For any of you who are unaware, although I'm not sure how anyone reading here would be, this is Carrie Fisher's latest book which will be publishing excerpts from her diary that she kept during the shooting of A New Hope. I believe it is only her diary from the first movie. This book was announced a very long time ago and I think originally was supposed to be published last spring and then kept getting bumped out but as of now it is still slated for November 22.
When it was first announced of course I, like many others, was very excited. For some reason I find myself less excited about it now but I will still be reading it immediately. I mean, do we really think she is going to let us know the actual good stuff? It will be interesting to see though just how much she goes into her crush on Harrison at the time. My guess is not much. Although actually I feel like if it only ever really was just a crush (I am far more undecided on the did they/didn't they question of Carrie and Harrison than I am about the same question about Han and Leia on the way to Bespin) she wouldn't really hold back on sharing those bits. Whereas if something DID happen, she would maybe tone it down and underplay it all.
One thing I'm hoping for sure is that she goes out and does some promoting on TV for this one, because if there is anything we all love, it is Carrie TV interviews. And also Gary, who accompanies her on all of these interviews. Also, this is one of the few upcoming Star Wars related things that I do not fear at all will ruin anything for me.
So, are you guys excited? Will you be buying and reading? Have you been reading any other Star Wars books lately? Is anyone still around?
ADDED IMPORTANT INFO!
http://pagesix.com/2016/11/15/carrie-fisher-i-slept-with-harrison-ford/
There it is, everyone. What we have long suspected but never been sure of. As I said in my comment, Ok, really, can we talk about this? I have a lot of thoughts. I mean like anyone I've always wondered, and part of me felt like it was so obvious that of course they did, but then another part of me always felt like, well, she was SO young, and he was definitely married (which makes me disappointed in him even though I should probably just accept that at some point he cheated on at least 2 of his 3 wives, probably a lot) and it also seems odd to me that you can later be close friends with someone after something like that. And now just reading a brief paragraph about how she fantasized about him proposing to her and stuff, even though part of that can just be like, young fantasies, still kind of makes me sad for her. It also makes me think less of him if he really did get her drunk and take her to bed, because that's... well, anyway...
So, well, while the fantasy of them having had this affair was always kind of fun, I'm annoying and can't not think about a lot of the outside factors that make the reality of it seem a lot less fun. But then rules in the 70s were a little foggier. And, well, Hollywood actors.
But seriously, why NOW is she just confirming this for sure? Is it that they shot their last movie together and it is apparent that she will probably never see him again so she's like, what the hell? This is now the only thing anyone is going to ask her about.
I made a new post for anyone who wants to comment :)
ReplyDeleteI'm still here and curious about Carrie's new book. She is always a hoot! I need me some Carrie and Gary!
ReplyDeleteI'm here! I hadn't heard about this book, but I'm definitely interested now. It'll be a real-life break from all the FANTASTIC fanfic that has come out the last couple of weeks! :D
ReplyDeleteOk, wow, you guys. I didn't think we would ever get a definitive answer on this, but apparently... http://pagesix.com/2016/11/15/carrie-fisher-i-slept-with-harrison-ford/
ReplyDeleteOk, really, can we talk about this? I have a lot of thoughts. I mean like anyone I've always wondered, and part of me felt like it was so obvious that of course they did, but then another part of me always felt like, well, she was SO young, and he was definitely married (which makes me disappointed in him even though I should probably just accept that at some point he cheated on at least 2 of his 3 wives, probably a lot) and it also seems odd to me that you can later be close friends with someone after something like that. And now just reading a brief paragraph about how she fantasized about him proposing to her and stuff, even though part of that can just be like, young fantasies, still kind of makes me sad for her. It also makes me think less of him if he really did get her drunk and take her to bed, because that's... well, anyway...
DeleteSo, well, while the fantasy of them having had this affair was always kind of fun, I'm annoying and can't not think about a lot of the outside factors that make the reality of it seem a lot less fun. But then rules in the 70s were a little foggier. And, well, Hollywood actors.
But seriously, why NOW is she just confirming this for sure? Is it that they shot their last movie together and it is apparent that she will probably never see him again so she's like, what the hell? This is now the only thing anyone is going to ask her about.
I'm feeling very impatient today, I can't believe nobody else is talking about this. Is it just because it seemed so totally obvious all these years anyway so it doesn't really seem like "news"?
ReplyDeleteI'm sure once the book comes out then this is going to be EVERYWHERE. This revelation (which we all suspected) is only just leaking out, so I bet a lot of people haven't heard it yet.
DeleteThe stuff out there so far on this admittedly doesn't paint Harrison in a very good light. Married man seduces young inexperienced girl when she's totally off her face from drinking. Plus Harrison is some crazy pot head at this time. It doesn't exactly match the way a lot of us must have envisioned it. But let's wait until we get the book and read Carrie's own words. The websites reporting this are associated with the National Enquirer and you can bet they've twisted it in some way to make it sound as sleazy as possible.
My suspicions appear to have been correct though, that it all happened during the filming of ANH and was done and dusted long before ESB.
I do have to give you credit for that, Claire. You have ALWAYS said you thought the affair happened during ANH but not after. Whenever I contemplated it I always felt like she had a crush on him then but it didn't happen until ESB.
ReplyDeleteI do agree it will be interesting to see what the book ACTUALLY says. And normally I'm the skeptic who reads these headlines and thinks, well, let's wait and see what it really says instead of getting sucked into a headline. But, well, this seems pretty straightforward.
Thanks :) I based my theory on when it took place on various things I've read over the years that basically suggested there was a "tension" between them during the making of ESB, and not the good kind of tension. Reports of them bickering on set, and that famous blow up they had during the shooting of the carbon freeze scene as chronicled in one of the Making Of books. I came to the conclusion that something had happened between them before they made that movie, and it possibly didn't end well, and there was a bit of animosity there when they got back on set to shoot ESB. I do think they sorted things out though and came away from it as friends.
DeleteBut we know they were living together at Eric Idle's house when they were filming ESB so there was probably something going on then too? I think Harrison broke it off with her during filming ANH, then they hooked up again during ESB.
DeleteThey LIVED at Eric Idle's house? I thought they just had that wild party there before they shot the arrival on Cloud City. Well, maybe lots of the cast were staying there? Maybe he had lots of spare rooms and lots of them stayed there whilst at Elstree.
DeleteYes, Harrison Ford said while promoting TFA he was living at Eric Idle's house while filming ESB and Carrie has said for years she was living at Eric Idle's house while filming ESB.
DeleteAnd I find it really hard to believe that two really attractive actors who had hooked up once before would just hang out platonically while living in the same house and filming as lovers on screen...:
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ReplyDeleteYou are correct that Carrie at 19 had probably seen and done things I STILL haven't seen or done at not quite twice her age ;) She does at least in there say she was sexually inexperienced at the time. Of course I'm still quite curious just how much these words have been twisted, but this is the first time it sounds like they really aren't making a stretch but she really did come out and say it.
DeleteIt does seem sort of unfair to Harrison, who was/is clearly a friend, who is now going to be stuck answering questions about this. Although of course because of who he is, I'm sure anytime he goes on any show anywhere that will be on the list of things that are not allowed to be discussed. I do agree though that I wonder at this point if he finally just gave in, or maybe feels bad because she needs the money (her book is already #1 and it hasn't come out yet) but like you said, he is just so private. And why would he want to be letting things out about an affair he had 40 years ago?
And good call on ground rules. Whatever other affair rumors had been out with others, I had always kind of felt like by the time this rolled around, his first marriage was already over in almost ever aspect except the legal one.
According to this article about the the book he went back to his wife and kids after but there were probably already problems in the marriage (he's said in interviews he wasn't a good husband or father): http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/carrie-fisher-affair-harrison-ford-new-book-article-1.2874341
DeleteI do wonder how his sons from his first marriage feel about this all being public (his first wife has passed away).
I think Harrison already knew this was coming because he joked that he'd need a lawyer when she said she was publishing diaries about her filming of ANH.
His second wife, Melissa, passed away. His first wife, Mary, is still alive. And his sons are closing in on 50, my guess is that they always knew something was going on.
DeleteOh sorry - I remember reading she was in the advanced stages of MS years ago and assumed she had passed away by now, but I just googled and shea still alive.
DeleteI think Harrison ended it around the time of ANH but then they hooked up again in ESB. Harrison said during promoting TFA that he was living at Eric Idle's house during filming of ESB while Carrie has said for years she was living in Eric Idle's house during ESB. I find it hard to believe they were just living in the same house together hanging out as friends?
ReplyDeleteIt is kind of skeezy that she was 19 and he was 34 and married. Though we already know he cheated on his first wife because the straw that broke the camel's back was his affair with Leslie Ann Down in Hanover Street.
Can we please stick to things we KNOW are true based on what she has said so far?
DeleteI said "I think" not that it was definitely true. Sorry, I didn't think speculating was against the rules here.
DeleteSpeculating is now against the rules? That shuts down about 90a% of my future posts :(
DeleteThat's not at all what I said. I'm just saying whatever MAY or may not have happened during the ESB filming isn't really all that relevant, and I don't see why everyone jumps all over the Eric Idle's house thing like they were shacking up.
