree with you. The day this story broke, ESB was on TV and I watched some of it and already I was seeing Harrison and Carrie and not Han and Leia. I am starting to feel like people are going out of their way to completely ruin everything about Star Wars for us. I do hope that soon enough I won't think so much about this. I hope.

      If she is to be believed then she didn't even remember she kept those diaries back then when she gave that speech. It did make it seem odd to me that in that speech she said how he hated doing love scenes but added, "Maybe you just hated them with me."

      I knew I never wanted to know this information.

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  10. I'm interested in why everyone feels this book is making them look at Han/Leia differently. I get that the I love you/I know scene is now a little bit...AWKWARD when you think about the actors, but the more I hear about this book, the more it is pushing me even further into separating Han/Leia as characters from the faces that they wear due to the actors who played the characters.

    Maybe this is because I haven't read the book, but given everything that's happened in the last year (and now including this book), I feel more and more loyalty to Lucas and his characters and less and less loyalty to either the actors giving them a face and ZERO loyalty to the people continuing the story.

    Just a different thought.

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    1. It's just the knowing how she had been so in love with him (or really more likely, as a 19-year-old with an intense crush, thought she was, which is just as painful for someone in that situation) and that he just never said anything about it, and she couldn't talk about it with anyone. So it makes it feel as though she always harbored those feelings and it has to be really hard to try and act with someone who you went through that with. Like I said, maybe I'll get over that quickly. I hope I do and can get back to keeping them much more separate. I mean clearly Harrison is able to totally compartmentalize and was more likely thinking things like, "I wonder when we break for lunch?" while they were kissing in those scenes while she was thinking, "I really missed this, and I hate that it will never be real life."

      I think you read enough excerpts that reading the book won't change anything. I would say most of the worst of it was in excerpts I'd already read, with the exception of the actual diary entries that are mostly full of self loathing and wondering why he will never love her but knowing it would never happen anyway.

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    2. Didn't know there were actual diary entries in it. Eek. My life would be over if my 19-year-old unrequited love/obsessive crush diaries were released to the public. That's "BURN THIS" material.

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    4. If it makes you feel any better, I would've put money on Harrison not being there anyway. I'd say his days of doing official public appearances for Star Wars related events are over, even if this book hadn't come out.

      I think part of it was her feeling like looking back it was almost crazy that she felt the way she did, when she can look back now and know how adorable she was. So it's kind of nice for her, as she even states herself, to remind everyone and herself that she was once young and beautiful and someone her ridiculously handsome and manly costar would want to have sex with. There is even a kind of throwaway aside where she says something about how now when she looks back she can see how she was beautiful, and so many men found it so easy to love her (largely referring to the fact that millions of young men fell in love with Leia) and why do men find it so complicated to love her now? Which is also very sad.

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    5. I wouldn't have bet on him being there either although he did go to a 30th for Empire so... I just hate what's been done to the whole shebang. I guess even if Ford was ready to go for all 3, he's out now so that's it. As much as I love seeing new SW writing and being back in the fandom, I still wish George had not sold. I stood in Costco yesterday and was just disgusted seeing TFA onscreen. I can't stand seeing the Rogue ONe stuff and now the EW I get will have all this stuff about how great the franchise is now - now that they got rid of that pesky George and tore up the OT3 so that we can have our shiny new characters. And we should just get over it...but I can't. It just breaks my heart. I know I should not have this reaction and I don't even know why I have it - I was pretty much done with SW, I thought. Then, as Pacino says in Godfather 3, they pulled me back in.

      Like Kels...I don't even know any more. I mean yay for her she's moved onto something else, I guess? But at the same time, she says "oh, I didn't expect all this" when she sold an interview to People and keyed the whole book around it? C'mon.

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    6. To Kels for the above post-Great post and alternative view.

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    7. I never have trouble differentiating the characters from the actors. And while I have nothing against Carrie or Harrison, I really do love the characters more! I do credit the actors with making our OTP so photogenic, and truly Han would not be himself without the aided hotness of late 70s and early 80s Harrison Ford. (And Leia wouldn't be the same either, without Carrie's intelligence. She's believable as gorgeous and smart. An antecedent to the "girl power" alpha heroines of the late 90s and onward.) Anyway, it doesn't change how I view the characters at all.

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  11. I'm with you Kels re the actors, Lucas and those continuing the story. I was really hoping this would be a fun romp on how it was to make SW, since the on set BTS stuff looks fun... and yes, I would have bought that book. I wanted to read that book. But I don't want to read obsession over Harrison...what if she hadn't had the affair with him but Mark? Same thing. And even though Mark was single at the time, I doubt he'd be much happier now to have all this dredged up. He's avoided saying anything on Twitter, but no one's asked him. I'm sure he's rehearsing his response for the Ep 8 tour.

    I'm also fairly sure Harrison won't be at the 40th anniversary at Celebration after this either.

    And to know that mostly what it is is her pining over Harrison and now saying she goes to conventions to make money (which yeah, so do a lot of actors), then she looks damn disingenous saying she thought no one would care about that and more about how the movie was done. Especially when most of the book is on your obsession with Harrison.

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    1. CV73, unrelated question - did I see on the last post that you said you figure skated? I do too!

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    2. Hey!! yes, I was a very bad adult skater for about ten years and I still follow the sport. What about you??

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    3. I am still a very bad adult figure skater. :)

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    4. The Empire 30th anniversary thing was a different kind of event though, wasn't it? Certainly not the same kind of thing as a fan-targeted event like Celebration is.

      Kels I swear you write and then immediately delete at least 50% of your comments! I go to comment on them, and they're gone.

      But yes, if she left out the affair stuff, there would be very little to this book. Probably zero diary entries could be used, because even though I suppose some are sort of vague everyone would've been able to tell why she was feeling like that. So it would've been the story of her getting the part, discussion on how much of a pain getting her hair like that was, a paragraph of George actually directing her a little on her reaction when Alderaan blew up, and then that's basically it outside of discussion of signing autographs later.

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    5. Sorrrrryyyyy....:) Sometimes I think the better of my big mouth. Sometimes I don't.

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    6. We get email alerts when you comment, and all your comments are in my inbox. So you might as well leave them unless you say something REALLY stupid, because we already read it anyway ;)

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    7. It's not you ladies I'm worried about, it's the random interlopers!

      But clearly I do not have my alerts set correctly as I don't get email alerts when there's a new comment.

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    8. Yay, Kels! (if you're in the US, I still keep requesting for someone to write me Luke, Leia and Han as sort of Johnny, Tara and Terry - the two in the "sport" and the one who just came in and stayed...)

      I don't get notes that there's a new "overall" post but I set up "notify me" on my comments and get notifications on the comments... And I did sign up for the overall. Sigh.