DeleteAlso your insinuation that "the straw that broke the camel's back" was the affair with his Hanover Street costar. While there is probably no denying that affair happened, what specifically was the "last straw" in his first marriage is something I'd rather not speculate on in here.
Okay, but I do feel like if you have a post about their affair in ANH people are inevitably going to also speculate what went on in ESB. It's not really off-topic (plus off-topic posts happen all the time here...)
DeleteI was basing that off of Harrison's biography who said that it was the last straw for Mary and that's what prompted her to file for divorce. I didn't just make it up out of nowhere.
How is it not relevant when you brought it up above? The rules here seem very arbitrary. Maybe we need a list of them so people know what's against the rules and what isn't?
DeleteThere are no official rules. Occasionally a comment will come up that I feel will maybe drag us off on a tangent we don't need to go down, for any sort of reason. That's it.
DeleteSo to be clear, it is forbidden in this post to speculate whether they were still having an affair during the filming of ESB? Just want to make sure I follow the rules.
DeleteMy two cents:
DeleteI like it that there are not rules like that around here. I also like it that we're free to say things like "let's not speculate on the 'last straw' of the marriage of two people whom we don't know." I acknowledge that I'm sure Ewokkey is right that it was in a biography of Harrison Ford because I totally bow down to Ewokkey's amazing knowledge of all things Star Wars, BUT every biography of Harrison Ford is an unauthorized biography and done without his cooperation. So the biographer was speculating on 'the last straw' of the marriage of two people we don't know, which is something unknown to everyone as neither party to the marriage has felt the need to tell us what was the last straw and it feels odd to talk about something that two people kept very private.
Yes that's true Kel. I should have said "according to biographers, that was the final straw."
DeleteI still think it's strange that we can't talk about what happened between them during the fiming of ESB, but it's not my blog and I don't make the rules.
Sorry that should say may or may not have happened.
DeletePeople have different barometers regarding what feels like it's crossing the "invading privacy" vs. speculation line.
DeleteFor me, at the moment, Carrie's book (and discussion of when and where they were bumping boots or not) feels a bit like the latter, but (1) I understand that many people disagree with me and (2) all we have is the hysterically-shouting headlines media designed to get us all riled up at the moment. We will all respond differently to that kind of riling. Some of us pull away as we think it's a bit too much information we're not entitled to or that we don't want to know. Some of us are curious and intrigued.
For me, I never needed to know what they did and when and I'm not thrilled to find out specifics now. But all we're hearing right now is the most salacious part of the book, as that's all the media will ever trumpet. So I'm going to hold my fire a little (at least until I know where to aim)!
There are no damn official "rules." It was simply a request. And as I said, it was more the specific speculation of what may or may not have been the final nail in the coffin of his first marriage that I thought was a little much.
DeleteFor the love of God stop using words like "rules" and "forbidden" as though I'm acting like some sort of dictator. We are getting completely off topic here.
The cat is out of the bag relatively speaking about the affair...I understand why people feel uncomfortable speculating into someone's private life, but then Carrie's book isn't for you probably. Or this entire post. I do wonder how Harrison feels about the whole thing....
DeleteI had a thing written up on what I thought happened during ESB based on external sources but I guess I won't post it since it's off topic. Maybe one day Carrie will release her diaries of filming ESB? We can only hope...
I'm mostly uncomfortable with it because we have no idea, from the excerpts, how he feels about this becoming public. It takes two people to have an affair, and I'm hoping that somewhere else in the book she says that he's ok with this info coming out.
Delete"I had a thing written up on what I thought happened during ESB based on external sources but I guess I won't post it since it's off topic."
DeleteThis is just plain passive aggressive. STOP posting things about what is or is not allowed or making me out to be the bad guy here.
For the fifth damn time, my comment was not about speculating on the affair in later movies but about the statement of what may or may not have ended their marriage, which apparently came from a biography and any of us know that Harrison has never publicly commented on what ended either of his marriages rather than admitting he was not a great husband and father and he regretted some things.
Kels, I was linked to another article that says he was given a draft and apparently did not ask her to change it. But then who knows? Link:
Deletehttp://www.ew.com/article/2016/11/15/carrie-fisher-harrison-ford-affair-star-wars
That EW article is much more "kind" (to use Carrie Fisher's word) than the other articles.
DeleteAh...our media. Gotta hate them.
Bigger question: Can Carrie ever show her face on Twitter again? People were already all over her about this kind of stuff before she ever outright said it was true. They will be relentless now.
ReplyDeleteI guess I kind of feel she knew this when she wrote it...the person on twitter I really feel bad for? Chef Ben Ford. He's going to be blocking numbskulls left and right.
DeleteQuote:"So, are you guys excited? Will you be buying and reading? Have you been reading any other Star Wars books lately? Is anyone still around?"
ReplyDeleteWe are most definitely here. Just quiet, I guess.
I have had this on preorder from Amazon since it was supposed to be out in October?? Meh... Anyways. In the meantime I bought and read "Wishful Drinking". It was fun, darkly funny and insightful, but I was happy it was only 2.99 on iBooks as well. ;)
This particular article is a mix of various sources, and seems to be borderline clickbait. The people magazine link is a little better (I guess).
http://people.com/movies/carrie-fisher-reveals-affair-with-harrison-ford-star-wars/
I think we all knew this. Their chemistry is undeniable. Carrie has always hinted at it and in older interviews she's as high as a kite and mooning over him. Harry always seemed to come down with a case of the fleas, by scratching and twitching whenever he got asked...
As for the rest? At 19? Drunk and doing something consensual with a hot guy you already liked? Ummm. Is this even a real concern? (I stand guilty and have ZERO regrets except that it wasn't Harrison)
It takes two to tango here as far as his being married. They both should have known better. From what I've gathered about this is that he was probably already having affairs when he was working as a carpenter. But of course I'd rank that as speculation.
I grew up on a healthy diet of Jackie Collins novels as a teen and trashy Hollywood gossip mags. So I'm perhaps a bit of a cynic? But after reading Leslie Anne Down's interview http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2216710/Downton-brought-Lesley-Anne-Down-playing-Lady-Georgina-Upstairs-Downstairs-toast-Hollywood.html
capped by the Vanity Fair Article with Eve Babitz.
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2014/03/eve-babitz-los-angeles-party-scene
plus tidbits from Carrie's books such as getting a vibrator from her mother at age 15... Well it seems Hollywood is kinda a F--ed up place.
So yeah... They boned. 70's Hollywood culture. Meh. So what. It's been 40 years. Cmon!!! Get over it. This sort of shit comes out eventually in most families. I don't condone it, but it's not uncommon.
Harry is still my ideal hot man and Carrie is the sassy chick I wanted to be then and still is. I can't wait to read the dirty details myself. I'm just twisted that way I guess. :P
Yeah, I think one thing we can all agree on is that everyone in Hollywood needs to take the "forsaking all others" line out of their wedding vows, unless they intend it as a laugh line. I don't think anyone's surprised by the affair - I'm just kind of put off by the kiss-and-tell by one of the parties to the affair when both parties are still active in the industry and one of them is known not to be real keen on his personal life being in the public domain...
DeleteAngela, do you know more about the Eve Babitz thing? I remember reading that quote a while back, and when I tried to research her I could only come up with the fact that she had written basically a fantasy memoir that greatly exaggerated events. Not that she LIED, just that the entire intent was to write a fictionalized account.
DeleteI'm not saying it wasn't consensual because of COURSE it was. So, sue me, I'm a little old fashioned and I prefer not to know about people I had somewhat admired cheating on their spouses. Not that we didn't all suspect it, but still.
I wonder how much Harrison really cares though - Lesley Anne Down already spilled the beans that he was exquisite in bed or whatever years ago and that was while he was married to Mary too. It's a bit stranger though because they're such good friends (doesn't look like he's kept up a friendship with LAD) and he's going to get hounded about this in interviews (I can see him crawling to get out already!)
DeleteAbout Babitz?
DeleteThis damned thing keeps eating my replies.....
It seems to me Ford was on the prowl in the late 1960’s. If Babitz is to b believed between her Vanity Fir interview and a slightly earlier interview for in The Last Love Song: A Biography of Joan Didion the author uses a quote from Babitz to describe (I think the late 1960’s)
Delete[What made a good party back then?
“Harrison “ Eve Babitz told me. She meant Harrison Ford: Beautiful young actors not yet sure of themselves.]
In her book Eve’s Hollywood her acknowledgements include Harrison, and Saturdays, and Rainier, and…..
More or less; Just… Just the Vanity Fair interview. Remember that was an interview. At one point it says that Harrison gave $50,000 for Babitz's medical costs after she was burned (and stopped writing). I'm certain that she only made that reveal in the interview about the affair.
Two things here stand out.
Harrison more or less stopped working as a carpenter after star wars. He left a number of jobs unfinished because he was off promoting the movie.
Babitz wasn't interested in movie stars, and she said she knew Harrison before he was famous, when he was just a carpenter. Considering Babitz's affair with Jim Morrison of the DOORS, and the fact that Harrison worked as a stage hand for the band back in 1968, the association there would be easy.
http://raymanzarek.com/?page_id=7425
https://books.google.ca/books?id=rRJ4BgAAQBAJ&pg=PA176&lpg=PA176&dq=harrison+ford+carpenter+babitz&source=bl&ots=ZvOhwDPx-t&sig=Zqzqkw9-noLJV7Y-xHog5bwMCJ0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi5nonS2azQAhVX-GMKHbyVAE0Q6AEITDAL#v=onepage&q=harrison%20ford%20carpenter%20babitz&f=false
A google search will turn up all sorts of goodies about Ford in that one…
I don’t care which way you define it.I t seems to me Harry was in the Hollywood system long before his fame in Star Wars. As a carpenter he must have had a lot of satisfied Female customers. ;)
I find it odd that Harrison was described as the best cabinet maker in Hollywood, yet could not put a simple wooden deck together to save his life.
https://www.the-pool.com/people/women-we-love/2016/5/ex-carpenter-harrison-ford-once-built-a-deck-for-joan-didion
and then there is these
http://65.media.tumblr.com/48d383ab5646a04741597a895aaf0591/tumblr_o0yvevoOdt1s16oawo1_1280.jpg
https://peopledotcom.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/harrison-ford-1024-2.jpg
I'm sorry.... But a guy who looks like that on the jobsite in anyplace...much less a struggling actor in Hollywood??? I'm sorry ... but Jeebzuz...His pubes are showing for godsake...
In any case… I’d hire him. :P
(Blushes and grins at the same time)
Ugh, thanks for reminding me of that "9 people a day" quote. Maybe this is just because I'm no fun, but rather than being impressed by that I mostly just find it disgusting.
DeleteBut it does remind me why I don't for one second believe Carrie's line about how she was the only affair he had, and I doubt that is because she didn't know there were at least a few others. He just sounds really, really messed up if we are to believe all of this.
Yeah I share your disgust about the nine different lovers a day bit. Like imagine the STD crop that guy had (errgh). But...That said, I mean; That's pretty f---in virile! Umm. Puts a shiver down my spine.
DeleteI'd bet Carrie was not his first affair, and by the time he was single during ESB, who knows what went on between those two AND the other women around him.
This does not diminish his hotness for me though. Probably because I got over the "shock" of his infidelity years ago.
I'd just like to say in Harrison's defense...His second wife had an affair with Francis Ford Coppola during the filming of Apocalypse Now. It might be fair to assume she also knew (biblically too) Harrison then.
I could be impressed with the virile thing if we were talking about maybe Han nailing Leia nine times in a day. Nine different people over the course of a MONTH seems like way too much to me. So I can't really see past that.
DeleteWas he single during ESB or was he already with Melissa? While I am fairly certain they MET on Apocalypse Now, I have never been able to figure out when that relationship actually began. Though it had to have been happening when he was shooting Raiders in 1980 because I've read stories about her being there on set, and I even read another story about her going with him to the meeting he had with Spielberg about it. But he only got the part a few weeks before filming anyway.
Francis Ford Coppola had an affair, Melissa was single at that time. I agree that one is gross for different reasons, but she was certainly not cheating on Harrison during that.
Here's a bit more info: http://variety.com/2016/biz/news/carrie-fisher-harrison-ford-affair-star-wars-1201918804/ Apparently it started after Lucas' birthday party where Carrie was drunk on wine and Harrison seduced her. It's a bit sketchy, but Carrie's not really your typical 19 year old which is one of the reasons Lucas hired her. And she definitely had a crush on him so I don't think it was a case where she was being taken advantage of.
ReplyDeleteFor anyone who hasn't seen, Carrie has already shown up on Twitter to say some of it is taken out of context. While I am sure based on quotes that the fact that they DID sleep together is true, apparently some other stuff is out of context. Specifically the "bad in bed" stuff. Not sure what else. I hope this book actually clears things up and doesn't just make it more confusing.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I'd second the fact that we're getting typical messed-up media BS (as if the last six months haven't taught us those of us who are Americans about media BS...), as I just saw an article from...I guess it was Radar, saying that their affair started in Tunisia. Did either one of them shoot in Tunisia? I'm guessing no given that neither Han nor Leia is in any outdoor Tattoine scenes...
DeleteOh, good call. I hadn't even thought of that and no, I don' think either one of them had to be in Tunisia. Or at least for sure not Carrie.
DeleteI think the giveaway is that Carrie was not in Tunis and I doubt Harry was (needs verification).
DeleteThe article is a mess of sources.
The bit about Harrison's pot is from "Wishful Drinking"
The bit about exotic fruit is from this interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59SVV_oambc
The bad sex bit? Never heard it. Carrie did say something at the AFI award for Harrison though (read Harrison's lips when she talks about them kissing)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZEFznFE_Sk
So the article is a bit of a mess. I WILL enjoy reading it from Carrie's lips.
Oh and Harrison not liking this reveal? Well...live by the sword and...
True, except that one of the quotes from the book seems to be that she felt she could "trust" him. If that is true, and if he didn't sign off on this book, seems a dubious thing to do. Like I said, who knows, he may be thinking, "I'm 74, I'm impotent, I'm old, and YEP, BOYS, THE WOMAN IN THE STEEL BIKINI? I HIT THAT!"
DeleteHe WAS apparently given a draft and did not ask her to change anything.
DeleteInteresting thought. He did shatter his pelvis in the plane crash, his sex may be limited now. So, why not relive the glory days?
Oh really? He reviewed a draft? Where was this posted? Thanks.
DeleteI really feel like all we can say for now is (1) yes, they had an affair; (2) different media outlets are making up the particulars; (3) only reading the book will give you Carrie Fisheer's "truth"; (4) you have to decide for yourself how reliable a narrator she is.
ReplyDeleteMy two cents:
ReplyDeleteIt's funny. I was away from the internet all day, and look what I come back to LOL.
1) Did Harrison know that this was coming? Did he allow this? Probably not...
2) Do I feel bad for him? Yes and no. While I'm sure that he didn't want it revealed, I do not believe that after 40 years that it wrecked his life in any way. His children are grown. He's with his 3rd wife who didn't even know him back then and didn't meet him until approximately 20 years later. The family might've known about this for years. Who knows?
3) Carrie's motives? I don't know...I suspect that she feels like he is the one who got away. It sounds like he was her "first," so she is still kind of attached to that, I think. I'm even going to imply that maybe she's felt wounded for many years for him not staying with her. Just my thought...
And would I feel bad buying the book? Absolutely not...
ReplyDeleteAnd about their age difference...
ReplyDeleteHarrison should've taken that into consideration, BUT they were both doing pot. Both were adults. Both are to blame, so to speak. Carrie was of legal age, and so was he.
Amazon.com has excerpts:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.amazon.com/Princess-Diarist-Carrie-Fisher/dp/0399173595/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479271227&sr=8-1&keywords=princess+diarist
iluvuiluvkoalasthankyou
DeleteIf you read to the end of the acknowledgements it's interesting to see she finishes with a note to (Harrison's 2nd wife) Melissa Mathison "You are loved and missed"
DeleteWhy is that interesting? It's no secret that she and Melissa were close friends. She has thanked her in several if not all of her books.
DeleteNothing nefarious. It was sweet!
DeleteNever mind what I said about her "first." The book excerpt refutes that,
ReplyDeleteThis article states that Carrie gave Harrison advance notice about the revelation:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2016/11/15/carrie-fisher-reveals-intense-affair-harrison-ford/93936354/
Well, son of a pup, my computer pooped out and erased my comment!
ReplyDeleteOkay, here's what I said:
Bottom line, this really happened between them, whether we knew of it or not, and they are good with it. They've been really good, close friends for over 40 years, and recently (about 2 months ago), a fan asked Carrie about Harrison and she joked that the see so much of each other that they are sick of each other. To them, this is old news. So if they are good with it, if they can have a friendship that has spanned over 40 years, then I am good with it too.
Whatever disappointing mistakes Harrison has made in his life, they are his to own and bear, and that goes for Carrie as well.
As for Carrie's whimsical notions of a marriage proposal, I would chalk that up to a girlish fantasy (I know I have them still.) It happens when you're involved with someone, especially when you're young. I think it's important to note that they couldn't have remained friends if they had broken each other's hearts with a failed official relationship or failed marriage (let's face it, he was not able to be a good husband at that time, and she had her own problems); if the fling had progressed that far, then there would be resentment, anger, hurt, disappointment. But that didn't happen. They obviously care about each other as friends, and I think that's a good thing.
I think they'll each weather this just fine. Carrie has been through Twitter Shit Storms before. And they say there is no bad publicity. There may be a bit of hoopla for a couple of weeks when her book comes out, but really, it will be fine. In fact, it has been fine.
I understand the conflicting feelings about this, but this is hardly the news of the century (it's been 40 years.) So just relax and process it as you will, and it will be okay.
Heey guys! Hmm. Someone had sent me a link to one of these articles today, and I kinda brushed it off at first because I figured it was some recyled BS based on some old info...then I started seeing others talking about it and I was like whaahh...