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    9. I have to admit, Luke as Johnny Weir is something that never once crossed my mind until just now...not sure if that's yet another revelation from this week that I will regret hearing LOLOLOL!

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    10. Hah! I aim to please ;-)

      I think it's hysterical that one of the most popular bits on New York magazine's Vulture site is about "I love you/I know" because everyone still cares about Han/Leia and no one gives a damn about the new people?

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  12. Harrison had an affair with an insecure teenager when he was married with 2 kids. Is he embarrassed to see the impact it had at that time on her? too bad. man up and take some responsibility or go sulk and never do Star Ward again. his choice. What he did was very wrong. Carrie did go on to have several meaningful relationships, a daughter, and a successful writing career. No pity for her, she is fine. Does this damage my opinion of Harrison, well a little but I had no illusions. Does it ruin H & L for me? no, TFA already did that. Does it ruin Carrie for me? not. even. the. slightest. go girl.

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    1. "man up and take some responsibility or go sulk and never do Star Wars again. his choice."

      Can't really argue with that.

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    2. I doubt he would be sulking. Just continuing to live his life as a multi millionaire flying his planes and hanging out with his family and stuff at one of his giant houses. I think he's probably fine.

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    3. I'm sure he's not sulking or probably cares one way or the other and never meant to imply that. I just think that she can't claim that she didn't expect everyone to seize on that part of the book when it appears to be a) a big part of the book and b) she got paid for a People magazine "exclusive." That's all.

      (I need that shrug emoticon)


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  13. When you read Surrender the Pink it really does read like Paul is the love of her life and Harrison was just a fling a while ago. I do think she was over it by ROTJ though otherwise I don't see how she could have vacationed with him and this other woman he obviously loved way more than he ever felt about you.

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  14. I read the first and last sections of the book - skipped the diary part for now. I thought it was just very sad.
    Part of the sad reaction is that I'm speculating that this ends her involvement with Star Wars - no appearance in Episode IX, no more conventions or events.

    Are there more talk show appearances planned for Carrie Fisher? She was on Today show Monday morning, but the talk show schedule line up site doesn't show her anyplace else (of course most shows are in reruns Thursday and Friday and some next week too). I don't like Colbert usually but liked that he had some questions she doesn't' usually get asked.

    Coincidentally, I went to a local comic-con event on Saturday. I talked to the Star Wars connected guests, some of the dealers and some of the fans. The only time the book came up in conversation was a mention in the discussion group panel on Rogue One which also went into other future Star Wars. The moderator moved away from that topic probably because there were kids in the room.

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    1. Colbert is a SF fan - Star Wars and LOTR especially so I'm not surprised at his questions.

      I'm surprised she hasn't been on Andy Cohen's show on Bravo, that would seem a perfect fit. Or on ABC, since they are the SW network but I guess heaven forfend if they don't spend every waking hour on Rogue One - and based on all the posts I've seen of "where are Rey and Finn/the Bothans/Why is there another Death sTar" they're going to need that promotion.

      I thought it was pretty set she would be in 9? I think the director is all gung ho to work with Luke and Leia (yeah, again, Han is wrong side of the tracks trash, who gives a damn about his character). Everyone's pretty sure Luke will die in 8 or early in 9, despite what Mark says about growing his beard.

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    2. It's pretty rare I think for anyone to do publicity on a book AFTER it comes out. Although books are different from movies in that books don't rely on the first weekend they come out in order to be profitable. And also with Thanksgiving I'm not surprised either. I do wonder if she will be traveling and doing any book signings though. I'm not surprised it didn't come up at a Star Wars event. It's not technically a "Star Wars" book, and given that she was on zero ABC shows to promote it I think it just has nothing to do with Disney. Not that they are distancing themselves from it, it's just not their product to sell.

      I am not counting on her being in 9 but I haven't been paying attention. I would actually prefer it if she was done in 8, mostly just for poor Leia's character, she has suffered enough! Go let her live her afterlife with Han!

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    3. Hmmm....one more place she could be is The Daily Show - Trevor Noah is also a big SW fan.

      I hold out hope that at least at the end of 9, we get Luke, Han and Leia all in the afterlife and happy - one with the Force (and of course Luke and Leia bring Han with them - doesn't matter that he isn't a Force user, they are and two of the most powerful. I'm waiting for someone to write the Orpheus story that ends happily - the twins find Han in whatever Corellian hell he's been partying in without him and drag him with them.

      "You're coming with us"

      "But I had a winning hand! You know I love you but I HAD A WINNING HAND. Now I'm going to go to boring Jedi land."

      "We can leave you right here and you won't see us for all eternity."

      Leia gives him that look and when he tries Luke, gets the same look and remembers that they are twins.

      "Seriously, flyboy, you're going to be without me for eternity?"

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    4. I have to agree with CV73 that non-diehard fans are reaaaallly confused by this Rogue One thing. The number of people who think it is Ep VIII and are completely puzzled is quite large.

      And, honestly, I. LOVE. THAT.

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    5. Oh, I do too! I keep hoping against hope that it will flop when I know it won't.

      I do think it's funny that now they're rethinking another trilogy after this one. Also infuriating.

      Apparently the Boba Fett movie got sidelined which yeah, that made absolutely no sense to me.

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    6. I think I read they already made back their budget for Rogue One with the merchandise they sold, and that'll probably go up at Christmas. Sadly.

      Maybe people can't tell the difference because they keep casting white British brunettes (Daisy, Felicity, and now Emilia)?

      The director for Episode IX was saying both Mark and Carrie are in it, so presumably Leia doesn't die in Episode XIII. Unless she comes back as a Force Ghost. According to rumors though, she spends most of Episode XIII in a coma after being attacked in her first scene by the First Order.

      - K

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    7. Yeah, British brunettes. Kind of a specific type there - over and over.

      The director of 9 said he wanted to work with both Luke & Leia but hey, they said everyone in 7 would be back for 8 before the movie opened and look how that turned out...

      I'm betting that both of them will be dead in/by 9. Just a question of who goes first...and frankly, as a Han fan, I want it to happen. I don't want Luke and Leia to just ride off into the sunset - that pisses me off no end. The Skywalkers live and Han, just like Padme, dies for the crime of loving them. That rankles. I realize I'm probably a minority opinion on that but well, that's how I feel.

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    8. I hope Anonymous meant Episode VIII rather than Episode XIII. XIII will be the 4th remake of IV where they kill off Finn's grandson.

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  15. Ugh, and here we go, articles and conclusions I don't want to see going around. There is now an article saying that this Carrie and Harrison thing explains them in TFA because just like them, Han and Leia were "doomed from the start." Great.

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    1. I don't know how that could be if others didn't know about them. Mere coincidence.

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    2. Han and Leia are the whipping boys of the press now. After the TFA documentary a million articles came out about how they had a terrible marriage and were terrible parents. Then after Carrie joked they broke up because Han couldn't give up smuggling they ran with that. They just want clicks.

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    3. Someone needs to tell that writer that (1) there's this amazing thing called "acting" that actors do even when their real life relationships don't work out; and (2) Han and Leia are fictional characters and can therefore be whatever the creator of those characters wants them to be, and the creator of those characters said they made it. Hence, anyone later saying that these characters didn't make it or were doomed from the start is the one rewriting the story. Which they can do, but they should admit that's what they're doing (and no one seems to want to do that).

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    4. Was it this article? This author clearly didn't read Bloodline. https://www.inverse.com/article/24291-princess-diarist-harrison-ford-carrie-fisher-affair

      He says they broke up because Han couldn't commit just like Harrison but Bloodline makes it clear it was Ben turning that broke them up.

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    5. Yes, that's the one. Isn't it funny what constitutes journalism these days? You don't even have to be accurate.

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    6. How hard is it to google wookieepedia and look up the reason Han and Leia broke up? Bloodline makes it clear they had a loving successful marriage for over 23 years so Han didn't have any trouble committing to Leia.

      Reminds me of that Guardian article that came out and said that the TFA documentary confirmed that Han and Leia split up long before Ben went Dark. It confirmed no such thing.

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    7. This is why you can't leave rather important plot points to expanded, lesser known material rather than explaining it fairly clearly in the ACTUAL MOVIE so there can be no confusion.

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    8. Hey, I'm still getting in fights on Tumblr with people who think Han committed suicide, since that scene is so badly shot.

      I don't think they knew in the actual movie because it's a mess. I honestly thought the "fifteen years" thing I saw over and over in fic was written down somewhere, I saw it so much. But there was nothing - apparently the novelization says Han hasn't seen Ben since he became a man. People were theorizing that Rey had been part of the Jedi temple so that's where the 15 years came from, but that's all changed. Also changed is that Kylo killed all the Jedi - now it's just "destruction of the temple" in the latest "canon."

      ...and then it's all retconned in Bloodline and Grey supposedly matches up with Ep 8? Maybe they got enough pushback from angry fans about destroying that relationship?

      The whole "Han leaves" is straight from JJ saying that was his head canon - Han always left and he and Leia always fought and she was too busy for poor Woobie. If you want to throw up, I do too.

      They have never explained why Luke left except for Han's speech and even that is bizarre - why does he say "people who knew him best" when he was one of those people? Or are they going to retcon that too?

      Every time I read this in the press or hear it from the producers, I just sit there and think "you all saw Jedi, right? RIGHT?" But then again, this clickbait press puts out articles about how Han becomes a caring person in TFA and I want to just scream. Did you people not see the OT at all? Y'know, where all three of them start one way and end up completely different?

      No, I guess not. It's like Luke turning up with the mechanical hand. Please explain that because that's not the hand he had in Jedi (and yeah, I had to explain that in my fic. I've seen a few other explanations but it's clear the producers don't care at all).

      It's just another damn superhero saga that they can exploit for parts. It's not a saga of family, of struggle, of journey. No, you too can close your eyes and magically get the Force! You too can be a stormtrooper indoctrinated from birth and suddenly be a well adjusted deserter. And on and on.

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    9. Yeah, the movie did not make the timeline clear at all. I saw it with my non-SW loving family and they all assumed Han/Leia were like Indy/Marion in Indiana IV where Han took off while Leia was pregnant, the only difference is that he knew that she was pregnant unlike with Marion. It also made it seem like he had been smuggling for a long time and had gotten into debt with everyone. When you read Bloodline, it doesn't really seem believable that he's rich and famous there and then somehow six years later he owes everyone in the galaxy money and is back to smuggling.

      I keep seeing "No matter how much we fought, I always hated seeing you leave" "That's why I did it, so you'd miss me" being interpreted as that Han and Leia fought all the time and that Han would storm off long enough so Leia would "miss him". Why would Leia put up with that kind of dysfunctional marriage for so long?

      JJ wanting to have his main character have daddy issues makes sense though because almost every one of his characters (Alias, Forgetting Henry) have an estranged relationship with their father. I just wish he hadn't dragged his daddy issues into Star Wars. Or...make Kylo unrelated to the Big Three, then you can make his dad as crappy as you want. Sigh.

      - K

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    10. Well the "Jedi Killer" originally was someone unrelated, in George's version. But no, let's make one of the great romantic couples break up and make the only child of three heroes into a dark lord. Or basically, let's dump the EU so we can rehash one of its plots.

      And if Rey is his cousin? I really want to see Luke's child have to kill or worse redeem Han and Leia's? Cruel, is the only word I can use.

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    11. Unrelated would have been so much better, especially if the plan was to eventually redeem him. Villains usually have a tragic backstory, so making his parents lousy deadbeats wouldn't mean tarnishing any beloved OT characters.

      I don't think Rey is related any more, based on Pablo Hidalgo and JJ's comments. Poor Luke, having his whole livelihood destroyed and never even getting to have a family. I think when they made the Jedi Killer related, they swapped the unrelated character for Rey. I think Reylo and redeemed Kylo and Rey starting the Jedi Academy (after Luke dies probably) is end game.

      - K

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    12. Oh, yeah, that article about Carrison vs. Han/Leia. As I told someone else, would that author get back to me when Luke is revealed to be single in Ep 8, considering Mark's been married since 1979?

      I was shopping today and ran across a "classic" SW calendar = just OT. So there's a big still of the kiss in the carbon freezing chanmber with "I love you"/"I know" on it.

      Anyone else a little, er, miffed that they keep using the OT characters and what they did and accomplished to sell merchandise while at the same time, they had absolutely no trouble destroying their characters and relationships in TFA? I know not just me in this case!

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    13. Also the creator approved the original canon where they, y'know, were together over 30 years (closing on 40, since Crucible ends in 45 ABY? When do Han and Leia marry?)

      But JJ apparently isn't happy unless he's destroying canon in favor of his own - the way he did with Star Trek. The only difference is Paramount, which is making a ton of money off "old" Trek, wouldn't let him overwrite the universe. Disney had no problem with it. He sold them some BS about it being "relatable" and "hey, I can get rid of your expensive actor and we'll have the ship and some guy in a Wookie costume left! And your standalone movie will have no competition."

      They're now peddling the "oh, George wanted to have standalone movies." Right, like you cared so much about what he wanted that you threw the entire treatment he had out the window in favor of Spielberg wannabe's "fitting sendoff."