ReplyDeleteAnyway, interesting. Never thought that she would actually come out with this. And I am wondering why now. I don't even think I've processed this completely yet. I think I definitely wanna read this from the actual source, so yes, I'll pick this up. Ya got me, Carrie.
Hey, good to see you, it's been a while. And I agree, when I first heard I was like, oh, are people completely exaggerating something she said? And then I read it and it's like, well, I guess there isn't a lot of room for interpretation here, is there?
DeleteI never thought we would get an answer either, and I actually liked it better that way. Sort of like knowing the details of Han's past, I don't want to know!
I just realized too, of all the speculating I had done on this, is anyone else kind of surprised that it was actually a full on, ongoing affair and not just maybe a random hookup here and there? I think that definitely surprises me.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWell if you read the excerpts on Amazon she mentions how the new Star Wars movie was useful in that she needed the money. So this is sure a good way to sell books.
DeleteI do wonder if Harrison will regret giving her the ok to finally share it. But he might just be immune from scrutiny at this point in his life.
Anyone worried he will get hounded in interviews, no he won't. When you are famous enough you get to tell the interviewers any topics that they are not to discuss with you during an interview. You can bet this will be on that list.
This morning now I'm wondering how many of his costars Harrison f#@%ed through since apparently it was his thing at least for a little while. Because truly, even though he has been married twice since and this was 30 years ago, people are going to treat this like it just happened. And as has already been said, it isn't a very positive thing for him.
ReplyDeleteI just read the excerpts from the book on Amazon.
ReplyDeleteI guess now that I've seen her rationale for the 40-years-after-the-fact kiss-and-tell, I get it and she's not wrong - if she doesn't tell the story, after she and Harrison pass on, someone else will tell the story in some sort of wildly more sordid way, and she'll have no control over what is said.
I guess I need to rescind some of my "not-sitting-right" comments as she's not wrong in saying she wants to get ahead of what people will say later.
Just reason number 189175091 why being famous is not so awesome. And when am I going to learn to stop listening to the press' version of things ENTIRELY???)
Sigh. Her comments here:
Deletehttp://people.com/movies/carrie-fisher-on-why-shes-going-public-with-harrison-ford-affair-how-much-longer-could-i-wait/
Make me think I shouldn't have deleted my earlier posts questioning whether this was really a not-nice thing for her to do, given that it takes two to tango. If the only response she got to sending him the book was no response, and she doesn't even know if he read it, then I'm back to thinking this falls on the not-right side of the spectrum. I'm not sure why she thinks it can't hurt anybody - if my father had an affair when I was a child, even if I knew about it, I certainly wouldn't want to hear specifics about it even at my age, nor would I want to be an ill ex-wife (whose husband has seemed to make amends over the years) having this dredged up.
And if his only response was no response, can we all please now stop pretending that they're besties? Work friends with a history, I can buy, but I've always been a little dubious about the fan following insistence on them being so close that they give each other pedicures.
Not besties? You're really ruining things for me because I was JUST about to write a fanfic about them giving each other pedicures.
DeleteI suspect that we will never, ever get a comment from him on this. And I'm with you that I disagree with the "it can't hurt anybody anymore" comment. I'm sure his kids and for sure his ex wife know he was no saint. But it has been a very long time and probably not thought about much anymore, it just is what it is. I think anything painful that happened in someone's past is always going to be an issue, no matter how many years down the line. And the thing is, she was young and single and 19. She is the only one this affects on her side. He has several other people who are going to have to deal with questions about this.
Sorry...didn't mean to ruin your pedicures fan fic. :)
DeleteLol. Not besties? Tell that to all the people on Twitter who obsessively 'ship them. There are actually people on there who seriously believe they are STILL A COUPLE and Carrie is going to marry him in the not to distant future.
Delete'Shipping Han and Leia is fine, but 'shipping real people just seems a little weird to me.
DON'T RUIN MY DUCHOVNY-ANDERSON FANTASIES!!!
Deletekidding :)
I find it hard to believe that after 40 years she would reveal such a juicy tidbit if just to keep other people from telling the tale differently. Not after 40 years...There's another reason or reasons.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that Harrison Ford gave his permission at all now.
That being said, I don't know either one of them personally, and I read autobiographies (with tidbits about affairs) sometimes. I will enjoy her book when I get around to buying it.
According to this she was the only one he cheated on any of his three wives with, though she obviously may be mistaken (he was still married to Mary when he filmed Hanover Street): Carrie Fisher reveals Mark Hamill saw her at Harrison Ford's apartment http://dailym.ai/2fWtlIa
ReplyDeleteSounds like she says the affair ended and that was it.
Oh yeah? That's interesting.
DeleteJust spotted a glaring error in that article. It says she married Paul Simon in 1977 and they divorced in 1983. They were married in 1983 and divorced mere months later. Typical of the Daily Mail.
DeleteYeah, I read that too and don't necessarily believe it because as you said, it is mentioned that he cheated while shooting Hanover Street. Also, on tumblr sites you can see the whole People article now. And the way she describes it began, I just don't buy that she was the first and only one. I think that statement was her one "nice" thing to help him out a little so people wouldn't as about others.
DeleteAlso, has anyone read Surrender the Pink? I had been told before that there was speculation that one of the men she described in it was Harrison. This guy only gets like 4 pages and I thought it was kind of a stretch when I first read it. But I pulled it out this morning, and aside from calling him the Marlborough Man and describing him as a "male animal" and being nearly silent, not to mention a 33-year old married man, the People article mentions a line from Harrison that she completely had this guy say in the book. "You have the eyes of a doe, and the balls of a samurai." So, yeah, the guy in that book is completely Harrison.
I read people article and she makes it quite clear that was the end of the affair so you're right Claire, it was done by ESB. I think she may still have had feelings for him because the director talks about how it got a lot hotter on set than it should have between Harrison and Carrie. By ROTJ it seems she had gotten over it and he was with Melissa and they were all good friends. I guess that explains all the Sparks in ESB compared to ROTJ!
DeleteThanks. It's weird though when you look at all those photos of them, sometimes with Mark, on the big publicity tour they did when ANH was first released. On a few of them they look very "cosy" together, and it's odd how this is like months after it supposedly ended. Even though I didn't think it lasted up until ESB, I was surprised that she said it was only 3 months and then it just stopped. And yet there they are looking rather friendly in all those pictures.
DeleteThat's a good point. If she was just transcribing her diaries from "Star Wars," they might not have details of an ESB affair in them.
DeleteSorry that should say she thought she was the only one as far as she knew.
ReplyDeleteMore details on their first kiss: http://hollywoodlife.com/2016/11/16/harrison-ford-reaction-carrie-fisher-affair-the-princess-diarist/
ReplyDeleteThe last two paragraphs of that article made me quite confused about what she is actually saying and what she intends to accomplish with all this. Main thought is: just kind of sad.
DeleteHard to say...Maybe she just wanted to publish the diaries to make some money, but that was a part of it.
DeleteI just read the stuff about him and Lesley Ann Down. I didn't know about that. I knew about the one in the 80's with the young lady from some night show. I forget her name. So, Lesley spilled the beans, too...Hard to be angry with Carrie if someone else did, too. Especially after 40 years.
ReplyDeleteWoah, wait...Harrison had another affair in the 80s? Who is the "girl from the night show"? I've not heard of this, can you give more info?
DeleteSame question. No idea what you're talking about. And Claire and I talk about Harrison a lot and usually know just about everything there is to know that is already out there.
DeleteThis feels different than the Down thing as Down just mentioned it in passing in an interview. This is selling a book off of something that she (when she says in the excerpts that she was glad when it ended, as she didn't feel good about herself) and he (from earlier comments about his adequacy of a husband/father) see to be somewhat ashamed about. That feels different to me.
DeleteKels, that is true. The other thing that bothers me less about the Down thing is that it was so close to the date of his divorce (I believe June of 1979) that it feels more like his marriage was likely over in all but name only at that point. Now who knows, maybe that was also true in 1976 with Carrie (I've never been married but I've known several people who acted single and were very separated for years before actually dealing with the legal side of it) but that's just kind of the way I can rationalize that one in my head.
DeleteWe really don't know which affairs his wife knew about and which ones she didn't.
DeleteLara Flynn Boyle of Twin Peaks.
ReplyDeleteI've not heard this before, but I just googled it. It pops up in this article
Deletehttp://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/harrison-ford-fame-family-fortune-2263184
But it makes it clear that he was connected briefly with her AFTER he split with Melissa and before he met Calista.
Oh, that one I had heard. I believe the Lara Flynn Boyle rumors were before he split with Melissa, it was Minnie Driver that was after. But he actually did deny those rumors, which I feel is unlike him. Usually he tended to just shut up, and while the two were seen out together at least once, though in a group setting, as I said, that was not confirmed. But he already seemed to be in a downward spiral at that point and it was apparent his second marriage was in trouble already.
DeleteI take back what I said about LFB, you are correct, it was after he split with Melissa. I forget that regardless of how late the actual divorce was final, they publicly split up long before that. 1998. Did they get back together at all in there before officially divorcing?
DeleteAlso, I do have to say, when you are talking about a guy who has been married THREE times, it just seems laughable to suggest that he only cheated that once.