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    14. I think that Disney knows that it made a mistake with the OT3. They rewrote Han and Leia's backstory. I don't think that it was originally intended that Han and Leia married because it wasn't mentioned in the movie. We'll have to see what they do with Luke, but they have more leeway with him because his backstory wasn't mentioned in the movie.

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    15. Now, to add to that, maybe the next movie will clarify things and mention that Leia was Han's wife. You guys will have to tell me if that happens because I'm not seeing the movie.

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    16. Well, unless Han turns up miraculously alive, I'll see 8 probably on TV after i've read every spoiler in known space...i doubt I'll be going to a theater.

      But I'm sure someone will tell us ;-)

      Yeah, I'm sure Luke will eventually come out "all right" and so will Leia. But that makes me angry as a Han fan - he literally is character assassinated and thrown in the trash. No redemption for him. The Skywalker Twins will just go blithely on and probably redeem sorry ass Kylo on top of it and we'll be force fed some BS about how Han would have wanted it. I know I'll want to throw up.

      Now, if Luke cuts his head off? I'm all for that!

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  16. Oh, one very small note I had wanted to mention about the book that was very overshadowed by so much of this other stuff, Carrie says Harrison's eyes are hazel, and she would probably know. So, that settles that hazel vs. brown debate for any of us who were still undecided, although I'd always gone with hazel.

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  17. Just watched her interview with Colbert after I just found this new post (why am I not getting email updates?!?!) Can I just say how much I love Carrie's dog?!!

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    1. I finally got to see him lick his eyes and I'm so glad I did.

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  18. Does anyone think Disney might have Han and Emilia Clarke's character in the Young Han Solo movie have a child and that child later becomes a hero for later movies/books?

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    1. Trust me, that's crossed my mind. The fact that Emilia Clarke was cast? Could they be setting us up that Rey isn't Han and Leia's child but Han's grandchild? Of course, the Force sensitivity would have to come from somewhere...

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    2. I've been pessimistic about the new SW, but I don't think there's any way Rey is Han and Emilia Clarke's characters's grandchild. Rey's parentage has been planned from the beginning, according to Daisy Ridley. Han's love interest wasn't originally supposed to be white - all the other women who auditioned were WOC and the three front runners were African America and an Indian American. So it wouldn't make sense to have Rey be their descendant.

      Disney is pretty against out of wedlock kids - they even made sure Han and Leia were married before Leia got pregnant, so I don't think we'll see any illegitimate kids of Han running around, UNLESS Han marries Emilia Clarke's character in the Young Han Solo movie or in later EU book.

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    3. Yeah, no, I'm not really worried about that. I probably should be, because as I've said a hundred times, I keep thinking they won't make it worse but then they do. But I think that Disney would stay away from it because as has already been mentioned, out of wedlock pregnancy. Although perhaps they will be married. Wouldn't that be fun to have another dagger to the heart?

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    4. Does it really matter if Han marries Emilia Clarke's character? For God's sake. LOTS of people get married more than once. Heck, I've got an aunt who's currently in a happy and healthy marriage of more than thirty years that yielded two children and is still going strong... and which is also her third marriage. The first two, for whatever reason, just didn't work out. This is a thing that happens and that does nothing to cheapen the eventual, later marriage that does work out - it doesn't in real life and I don't see why it should in Star Wars, either. There is no reason whatsoever why Han couldn't have had a previous marriage and still had the relationship with Leia that he does in and after the movies.

      - Bella

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    5. I think to a lot of us fans, it would matter. And that is not to say I don't agree with you that you can still marry again later and be totally happy and all that other stuff. Of course that is true, I agree. But this is a fictional story where we have the privilege of making things however we want to make them. And yes, I think it's better if Leia was the only one Han actually married, no matter what other relationships he had in his past. Also, to me it doesn't really make sense for his character to have been married before. And also, yes, I do want Leia to be the only one Han has ever been truly in love with. Is that realistic? Probably not, but again, we are playing in a universe where people can move things with their minds.

      And lastly, just because of the way things have been going in this universe with the "changing of the guard" I feel as though they would go out of their way, just like with Bria, to make it as though this character is who Han was truly meant to be with, truly happiest with, and it is just another way to show us why he and Leia really never could've worked out. So there is that fear, too.

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    6. I get your point about real life v. fiction - but whomever Emilia Clarke is, we know it doesn't work out with her, either due to her death or them breaking up. Whichever it is, Han seems to be well over it by ANH where he starts flirting with Leia and ESB where he's actively pursuing her. It's like when they had the TV show Smallville where we saw Superman and Lana Lang - we all knew it wasn't going to work out in the end because he ends up with Lois Lane, but it's still entertaining to watch their love story.

      Personally, I don't see a problem with Han being in love before Leia. I think it's more dangerous to have a man who's only had a series of short flings and one night stands by the time he's 30 to be expected to suddenly settle down into a completely monogamous relationship. Sometimes you need a couple of practice rounds to get it right. It doesn't change the fact that he ends up with Leia and it's played in TFA as though they're very much the love of each other's lives. He hasn't moved on with his life with someone else, and neither did she.

      But then I never got the Bria or Sana hate, so YMMV.

      - Bella

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    7. I lived through the Bria hate, I don't think there is much Sana hate anymore because from what I understand they were never really married anyway.

      And really, I totally admit that this is a romanticized notion not based in reality, but I also don't think I'm alone in my thinking on this. I can justify it also by saying that it wasn't that Han was unwilling to fall in love before, more that it was a lack of opportunity because he was always on the run. And I see him as someone who wanted to have someone to love and settle down with but never really saw it as a possibility just due to his circumstances.

      And my opinion is colored by the Bria thing too. I think most of us who read those books has no such issues with his other girlfrieds like Salla or Xaverri. The difference was that they seemed to go to a LOT of trouble to make it seem like Bria was ridiculously amazing and if only she hadn't died Han could've been with her instead, and also probably a lot happier. So it's not so much about Han being with someone else before, it is the fear that they will make it seem like THIS is the woman he was really meant to be with, and show us that this is just another reason why everything has fallen apart by TFA.

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    8. Interesting, I never got that from the books. To me, Bria seemed incredibly flawed - drug addict, zealot, picks the Rebellion over Han, to the point Han could never truly be happy with someone like that. She wasn't a good person deep down and Han was. Their relationship was incredibly unhealthy and would never have lasted long term - they were only ever together for what, two weeks maximum (a week in Paradise Snare and another week in Rebel Dawn?) To me I think Han was looking for someone like Leia in Bria and when she backstabbed him he realized she was never this wonderful woman he had idealized her to be all these years. Then he met Leia and she was the kind of woman he thought Bria was.

      I agree if she hadn't died Han probably wouldn't have ended up with Leia but that's only because he would have dropped Luke and Leia off on Yavin and immediately left because he wouldn't want to run into her on the Rebel base, not because he wanted to get back together with her.

      I am not too keen on the Han Solo movie, mostly because I don't think Alden looks anything like Harrison Ford, but I'm not too worried for any potential romances taking place 5-10 years before he meets Leia have ANY impact on his eventual marriage to Leia. Maybe we'll see that Han has a thing for short, pretty brunettes with floating British accents who had spunky but that's about it. (Though, I still would have preferred to see Tessa Thomson or Zoe Kravitz in that role).
      - Bella

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    9. See, I agree with Zyra. They're going to set it up this way with Han and new girl because, like the Marvel movies, we're going to get recasts and "love of X's life" until we never want to hear about it any more.

      But that's okay. With the way they're strip mining the OT, they're going to run out of ideas by 2020...

      And yes, it angers me because there's that calendar yesterday with "I love you/I know" on it. There's OT character trading cards in with the Rogue One cards. They destroy the OT characters but they'll keep using them to sell their precious franchise.

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    10. It would bother me if Han married someone before Leia. Absolutely. I have no problem with him having had girlfriends before or being a playboy before being with Leia. But married before her? Absolutely not. This is not negotiable.

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    11. Besides, they already did that stupid stuff with Sana in the comics. Another wife? Please...Obviously, the writers are running out of ideas.

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    12. I personally think that Han shouldn't have a physical "type." I don't care if he has relationships, hook-ups, or whatever, but if Emilia Clarke appears as a short brunette opposite Han? Um, LAZY! I just don't see Han being so limited in his interests...! Doesn't he strike you ladies as a more adventurous man?

      Who knows, they may alter her appearance in the film, just like they're going to have to use platform shoes and special effects to make tiny Alden look halfway as lean and strapping as Harrison Ford!

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    13. Ya know what would be the worst thing EVER? If when Emilia Clarke and Han kiss in the new movie they do it to John Williams' Han Solo and the Princess.

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  19. OT, but here's the early concept art based on Lucas' outline of the two kids of Han and Leia being the main characters (Kira and Sam). https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/a0/27/c4/a027c4c5f059527293e255243bc48ff7.jpg

    Wouldn't it have been SO awesome to see that on the big screen?!

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    1. Here's the Leia concept art: https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/PKO5KfWX_ojSUPwi_GIz6g--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MDtpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://41.media.tumblr.com/c88a6fda80b1c235bf8c7571b539eb2e/tumblr_inline_nztwsfnbnD1sypkn8_1280.jpg

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    2. The first Leia link didn't work for me. However, the 2nd one did, and the art is great.

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  20. The new Han Solo movie will turn into a trilogy most likely: http://www.cinemablend.com/news/1538289/we-may-be-getting-way-more-han-solo-movies-than-we-thought

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    1. Honestly, I'm not betting on that one.

      What I'm betting on? Han Solo movie one. Enrenreich will then be closer to Harrison's age in ANH. So...

      Find a blond boy with abs and a brunette girl with boobs. I'm sure there's some Disney Kids who fit the bill. Hey, welcome to our new Han movie, set between ANH and Empire...it's the OT3! Young, with six pack abs and the ability to play bland copies of the real thing. Don't forget, Disney may own ESB and Jedi, but Fox still has a piece of ANH.

      Lucasfilm has been very cagey. They've said, oh, maybe we won't do another trilogy...meanwhile, let's raid the OT for as long as humanly possible.

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    2. Ew... that would be gross. But true I have no faith in Mouse and Co.!

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    3. Emilia Clarke would have made a half decent Leia for a reboot of the OT (which I feel is inevitable), too bad they had to waste her on Leia lite.

      Other than that I can't think of anyone who could possibly match Carrie Fisher's charisma. Maybe Maisie Williams?

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  21. You never know about the Han Solo movies, but I'm betting against that, too.

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  22. Am I the only one who actually read the book?

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    1. Maybe... I haven't read it. I'm not sure I can survive the torment. Everything I've read in reviews is just so painful. I don't think I could make it through it.

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    2. I have done a quick read, I want to go back and reread in more detail.
      It's a very cringey book.
      To me it's obvious she certainly still loves him, though more as a friend of forty years vs the pining love-struck teen she was.
      The latter third is more about her current life and (as she puts it) the celebrity lap dance of shows and conventions.
      But...
      My husband is going through it right now( a guy who reads about two books a year....). We have already had some interesting conversations about it and he's only read snippets from random chapters.

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    3. I would love to hear some male perspective on the book if you are willing to share. I think a lot of why it is so hard to read for us women is that we can relate to that kind of feeling.

      I did hear another interview today though that made me feel somewhat better, she seemed genuinely surprised by how insecure she was back then and at the depth of her feeling and angst. Also, she will be on Ellen tomorrow.

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    4. Which one is this? I just read one online in Rolling Stone.

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    5. I read it, I wish I hadn't. I think I feel most of what you posted in the original post... she's a good writer but I felt really almost dirty reading it, like it was way too personal for me to actually be reading this, even though I KNOW she herself wrote it for me and everyone else out there to read and wouldn't mind my reading it.

      I have a lot of thoughts but I think the main reason I can't really deal with it is that of course I've felt a lot like she felt (though fortunately not in quite as messy of a situation) and you get older, and you get over that, and you try to forget it, and you mostly do forget it, and then here is this terrible reminder of it, and it's hard to read and deal with that. In this case, like you already said, it's harder because you know what went on to happen in her life later and you know that this isn't really even a low point, that the worst is still coming, and she never really found lasting romantic happiness.

      I personally am not bothered like some people seem to be about the 'ethics' of her having written/shared this. I don't think she owed Harrison or anyone else her silence, and I don't think she did anything morally wrong by sharing what happened. Quite honestly, if you want to be sure someone isn't going to let people know you slept with them, you really shouldn't sleep with them. Granted that due to the status of the people involved this situation is somewhat unique (if I go sleep with someone tonight, and I'm married, yeah, they could really mess things up for me if they told, oh, my husband, but I have no fear or danger of all of America finding out and giving a crap), but ultimately, if he didn't want someone to say something ever, he had the choice of not sleeping with that person, and I feel very little sympathy for him. I do agree and understand that in all ways he's kept his private life as private as possible, and I respect his desire to do that, and I also understand he was NOT famous when he was sleeping with her and probably wouldn't have believed his life would turn out like this but ffs he was married with two kids at the time, if he decided to sleep with a hot 19 year old and that hot 19 year old later decides to tell the world, that's on him. If you want to keep your private life private you have to be really careful who you invite into your private life.