DeleteDoes anyone else have weird reasons they had speculated about why this was or wasn't true before we got it confirmed? I had always tried to convince myself that it was just a fun fantasy (because I knew I would feel about it exactly like I am feeling now, which is not great) but I did have some funny things I noticed that made me wonder, and not the typical stuff.
ReplyDeleteOne of those things was the candid, behind the scene photos. There are a few of them of course, but really, there are a lot of photos of Carrie being silly and often incredibly inappropriate with pretty much every other male on the set of Star Wars, EXCEPT Harrison. Chewie grabbing her boob, hugging and making kissy faces at not just Mark but even Anthony Daniels and a Gamorrean guard. It seemed to me almost like she was going out of her way NOT to do that with him so as not to arouse suspicion.
I certainly don't condone extramarital affairs, but this was the hollywood in the 70s/80s...and I have to say that i'm not all that shocked that they had an affair. Really, take a look at all of those early pics of Carrie gazing at Harrison with little hearts in her eyes;) - (I would have been looking at him the same way, lol)
ReplyDeleteAnd since this memoir covers the filming of ANH,and I guess she stated that the affair ended after 3 months, i'm kinda wondering about what the heck was going on during the filming of TESB.
There were some mighty strange things a happening then as well...like her flying off to Finland(?)even though she had no scenes to film there, to visit who- Mark? I don't think so. the video clips of her winking and flirting with him and swinging a braid at him...the tweet's in which she said that her and Harrison practiced their 'Empire' kiss at the Playboy Mansion, cough cough. and living at the same house in England during filming? Hmmm.And I'm just rattling, but you don't get THAT upset over 'I love you/I know' unless something was going on between them still.
Reasons why Carrie did this? I doubt she was ready to file for welfare, so I can't believe it would be for the $$. And I still suspect she would have gotten the 'ok' from him before really putting this out there. Who knows how much they really talk nowadays - Callista probably doesn't want Carrie within 100 feet of him - but not that many years ago, they were still vacationing together (when he was married to Melissa). I have a lot of dear friends that I've never vacationed with, haha.
Wasn't it sad how she fantasized about him proposing? It must be the emotional/ tragic/romantic in me, but I think she has always loved him, to some degree, and probably always will.
sorry, I didn't finish my rant. Maybe Carrie came out with this, in some ways, to legitimize (in her own mind) the time they did share together(?)- again, b/c I think she has always maintained some serious feelings for the man. And don't expect any statements from Harrison. That's how he's always been - very private, so if he's 'quiet' about Carrie's book, one can't assume he's pissed. Maybe 40 years later, and now being in his 70s, he won't really care all that much. I'm sure Melissa and Callista knew what he was all about when they married him. I am quite conservative (shocking, considering the smut I sometimes write, huh?) but I think that Harrison has often expressed regret over his past behavior as a husband and a father; at least he 'gets' it and has tried to make amends.(he continues to help out his first wife, Mary, since she is afflicted with MS) Some guys never take ownership of their transgressions.
ReplyDeleteHey Jean! I agree with your accessment that she's maintained her feelings for him. They do have great feelings for each other and have remained friends. But, I just read another exerpt from People mag and it made me so much better about all this:
DeleteCarrie said that when she called Harrison and told him he may not be thrilled, but that she wanted to write about this and what did he think, his answer was a playful, "Lawyer!"
She said she wanted to make sure he was okay with it, sent him the manuscript and he did not object to it.
She echoed what you said - it was 40 years ago, and she wanted to write about the diaries she'd found and this was part of it and the time has long since passed for anybody to be affected by it.
As for his behavior, whatever he's done in his life are his mistakes to own. He likes being married, he's just not been very good at it for whatever reasons. Maybe he's been a crappy husband in the past, but that doesn't make him a bad person. I'm sure Callista knows who she married - they did not jump into it - it took 8 years for them to marry. And at 74, what else is he looking for?
I don't expect that he will publicly respond to this, because it happened a long time ago, it's not exactly 'news.' And he is very private.
Anyway, I hope this makes you feel better (it made me feel better) to know he was not pissed, but joked with her about it. So they're good. And I love that they're still friends.
She did get over it by time of ROTJ to the point she was such good friends with him and his wife they all vacationed together in Hawaii before filming ROTJ. It seems she was still very besotted with him in ESB because Kershner talked about how there was a lot of anger and sparks between them on the set. I think she had always wanted something more serious but he didn't. But if Harrison knew that, it seems weird he'd agree to live in the same house as her while filming ESB. I have a feeling there may have been a couple slip ups in ESB after too much wine, but not a full blown affair.
ReplyDeleteYeah the fact they were both living at Eric Idle's house during ESB seems a bit weird now if they were no longer together but Carrie still had feelings for him. I'd think Harrison would want to separate himself from that situation! I guess we'll never know unless Carrie publishes ESB diaries, though she makes it sound in that book like that was the end of it.
DeleteAside from the relevant issues of Harrison's infidelity and Carrie's age/ innocence (or lack thereof)....
ReplyDeleteI just wonder...Will this influence fanfic?
To me; Harrison is more of a scoundrel than his SW version. OMG. What's the top # of times/day or # of lovers of the real life dude vs the SW version? (I think Starsky may have it in fanfic) anyways....Yeeesh!
How many ANH H/L fics from hereon in will have H/L consummating before ESB because of this?
Whose gonna be waiting for Carrie's ESB diaries if they are not a part of this work?
BTW I have a number of Eve Babitz's books and Carrie's and the Didion bio in my book library. Got questions? :)
What's interesting is if you read the original script of ESB it very much sounds like Han and Leia have already had a friends with benefits thing going on and Han is interested in it being more and Leia is acting like a cold bitch to him! I love reading fanfic about it even if I don't think it happened.
DeleteI really, really hope this does not influence fanfic. It may, but I would doubt that it would have a big impact. I don't know about you guys, but one of the things I main reasons I love Han and Leia fanfic, is that it is two people who are in love with each other. And that makes the intimate fanfic that much sweeter, too. This entire episode just sounds like the complete opposite of that, or at least from his side. Just some sex, her maybe silently pining for him and him either not realizing that or willfully ignoring it, and that's it.
DeleteThere have been a few interesting fanfics where Han and Leia start up a sort of friends with benefits situation before ESB, and they are usually actually pretty good. But I think in every single one I've seen you have Han falling in love with her and wanting more and Leia holding out as a means to protect herself from being hurt by him. Why do they all follow this dynamic? Because if the roles are reversed, it is just FAR less pleasant to think about. Han using Leia for sex but not particularly caring much about her outside of that, and Leia silently loving him but knowing he will never really want her is not a fanfic anyone wants to read.
It certainly doesn't influence my fanfic ;-) Since the vast majority of fic that's tagged Leia/Han these days is somehow connected to certain villains and what lousy parents they were, I hope the hell not.
DeleteBecause that's not Han - Han is the guy who, as someone memorably posted on Tumblr, would be in his apartment on weekends watching Ice Road Truckers.
Now, have I read/written them getting together as soon as Yavin? Yep. But even if they did, Han has it bad for the Skywalker twins (regardless of whichever or both you think he's actually with). I can't see him sleeping with half the rebel alliance until he and Leia make it official either. He's way too one foot out the door for one thing, and for the other, even if they're not together, it seems like he appoints himself official wrangler/protector of Luke & Leia somewhere along the way (hell, Ford even says in Empire of Dreams he wanted Han to die "for the two of them")
Suave and smooth is not Han Solo. Anyone who gets more upset at "scruffy looking" rather than "nerf herder," hangs around with a walking carpet and goes careening out in a blizzard to rescue his main "romantic rival"?
My two cents
Leigh Brackett has alluded that Han/Leia had an on-off thing going on more than once by ESB according to interviews in the original draft. Leia says something to Han like "Captain, what you would do for me, or what I would do for you is inconsequential to the Rebellion." Han is trying SO HARD to get Leia to admit her feelings for him and she's cold as ice. It's a flip of the "friends with benefits but the woman wants it to be more" we usually see in fiction with Han pining over Leia like a puppy dog. Han is so unsauve he tells Leia she's the first woman he's ever brought on the Falcon!
DeleteThere is a reason why any fiction you read that has a friends with benefit situation and the couple is meant to end up together it is the man who has the feelings first. Because in real life, when the roles are reversed, it never turns into anything more. A woman can be pining for a man and have strong feelings for him but if he is perfectly happy just having casual sex with her then there is virtually zero chance he is going to suddenly change his mind and want more than that. Which is why in all these fics it is always Han who develops feelings first. And Leia doesn't so much NOT feel anything for him as she is not allowing herself to act on those feelings or is in denial. That scenario can be fixed. It just doesn't work the other way around.
DeleteEwwww... This topic is gross! HAHA! Just kidding, except it's totally cringe-inducing for me! And yet at the same time, all these sordid little details coming out intrigue me. I have no intention of buying/reading the book, but if there's an update here with more information after it comes out, and maybe things are *just* juicy enough, I *might* break down and go see for myself!
ReplyDeleteBut no... Ew... all the details I never wanted to know!!!