      Also, for the record, I don't think she had any animosity toward him in writing this, because absolutely, if she had wanted to really ruin his reputation she could have ruined it. She basically would have just needed to present the same facts but with a 'and I was always so high on the pot he himself kept giving me that I had no idea what I was doing and he knew it, brutally taking advantage of me, a 19-year-old near virgin throughout the filming' focus. Sadly, he probably wouldn't have been able to dispute this as true since they never discussed how she felt about it and it sounds like she was high on his pot the whole time, and he knew it. She then could have almost certainly thrown in some dirt about his second marriage and why it really ended now that Melissa is dead and wouldn't be able to feel betrayed that Carrie betrayed her confidences, and there you go. Instead I honestly think she was rather nice about the whole thing, given that she had decided to do it.

      As for their friendship, I believe (as is maybe obvious from the above) that she was close friends with Melissa and think you'd have to be pretty cynical not to believe that. I less think that she and he himself were ever really close friends though I'm sure that there were years when they probably did spend a lot of time together. I doubt she's currently mourning hard over the loss of his friendship and she shouldn't be.

      My biggest hope for her is that she's able to find some peace and happiness in what's left of her life. She really is a smart, funny, and very dynamic woman and she deserves it.

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  23. So, what is your review, then? I plan to get the book ASAP.

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    1. I wrote what I thought in the actual blog post here.

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  24. How much of the book would you say was devoted to the love affair? 50%? 70%? Do you think that she still carries a torch for him?

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    1. I said in the post above, it's like 90% her talking about Harrison and her infatuation with him.

      Ok, probably more like 75% and it just FEELS like 90%, but it is a lot, for sure. And you've already read in interviews what she says about him now, she'll always feel something for him. I don't think she was ever truly naive enough to think it would work out between them (and really I think while they can probably be great friends they would not have been able to live together, way too different) it sounds to me like she still feels some pain about this whole situation. Or perhaps she is just enjoying the embarrassment that comes with reading about all your old teenage angst, I don't know.

      We seem to have all moved past talking about this anyway, before anyone even read it.

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    2. I am of the opinion that something occurred between them during Empire during to Kirschner's words of Harrison being in Carrie's dressing room. I think that there is more to this story, but it probably will never come out.

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  25. For some reason this thing won't let me reply directly to your comment right now. Why would she come clean with this story about an affair during ANH but lie about it not continuing beyond that? That makes no sense. Of all the movies, it paints him in the best light if it happened during that one, because it is the only one of those movies he was legitimately single during the filming of. His divorce became final sometime during it, and by ROTJ he was with Melissa. It just doesn't make sense to lie about that, of all things. I agree it seems sort of odd given all of the stories about them behind the scenes, but in this case, I do believe Carrie when she says it ended after ANH.

    And as for the interview, she gave an NPR interview today, it was good.

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    1. Link to the NPR interview, since I saw it go by today:
      http://www.npr.org/2016/11/28/503580112/carrie-fisher-opens-up-about-star-wars-the-gold-bikini-and-her-on-set-affair

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    2. That's my story, and I'm sticking with it. :)

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  26. I don't even believe that he read the book. His lawyer probably did. If it's the truth, which I believe it is, then there's, of course, nothing that someone can sue her about.

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  27. But that being said, if what Carrie said is true, then he had opportune time to have it removed from the book. However, it sounds like "he was the book."

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  28. http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/features/carrie-fisher-on-lsd-death-and-sex-with-han-solo-w451925

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  29. Okay, I found the excerpt I mentioned above. Actually, David Prowse said it regarding Star Wars, not Empire.

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    1. They were living together at Eric Idle's house during filming of ESB, but probably just as friends. It's possible there was a slip up or two, but Carrie doesn't remember it because of drugs and/or alcohol, or she just doesn't want to mention it since Harrison was already seeing Melissa at the time. Who knows.

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  30. A lurker here.

    I have read the book and thought it was really sad. I just want to go back in time and hug past-Carrie and then go back and hug present-Carrie.

    I think a lot of people understand her pain of not feeling good enough and wanting out but at the same time afraid of being actually *out.*

    I just find it odd how someone can be so oblivious to someone's feelings.

    That's my two cents.

    - Angel

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    1. Welcome, lurker! I felt much of the same things you did when I read it. Like I was physically cringing while reading it. I will say that this week I have heard some other interviews that made me feel better about it. In one Carrie seemed genuinely surprised at just how insecure she had been back then. Now to me that means she was certainly not still feeling those feelings, and was so far past them she didn't even really remember feeling them in the first place. Admittedly she did kind of a terrible job of conveying that fact in the actual book as the pain very much seems almost entirely current.

      I will say as to your comment about being oblivious to someone's feelings, I do believe that men very much can absolutely be completely oblivious to someone's feelings. Also possibly just remaining willfully ignorant, meaning he sort of knew but chose to ignore it and just keep doing what they were doing. Yes, men are not great about that. At least we make Han better than that.

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  31. *A lurker feels welcomed :)*

    I had to wait patiently for the book because in my country it was just released.

    In all fairness I didn't think she was still hung up or upset about the past but seeing a person that was in that deep despair once in her life still saddens me.
    It's not embarrassment but more empathy. Like Carrie wrote: 'I'm rampant with empathy.' I think it is because I can sort of relate to past-her.

    The willfully ignorant stuff I sort of can understand. You can kid yourself but for how long? Usually for me not that long because reality steadily creeps in. How do other people keep that out?

    I'm sorry if I am too philosophical about this :P

    - Angel

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    1. No apologies necessary, I felt many of the same things. And I agree that is why it all felt more painful, because we could probably all relate on some level to that kind of angst. And particularly in this case, there is no resolution. They obviously did not wind up together, he went on to marry other people and she wound up in a series of bad relationships. I really feel like this would all have come across a lot differently if she had been, say, married happily to Paul Simon for the last 30+ years. Or anyone else. I do agree that it is sad to read about how insecure she was, especially because as she points out herself now, she was adorable and WAY better off than she really believed she was.

      I do still think you underestimate how oblivious and unfeeling men can really be. Especially a man who was as messed up as Harrison probably was at that particular time. Or if he had any sort of remorse at all, he also maybe was wrapped up in his own feelings of knowing what he was doing was wrong (although I don't really believe he was thinking much about that, my opinion of his character during this time is not all that favorable)

      And I'll also add that the more I think about it the more difficult I find it to believe what Carrie says about her being the only one. His entire approach seems like it was something he was quite used to doing by the time she came along.

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    2. I find it hard to believe Carrie believed she was the only one. I wasn't alive during the 1970s, but I read Harrison's biography which was pretty well-researched and the author makes it sound like his affair with his co-star on Hanover Street was very well known at the time and given that Carrie seemed really, really obsessed with Harrison, I find it hard to believe she wouldn't have followed the Hollywood gossip about him.

      The book I think is uncomfortably familiar to all young girls who have been head over heels for a guy who doesn't feel the same about you (I was 15th on his list of priorities, he was #1 - this is an ouch, I distinctly remember feeling like that). That said, I don't think Harrison had zero feelings for Carrie, otherwise he would have just moved onto the next girl on set, Koo Stark or whoever. I think there was *something* there but Harrison always knew it was going to end when they finished filming.

      Harrison must be oblivious to how Carrie felt though, otherwise why would he agree to live in the same house as her while filming ESB? That just sounds like a recipe for disaster if you thought the person still had feelings for you. Or maybe he thought she was over it, but I doubt she was.

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    3. Well, we can possibly "justify" his fling with his Hanover Street costar if we believe that his marriage was by then over in every way but legally. And I do believe that was the case for that one. That is the only other affair I know of for sure that we cannot easily dismiss as just a rumor. So, it is POSSIBLE. I don't know how likely it is, but it is at least possible, even if we count that one.

      I do agree it is uncomfortable for that reason, among others. You forget that there really weren't any other women on set. Ok, sure, there was that woman who was cut out of the movie who was with Han apparently in the Cantina, but if you're only in the movie for a tiny fraction of one scene, you are probably only on set for like 3 days, max. Not a lot of time to take someone back home for some fun.

      I'm not positive, but was Carrie with Paul Simon by ESB? She may have moved on somewhat by then too. And if they were friends, and Harrison was with Melissa by then, maybe he felt like they could both be adult enough to handle living in the same space.

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    4. Maybe she was trying to be kind after what she spilled?

      I may or may not be terribly naïve but such continuous obliviousness baffles me. Isn't it like confidence? Nobody feels confidence *all* the time right? There has to be some doubt?

      - Angel

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    5. Not a lot of woman in SW, you're right, though if they were filming in London, I would expect it'd be fairly easy for someone as handsome as him to go to the local bar and pick up. I think he did like Carrie - the Making of Book talks about how they had the same cynical, jaded out look on life and same sense of humor, he just didn't see any kind of romantic future with her. The three month affair he probably viewed as a time to have some great sex with a hot co-star and also hang out with someone fun and funny at the same time.

      I think Carrie has a biased outlook (as we all do) due to her feelings of insecurity and looks at it the most negatively she possibly can - "I meant nothing to him" because of how insecure she is. She isn't objective about anything - for example, she keeps going on in the book how she doesn't think she's pretty at all and how she thinks she's chubby - and then when you look at pictures she's absolutely beautiful and incredibly tiny. She just viewed the worst of herself all the time because of her issues.

      I think I read in the biography the rumors of his affair with his costar on Hanover Street were what led to his wife finally filing for divorce, but you're right, maybe they were already separated in all but name and then his wife just finally bit the bullet so she wouldn't be publicly humiliated about hearing about his affair any more.

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    6. It is possible she was trying to be kind and left out some details. But I also feel like they wouldn't have been friends later if he had been really outwardly cold toward her. But then even just knowing what we know of it now it seems odd that she would be ok with being friends later, but Hollywood people are weird.

      Her thoughts about being chubby were not entirely her own fault. They sent her to a damn fat farm before filming!

      I do agree we don't know for sure what ended his first marriage, I've never seen anything definitive on that. I've always sort of felt like that marriage had a fairly long, drawn out demise. I don't know why I think that, they were divorced before I was even born, but I always kind of felt like that. Funny that nobody has mentioned her since this came out.

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    7. Zyra, she started dating Paul Simon at some point during 1977. I remember an old photo of her and a friend (who was either Penny Marshall or Shelley Duvall, I honestly can't remember) on a "double date" in New York. Carrie was with Paul, and her pal with Art Garfunkel.

      So not long after the Harrison thing really, maybe a year tops.

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    8. Her and Paul were very on-off was the story so I'm not sure they were on or off during filming of ESB. The story is that they ended up getting married when she flew to New York to break up with him and then he ended up coercing her into marrying him. He was also way older than her, so maybe Carrie had a thing for older men.

      I think if you read her books it seems Paul and Billie's dad were the great loves of her life, not Harrison. She had a breakdown after Billie's dad left her for a man.

      I still find it crazy she never thought she was pretty, she was gorgeous back then, and the subject of every teenage boy's fantasy! I wonder if she looks back at pictures of her now and realizes how beautiful she actually was.

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    9. In the book she does talk about that. How looking back she does see her appeal.

      - Angel

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    10. Good point. Yes, her and Paul were on and off for years. She must have been separated from him during the filming of The Blues Brothers as she ended up getting engaged (briefly) to Dan Akroyd at that time. That was also shot in 1979, same year as ESB.

      And I agree, she was so pretty back then, it's so sad that she didn't realise that at the time and caused herself so much upset about her looks.

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    11. And another thing the fat farm is just weird because during the entire first film she was wearing a baggy white gown. It's not like you could see much. There is no reason for the fat farm, unless the had the golden bikini idea from the start and were working towards that, which I doubt.

      - Angel

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    12. If you think that is weird or unusual then you have not read basically anything about Hollywood since basically the beginning of making movies. Actresses have always faced pressure to be as tiny as possible. It didn't matter how tiny they already were, they had to be smaller, or wear a corset that required them to not be able to breathe, or were not allowed to eat much at all. Sad but true. Doesn't matter what kind of clothes they were going to be wearing, smaller was better. And I do agree with her I think she had some "youthful" chubbiness in her face. Not FAT, and not because she was overweight and I think she could've lost 10 pounds and it still would've been there, it was just that young thing where your face is a little rounder. It was gone already by ESB.

      I think almost anyone can look back on their younger self and wonder how they ever thought they weren't beautiful. Except maybe myself, because I'm like 50 pounds lighter than I was as a teenager, but that is abnormal! But yeah, I totally believe she felt that way.

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    13. I do get that it is basically the norm in Hollywood to be skinny and tiny but it is not like she had opportunities in the first film to show that she was skinny and tiny conform the norm because of the dress. You saw only her face and hands. Her face was indeed youthful chubby but not like OMG what is that fat bozo doing here?

      - Angel

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    14. She just had a bit of baby fat. I think she actually looks her best in ESB, when she was apparently like 95 pounds, but then I don't know if that weight loss was healthy since I think that was the time she was heavily into drugs. But she did look absolutely stunning in ESB.