I love the characters more than I love the actors. And I very much prefer to compartmentalize. (Except that Harrison Ford from that era is insanely hot, and therefore Han Solo is also insanely hot... yum...) Anyway, what's fourteen years, and so what if he was married? I suppose if I were faced with a late 70s Harrison Ford I'd hit it too! (Except would I? Who knows? Maybe? I don't know! Who cares!?!?!)
I'm just here for the Han and Leia fanfic! Much love to all you authors from a dedicated reader!
I'm under the impression that, fortunately, we won't get a lot of "details" as far as sexual encounters go. Which really makes sense, although I suppose could be largely due to Carrie's lack of memory than showing some sort of discretion. Generally it is just really, really bad manners to go around discussing sex details. Even just finding out they did is more than we wanted to know, I think. Although I'm sure there are plenty of people who are absolutely thrilled with this information.
DeleteWe'll get back to fanfic eventually, I promise. We will need a few weeks for this to blow over. Once the book comes out, we hash out the details there, a few weeks will go by and this will no longer be "news" anymore, we can go back to life as normal.
Oh, ewwww Zyra! When I wrote "sordid details" I did not mean "sex details!" Oh, no please, spare me any details about Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher sex... I do not want to know! It was all the other bits about Carrie's insecurities, the way she describes the affair happening, her general impressions of Harrison at the time... OMG. It's just painfully uncomfortable to read or even think about. I somehow got subscribed to People magazine (no idea how) but there's an article in the current issue with an excerpt. I was just a total cringey mess when reading it. "Ewwww!" is the best word I can come up with!
DeleteNow, on the other hand, Han and Leia sex details... I am down for every last bit of information anybody with their fanfic writer mind wants to conjure up. The more detail the better. And it's okay to be very, very, specific. I won't mind!
Haha, well I do agree that I don't really want to know the details of her being in love with him either, and him just... not. It's like I said in another comment, there is a reason we never see or write fics where Leia is the one who is in love with him and he is the one who is like, nah, I'm good, but thanks.
DeleteEven with Han and Leia sex I have my limits on details I don't want to know. Two of them are specific mentions of bodily fluids, and pubic hair grooming habits ;)
OMG. Okay. You got me. There is a limit. Please none of those details at all in fanfic!
DeleteOh my... Just an amalgam of what we've been on about.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3944216/My-drug-addled-drink-soaked-affair-Harrison-Ford-Star-Wars-set-Carrie-Fisher-s-denied-years-explosive-memoirs-finally-admits-happened.html
more goodies
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/carrie-fisher-in-quotes/
just some extended gossipy reading. :)
Kels here (my cellphone never lets me sign in) for some morning levity, fan fic thoughts, and SCIENCE:
ReplyDelete1. HF had actual P-in-V sex 9 times a day? Do. Not. Believe, Ms Babiz, unless (1) all of these women had Vs so wrecked that it was like throwing a hot dog down a hallway or (2) HF has a serious lack of neeve endings in his P, in which case of course he's boinking everyone in sight because he can't figure out what the big deal about sex is. Other than those far'fetched possibilities, sorry, but friction alone would leave that sausage sore and raw way before 9. (I have male friend confirm on this :)
2. My fan fic will not change at all bc of this. I try to be truthful to Han and Leia as I see them as characters, and as Lucas saw them as characters. actor personal lives don't play into my character headcanon, just the characters, whom I have always kept separate from the actors.
"like throwing a hotdog down a hallway" HAAAAA!! Omg, Kels, that's the funniest thing I've heard all week :)
DeleteBut yeah, the friction, that could be a real issue if you think about it. I'd like to think those claims are VASTLY over exaggerated.
Also, if he was, as has been also reported quite a bit, high all the time, wouldn't that make it pretty much impossible to be such a studly man having sex all day long? I mean, I can't really know, because I've never tried pot, nor do I have a penis, but from what I understand, pot is pretty much the opposite of helpful when it comes to erections.
DeleteMan, it bugs me that I don't get notifications when there's a new post on this blog!
ReplyDeleteConfession time: I was in a committed relationship for eight years with a man 14 years my senior, which began when I was 19 and he was 33. It didn't last, and the age difference was definitely a factor in its demise, but I suppose that's why the age difference between Harrison & Carrie at those ages doesn't wig me out so much.
I'm with LoveThis! on this subject; I love the CHARACTERS more than I do the actors, and reading all of the gory details about what went on between the actors puts me off just a little bit. I'm in love with "Han and Leia", and don't really want to pollute my concept of that relationship (fictional though it is) with details of real-life stuff that is a wee bit distasteful.
So, I don't know if I will read the book or not, tbh. I think I've got the gist already, and it's nothing I didn't already strongly suspect: Carrie was clearly besotted with Harrison in the ANH era, and the rather hostile fire in her eyes and the snap in her voice in ESB seems truly authentic, too; both of which observations align neatly with what we're learning from Carrie now about what was going on when....
However, I think Carrie is perhaps leaving some information out (or forgetting), because the tension evident in ESB (and reported by Kershner, etc.) indicates to me that things weren't *quite* as done-and-dusted for Carrie as they were for Harrison by that point, for one reason or another (see below).
Harrison's behaviour then (and subsequently, with his wives and his extramarital affairs) indicates to me that he had (has?) a very relaxed/casual attitude towards sex. For that time and place, it's not at all surprising, even if it is a little disappointing.
With that in mind, though, I can imagine that during the filming of ESB he either (a) tried to play it a bit too cool/aloof/distant with Carrie so as to avoid becoming entangled in a second affair, which pissed her off because she saw herself as sophisticated enough to handle being friends after such a fling, or (b) he tried to stroll back on set and strike up another fun, casual fling for the duration of filming, and she was having none of it.
At the risk of revealing rather more about my own personal history than anyone here would care to know, I've had experience with the latter scenario and can testify as to how hostile it makes one feel (and act), and it looks a lot like Leia in ESB. :D
My mind keeps going back to that pic of the actors walking away from the camera on the set of ESB. It looks very much to me like Harrison is *comforting* Carrie in that pic, the way he has her armed up, tucked against his side. Maybe she really was still breaking her heart over him not falling in love with her....? Daw!
Anyway, never mind. Han Solo is MADLY IN LOVE with Princess Leia, and always will be. So there! :P
It bugs me, too. I wish I knew why you're not getting notifications! I think most people who sign up to get comment notifications still get those?
DeleteI do admit that some of my issues with this are completely colored by my own bias. The age difference bugs me largely because now I'm on the other side of it, and can see myself dating some guy my own age like a normal person and the rage and ultimately helplessness I'd feel if he cheated on me with a teenager. Just another one of those confirmations of other fears I have. Because at my age, who is left? And I don't need to remind you all that most men closing in on 60 do NOT look like Harrison Ford did when he was closing in on 60. Also I know for myself at 19, I was very much a sheltered kid. And it is for sure unfair of me to even begin to compare myself at that age to Carrie at that age. I did already say that I'm positive Carrie had experiences by that age that I still have not had after living nearly twice as long.
And I'll say that for men like that, what I will never, EVER understand, is if they are not interested in acting married (as in, not sleeping with other people) then WHY do you keep on getting married? At this point he is probably too old to be cheating though.
I will say that it made me sad, as Star Wars was on TV the evening after this story broke and I watched some, and I was seeing Harrison and Carrie and not Han and Leia, which is something I do NOT want at all. But I did manage to dismiss from my head that somehow Han and Leia wind up estranged, so perhaps in time this will right itself as well.
I should add here, I do recognize it is more than slightly irrational to get worked up over something that happened between two Hollywood actors in the freaking 70s. Because it is insane to think that anyone should look to that as a "normal" example of real life. I am just overly sensitive to situations that reinforce my negative beliefs.
DeleteHi, just passin by to hijack this thread out of nowhere. I cannot reply directly to the comments here because mobile so am leavin a general commie instead.
ReplyDeleteI am so glad that Zyra brought up the character Henry in Carrie's Surrender the Pink book. She beat me to it. Henry had been long mentioned/ guessed by shippers back then to be Harrison. Am holding the book now and doing a quick refresh.
In the book, the lead character Dinah says that she lost her virginity thrice and we all know how in Carrie's fiction books the lead character is actually herself in disguise, with some minor tweaks here and there. So, in the book, the first time Dinah lost her V Card was when she was 17, and it was a deeply traumatic and regrettable experience that she that she never did it again for a long while. And then when she turned 19, she became "interested in having an affair" (a phrase quite often spoken by Carrie now) making out with men but she was carefully to not do the deed again. Until she met Henry, an "associate professor in the art department" and the married man much older than her, whom she went on to have Thursday affairs with for five months. Also there was a mention of "a boy in the film class who was in love with her" but she went with Henry instead. You can only put two and two together to say that the whole "school" environment was code for the Star Wars set, though the boy in question was still a mystery. Dinah was drunk during her first night with Henry and even passed out during the sex, i.e. inexperience settling in as this was only the second time she had done such thing. She described Henry as having a grown up apathetic poker face, quiet, stern and final which is so Harrison so yeah. Anyway the affair ended when he moved to Chicago for a new job and there he divorced his wife and married someone else.
In the book Dinah remembers Henry fondly from time to time, every so often, prolly because he was her first insight to adult relationship, sex, whatever. I assume Carrie feels the same way about Harrison now. He'll always have a fond place in her heart. And I suppose they're chill about it now, and I think Harrison is past the point of minding the revelation now that he's 70, and with it being such a brief time that happened a long, long time ago in a galaxy far far away. At his and her age, it's more like remembering all the dumb things and screw ups that you did when you were younger but of course I am not justifying the cheating that happened. All I'm saying is that had Carrie divulged this much earlier the impact could have been negative, but now not so much. Explains all along why Harrison was "nervous" whenever Carrie's gonna speak up, e.g. AFI roast.
Also seconding what Zyra said about Carrie being really touchy feely chummy affectionate with all the Star Wars cast and crew except with Harrison. I had been baffled by that for long. There's like 156437 photos of Carrie hugging everyone and only like, three with Harrison (with two being in the Japanese paper or something and it was not even on set!). I'd like to think Harrison had a "what happened here stays here" mindset with the affair and a silent no open affections in public rule and Carrie being so young meekly followed suit.
The "boy" in the "film class" must be Mark Hamill I reckon. It's been reported many times that he had a huge crush on Carrie during ANH, but seems like she only had eyes for Harrison and Mark didn't get a look in.
DeleteLet's just hope Carrie was not so drunk she actually passed out during the sex with Harrison like Dinah did, since that's full blown rape (even if it wasn't considered as such in the 70s).
DeleteIt seems to me that Mark's biggest crush was on Alec Guinness, the way he followed him around.
DeleteAnd in the book, Carrie talks about looking at HF afterwards and her thoughts as he fell asleep, so no, not passed out and probably best to avoid any implication of rapey behavior as that would only be her call to make.
Ok, let's not start throwing around rape accusations here. It goes without saying that we all hope it was consensual, but Carrie doesn't seem to be saying it was anything but consensual. And let's especially not start making accusations based on a book that was a fictionalized account that took pieces from this affair, and you are either taking out of context or not remembering right. In the book, which I have and have looked through a couple of times again since this came out, she mentions that during their first encounter he went down on her and she almost immediately passed out. Then it says when she woke up he was giving her water, it does NOT say that she passed out and he kept on doing whatever he wanted. So let's not start throwing pretty damaging accusations around lightly.
DeleteOh I'm not suggesting anything incindiary happened, Carrie clearly remembers it as being consensual. I've never read Surrender the Pink and was basing my comment on the commentator above saying Dinah was so drunk she passed out halfway through the sex which if that actually happened would have been rape. But if that's not what the book actually says (again never read it) then it doesn't matter.
DeleteOh, I gotcha. Just wanted to make sure we didn't go down that road! Yes, in the book it is a humorous moment when they first get back to her apartment, he gets his mouth on her and she immediately passes out, because she has never had that happen before, and there is definitely some alcohol involved. But then when she wakes up he's just helping her and getting her water.
DeleteOkay... I've never read any of Carrie's fiction... but please bear with me... ewwwww grooooossss! I wish I had something more thoughtful to say about this, but geez... the thought of this fictional encounter being based on an IRL affair with Harrison is just grossing me out.
DeleteOh, don't worry too much. What I just said up there was as specific as it got. The rest did not go into specifics. Just mentioned about how they would have quiet and "prehistoric sex" on Thursdays and that's it.
DeleteIn another glaring example of the media twisting words, today I'm seeing a lot of headlines about how Mark Hamill "almost walked in on" them while they were having sex. Now I don't know who else here read that article, but to me it sounded like he dropped by where they were staying and she was there, but it didn't exactly sound like they were literally in the middle of it and had to throw their clothes on to answer the door, just that to anyone it would seem odd that she just happened to be there during the late morning, just the two of them. Stupid media and their click bait.
ReplyDeleteOMG, really? That's so wrong. The extract makes it more than clear that Mark showed up at Harrison's place and Carrie was already there, it doesn't even hint at anything more than that.
DeleteAgreed.
DeleteHonestly, yeah, I wish this had not all been brought out. I can't figure out why she did, unless she tried to sell the book without it (which I was fascinated in the book for just the BTS stuff but now...I don't want to read it) but was told "hey it'll sell better..." Because she's been pretty circumspect before now...
ReplyDeleteThey all three were all hanging all over each other in the BTS stuff and it's been well documented that all three of them, as the only Americans, were close (Mark has even tweeted that, calling them "Marcarrison" - I'm guessing he's happy he remained the one with the unrequited crush about now...).
Harrison and CArrie never went to Tunisia (at least for SW - Raiders was shot there). Mark was the only one of the three there per the making of book. Harrison arrived in London April 1, Carrie April 9. George's birthday is May 5. She stayed longer on set than he did, but she flew home for a break on the same flight as he did when leaving at the end of June. (Thank you "Making of STar Wars - and I honestly can't recommend the three books on the OT enough - get them in iBooks or Kindle format since there are extra audio and video goodies and they're way cheaper than the hardcover versions)
All these articles on the affair say it finished when shooting wrapped. But it couldn't have. If they started sleeping together in early May, and finished the shoot at the end of June, that's not 3 months. So they must have continued it back in the US after returning from London.
DeleteI've had all of these books for years, and never really sat down to read them. And I'm kind of glad because now when I finally do I will be reading them with a new perspective. Anyway, were they really only on set for Star Wars together for a mere 2 months? That doesn't seem possible. I think on ESB it was closer to 5. But then Han and Leia were also together a lot longer in that than ANH. 2 months just seems like way too short an amount of time for shooting such a movie.
DeleteApril May June would be three months on set, but May June is two months time. Harrison leaves June 28 and Carrie is on the flight back to LA with him. She comes back July 4 and she and Mark finish July 17.
DeleteCompletely off the topic at hand, the books are a gold mine of stuff - for instance, the throne room is shot in the middle of May and the book makes a point of the cameraderie of Mark, Carrie & Harrison by that point. The finale of Jedi at the Ewok village is shot on day 7 of Jedi's shooting...
Oh, also, that's just Harrison's part. Mark got there in March or so and doesn't finish until July for SW. SW itself was on schedule and so was Jedi. Empire went way over time due to a lot of factors, I think one was there was a fire on The Shining and soundstages were knocked out.
DeleteHere's an excerpt from Carrie on kissing Harrison Ford: https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/books/kissing-harrison-ford-and-other-cringe-worthy-moments-in-carrie-fishers-book/2016/11/17/fe77f620-ac5b-11e6-8b45-f8e493f06fcd_story.html
ReplyDeleteThis person is clearly not familiar with Carrie's unique writing style. That really could be describing kissing just about anyone. She certainly has her own way with words.
DeleteAnd here she says the sex was wonderful and they had friendly feelings: http://pagesix.com/2016/11/16/mark-hamill-almost-caught-carrie-fisher-and-harrison-ford-hooking-up/
ReplyDeleteOkay, just saw the acknowledgements. She thanks JJ "for putting up with me twice" (I guess despite the fact he is shit for writing and directing (my personal opinion) he's a nice guy. Despite also the fact that I heard she didn't get along with him).
ReplyDeleteShe thanks Tony Daniels and Peter Mayhew. And Melissa Matheson (who died, what, late last year, I think?)
But not George, Mark or Harrison.
So...I got nothing.
I just found a tumblr that claims that she DEDICATED the book to Harrison, George and Mark. So, if that is true, then it's ok she didn't thank them.
DeleteOh, okay. I guess good? (I need that shrug emoticon).
DeleteI hope it does blow over fast. The conversations I'm seeing on Tumblr are toxic as hell. Including people apparently saying that means Adam and Daisy will hook up. No, I'm serious. I can't...
People are insane and stupid. Internet comments are dangerous right now.
DeleteExcept here, you guys all seem mostly sane and normal ;)
Ok, so as of now apparently she is leaving out details on the sex. Which is certainly a good thing, because that would just be way too much since this isn't fanfic. And for some reason it is fine with me to read about fictional people having fictional sex but I do not in any way, shape or form want to read the details of any actual people's actual sex. However, Carrie has a history of being terrible at keeping her mouth shut. It is basically a miracle that this survived 40 years without any undeniable slip-ups, even if there were plenty of clues and most of us suspected it anyway. But now that we all know, people are going to ask about it, and she is probably going to have much harder time not saying anything.
ReplyDeleteAnybody else pretty sure this effectively completely ends her friendship with Harrison? Han Solo is DEFINITELY not coming back now. I feel kind of bad for him, in 2 weeks he is being inducted into the California Hall of Fame and people are going to bother him about this.
Yep. He is going to end up getting comments yelled at him on whatever red carpet they have for that event. And if Calista Flockhart does not accompany him for whatever reason, from filming to going to something at their kid's school, that will become big bs news, which is why I think his publicist should release some kind of comment as in while he regrets any pain this long-ago relationship caused his family, he was aware of the book, doesn't object to the material in it, the relationship is ancient history between him and Carrie, whom he considers a friend (even if he no longer does) and supports her right to relate the events of her life in a memoir as she sees fit...and that this will b his only statement on it.