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    15. She did indeed. Thanks to the lipgloss xD

      - Angel

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  32. It would be nice if there was resolution after all the pain. For them maybe it wasn't possible. Like you said too different indeed. In real life maybe she is more like Han in ESB trying to admit his feelings and he is more like Leia in ESB pretending nothing is amiss.

    I do think he knew that it wasn't the same for her like for him after he found out about that she only had one other boyfriend before him. After that I think he tried to cool it.

    Do you think men experience regret and guilt differently than women or not?

    - Angel

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    1. She even says in the book she is just outrageously extroverted, and I cannot imagine him being able to deal with someone like that all the time. And regardless of how handsome he was/is, I think she would also get tired of how quiet he was.

      You are maybe asking the wrong person if you want someone who understands men. My opinion of them is dwindling all the time. I am starting to think that they don't feel guilt at all.

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    2. In the book she also said something like he's very handsome but in his face there is a kind of aloofness and grumpiness. When you look at the pictures she's not wrong. I wouldn't want to be in his company 24/7 that would be exhausting trying to stay on your toes around him.

      Maybe they do feel guilt but because they're more action focuses (In my humble opinion) they don't see much sense in mulling things past events over because you can't do anything practical with being introspective.

      - Angel

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    3. Yes, I actually figure he was kind of a miserable human being back then. I don't think he is anything like that now, because he has no reason to be. But back then he has even admitted to being fairly unhappy with himself, not his marriage, but it caused some destructive behavior. And while he seems like an "overnight" success, we forget that he had struggled as an actor for like 12 years by then. That puts a lot of pressure on someone. It doesn't excuse his behavior by any means, but it does maybe explain why he was not necessarily the most pleasant person to be around.

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    4. It doesn't excuse it indeed. I'm prone to think the poor wife being alone so much and raising the children while your husband is out gallivanting. But maybe she wasn't a peach either. Still I'm more biased to my own gender :P

      Do you think he has/had a good bond with his first children? I think maybe it the soured the relationship between them because of the affairs.

      - Angel

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    5. I think that might be an unfair thing to speculate on. He has said before in his own words "I was an inadequate husband and father" and I believe that quote wasn't even just referring to his first marriage. Although I do remember with his second there was a lot of talk about how he and Melissa really put their kids first. But then those kids were also still fairly young when they split up. I can only say that there have been photos of him spending time with all of his kids in recent years, and his son Ben Tweets about him occasionally. I would think you probably wouldn't do that if you thought your father was terrible, but then I'm sure it helps get Instagram followers. But in recent years he has also posted photos of Harrison spending time with them on Father's Day.

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    6. You're right. Maybe I'm drawing to much on how I would act in a situation like that.

      That quote does show some growth and introspective so maybe not all hope is lost.

      - Angel

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  33. I like that I can talk with you girls (I think?) about this. Now that I've read the book I got a lot of feelings about it but I can't share them with anyone else because they're not as invested as I am.

    - Angel

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    1. Yes, you can talk about this stuff with us. Trust me, anyone here is probably wondering some weird stuff you thought only you wondered. I have already had a separate conversation with another member from here about whether or not they were using condoms. So, yeah.

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    2. What was your conclusion? :P

      - Angel

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    3. We were leaning towards no because this was apparently everyone's favorite time of "free love" back then thanks to birth control and no AIDS yet. Although if Harrison really did get around as much as a few rumors say he did then I feel bad that he surely gave her a few diseases to remember him by.

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    4. *Shakes head slightly* Hippies :P

      Was he really that bad?

      - Angel

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    5. If you believe the account in Surrender the Pink, at least he went down on her before they had sex :P

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    6. Oh, I have absolutely no idea how bad he was. Like really, none. Occasionally I read some throw-away line about how he really got around and cheated a lot, but that never seems to be based on anything. And to be fair he really doesn't seem to have a whole lot of scandals or anything out there from that time that says anything.

      I tend to just jump to the worst conclusion when I hear stuff like this. Oh, he slept with his 19-year-old costar while he was married? He probably had sex with any woman he could find.

      I mean, that might be true, but really I have no idea.

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    7. He probably kicked puppies also, that bastard :P

      Maybe he got around because he was terrible and trying to hone his skills, you know for the greater good. He was actually very noble :P

      I'm saying this because of the age-old presumption that good looking men are terrible in bed because they don't have to wow women into their beds; they come willingly as a result of the handsomeness. Haha

      - Angel

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    8. I wouldn't go that far, he seems to like dogs ;)

      It wouldn't really surprise me if that were true of him. Why does he have to be any good if he is hot? Even if the woman is like, nah, never mind. Whatever, he's got another 20 just waiting.

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  34. The last bit about the conventions and the autograph signing was also a bit sad. I get why she nicknames it as lapdancing.

    She herself is the "product" so to speak. That is a reason when their is distance between her and the fans. To them she not just a person like they rest of us but also something they can use.

    It's a bit disconcerting when you think about it.

    - Angel

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  35. I was just reading something interesting on Tumblr. Someone said that she thought that the Dennis Quaid from "Postcards From The Edge" might be modeled after Harrison Ford. I saw the movie years ago. I don't remember it well. Thoughts?

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    1. I've heard that before, and I saw the movie and read the book although it's been a while. I feel like I remember that character being quite talkative and whiny. Really not at all the kind of guy she is describing Harrison as in this book. If he was really quiet then maybe, but it just seems like it was a very different "relationship" dynamic.

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    2. Very different and also very one-sided but also not because it wasn't all in her head; there actually something going on.

      When I read the fantasy proposal bit about his crying and such at first I was that's kind of sweet and sad but then I read further and thought: 'Oh this didn't happen.' For my it would be more easy to sympathize with him if he do show some struggle. Now it looks in some parts of the book that he's just sort of using her? For what: company, needs, to stave of boredom?

      - Angel

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    3. It's really hard to tell if he was "using" her or what. When I first read it I felt more that way, now I guess less so since they did remain friends. But it's really hard to see it as much else aside from him wanting some sexual release while he was there, her being young and attractive and willing. I don't think we'll ever find out his side, and it sounds like he was so quiet about the whole thing that even now all she can give us is speculation. In the book she just says that she thinks he was lonely. Really all of them were. But we'll probably never know.

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  36. Man, this really blew over fast, didn't it? Not that I'm complaining, I just think it's funny how quickly we all seemed to move past it.

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    1. Well, in the scheme of life, comparatively speaking, it's not all that important. Now, if it were 1977...

      And in 1977, I was a child, so I'm not sure I would've known about it or understood it.

      I'm still going to read the book.

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  37. http://www.etonline.com/movies/204449_mark_hamill_weighs_on_harrison_ford_carrie_fisher_star_wars_affair/

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