DeleteThat's how I'd play it, anyway.
Kels, still stuck on cellphone
Yeah, I wonder at the timing - and whether he'll be back again. I guess if he is, he's hanging with Mark Hamill. Or maybe Comic Con in 2015 was his farewell to all that for real.
DeleteIt's the 40th anniversary next year - if he's not in 8, I don't see him coming to the Celebration, and I'm sure not kissing Carrie like he did at Comic Con.
I'm glad Mark finished the press for his Pop Culture thing before all this broke because I'm surprised he hasn't been hit up for comments yet. No one's harassed him on Twitter yet. Key word being yet.
One other plus? It seems everyone's already moving to the "next thing" so it'll have a short shelf life...
DeleteOh, I have no doubt this will have a short shelf life. Because really, anyone who has even sort of paid attention has pretty much known this for years, even without confirmation. So there isn't really much to talk about. Also, again, literally 40 years ago. I'm OLD and this happened well before I was even born, so this is beyond old news, both literally due to how long it's been, and just because we have all already suspected it. I give it 2 more weeks to settle down after we all get the book, then that will be the end of it. I'm interested though if Carrie is going to be doing any publicity for the release. Seems like standard procedure, but then it comes out Thanksgiving week where stuff like that is sometimes more quiet.
DeleteI am not sure how much the "we're besties" was more in Carrie's mind? Harrison said in the documentary of TFA that it was good to see Carrie because they don't see each other very often, meanwhile in the press circuit for TFA Carrie said they see each other so often they're sick of each other. Harrison's always been more like "we run into each other from time to time" while Carrie makes it out like they're BFFs. But she did join Harrison and Melissa on a vacation to Hawaii and she was white water rafting with them on Harrison's birthday, so there does appear to be a genuine friendship there.
DeleteI do think if they were truly BFFs Harrison would have replied to her draft with at least some feedback. I'm thinking of the friendship of Mindy Kaling and BJ Novak who although seem to have a similar dynamic - 'Mindy wanting more than friendship with BJ after their break up and BJ not being interested actually seem to have a genuine BFF with BJ editing and giving feedback on all the writing she sends him, much of which is about her relationship with him.
I don't think Carrie was saying that they seriously see each other so often that they are sick of each other. The quote I'm remembering was a joke in which she said that they were sick of each other, and then she amended, "At least I know he's sick of me. Because I've seen him in interviews and anytime anyone said something like, 'So Carrie said that she...' and then he goes," *shakes head and groans in annoyance* I really don't think she has ever alluded to them hanging out all the time. In fact I feel like she said in some interviews that working on this was nice because they really didn't see each other much anymore.
DeleteI don't think she has any delusions about them hanging out and talking a lot. I think they probably keep in touch to some degree, as very old friends tend to do, but that's probably it. The rafting trip was in the 90s, that's probably the last time they spent any real time together and was also probably more because of Melissa. Maybe they occasionally run into each other at parties?
I also sincerely doubt that Callista is feeling particularly threatened by any of this. She probably doesn't like the invasion of privacy but this happened 25 years before she even met him and I sincerely doubt that he has spent much time wondering what might have been with Carrie.
I also get the feeling the friendship may be exaggerated more in Carrie's mind. When they were interviewing her about Ford's plane crash she said that she was supposed to be flying with him that day and she warned him not to use that plane or something like that. You'd think if they were such good friends they go flying together that there'd be more paparazzi shots of them hanging out going for dinner and such (someone mentioned Mindy Kaling and BJ Novak, there's like a million shots of them hanging out as friends by paparazzi).
DeleteAgreed about Callista, I doubt she cares. Harrison seems quite in love with her while with Carrie by all accounts it seems he viewed her as a hot piece of ass and someone fun and funny as a friend but never someone he wanted to be in a serious relationship with.
That's not what she said about the plane crash. Remember, the plane crash happened after they shot TFA, so they HAD actually spent some time together recently. What she did say was that while they were shooting they were hanging out one night and he offered to take her out to fly a bit, as he went out flying occasionally while shooting. She was unsure and he said if she didn't want to fly then they could get a beer, and you can't fly a plane for 8 hours after drinking, so they had a drink instead. She sent him a note in the hospital and said "Next time have a beer instead." She has never actually flown with him.
DeleteThey asked Mark about the plane crash on something and he said that he dreads Harrison calling him and then saying "let's go flying." But I know Harrison and Mark have said they don't see each other much at all - but based on those photos, they must pick right back up where they left off and Mark had that great quote about Harrison being like Michigan J. Frog - funny, goofy and even dancing and then someone comes in the room and he's cool Harrison again. So they know a different side of him.
DeleteAwww. Reading that bit about Mark and Harrison makes me sad we'll never see an on-screen reunion of Luke and Han :(
DeleteI'll have to look up the quote...I thought it was like "Do you and Harrison still see each other?" and she said something like "Yes we're sick of each other". It does seem like she brings him up in every interview to gush about how handsome he was and how she had such a crush on him while Harrison you'd have to pry anything out of him with a crowbar because of how private she is. But if they were actually good friends, he should have at least replied to her sending her draft to him - sounds like she doesn't even know if he read it?
DeleteTragic and unnecessary that we will never see Luke and Han on screen.
DeleteIt's not really unusual that they don't see each other. It's just life. I mean, I haven't been out of college anywhere near as long as these guys have been done making the original trilogy and there are friends I was very close with and really like but never see because our lives are just in different places. But I'm sure if we were all in a room together it would be just like old times.
Yeah, don't even start me on that one. Because I could forgive almost all the BS characterization and overall garbage that was TFA ...if Luke, Han and Leia had been together, in one scene. That's it. But hey, we had a Death Star to blow up! Can't have Indiana Jones take the map he was handed and go find the missing treasure aka Luke. Can't have the one time they're all there actually include a scene of them together. No, we'll just have JJ and Larry talking about how great it was they were all at the table read of the script - like JJ and Larry had NOTHING to do with why they weren't all together in one scene. Like someone else had decreed they couldn't be together.
DeleteAlternately, TFA could have had Han come up that hill behind Rey, bitching about the stairs. I've already written that scene once and I'm writing it again with Han and Leia instead of Rey. And that will be my ending of that movie (of course, the whole ST is not my damn canon unless Han is miraculously raised from the dead).
Mark's tweeted a couple of times about Luke and Han not meeting, once with "please don't go there" when someone asked. He did reply to someone who asked if Luke felt Han die that we needed to "wait for 8"
And wait...why did Carrie say JJ put up with her twice? Rian Johnson directed 8, even if JJ helped write the "story." So was Carrie in something else JJ did or what?
Okay here is the quote (scroll down): http://carriefisherclassic.tumblr.com/page/4. Someone asked "Do you and Harrison still see each other?" and she said "Yeah, we see each other all the time. I'd like to say oh my god it's good to see you, but we're sick of each other." Like I said above though, I think if they were THAT close he would have at least let her know he read her draft...
DeleteI think JJ was on the set for Episode VIII because he's still exec producer (barf) so that's probably what she meant.
I thought the same thing about a future Star Wars movie. Yep, that probably ended Han being resurrected. And then again, who knows, maybe Harrison appreciates that a little bit. Maybe it's a bit of an excuse not to come back.
DeleteAnd maybe, just maybe, that's why Han and Leia didn't kiss in the movie.
DeleteI thought Carrie talking at the end about "the chance for Carrison to still happen is slipping away" and about them getting married and growing old together was kind of...not cool to Callista? I'm sure she was just joking like Carrie always does but it was a weird way to end the chapter.
ReplyDeleteI think you're probably reading too much into that. I feel like it is more of a matter of fact statement, that everyone is, well, old. I don't think she is actually saying that they should get together. Personally I don't think those two could tolerate living with each other.
DeleteIsn't Callista, like almost a quarter century younger than Harrison Ford? What's fourteen years? Damn... Harrison Ford is old...
DeleteHarrison comes off as a jerk a lot both in interviews and in person. Doesn't have a good track record with marriage. Maybe he agreed to allow Carrie to spill the details of their brief relationship; his way of aknowledging his part in the affair and that he's sorry for taking advantage of a very young Carrie. His first wife is still alive with advanced MS. Second wife died tragically one year ago. Feel sorry for his children. They are the ones who suffer the most.
ReplyDeleteIt is becoming clear that being involved with Harrison Ford is not good for one's health. Aside from his current wife, his actually for sure confirmed relationships involve a first wife with MS, a second wife who died of cancer, and Carrie who has had terrible drug issues and suffers from bipolar disorder. Meanwhile he falls out of the sky in planes with dead engines and seems to make it out ok.
DeleteLeia/Han Fan,
DeleteThat's a very good point you brought up. Could very well be.
Harrison and Carrie are on good terms. She became good friends with Melissa, his second wife. Melissa helped Carrie with her writing, since she's a screenwriter and they even vacationed together on occasion. Don't know if Carrie brought Paul or some other significant other. To me it's strange if it was just Harrison, Melissa and Carrie in Hawaii. Hmmmm...
DeleteHollywood is a strange place for sure. I know Harrison, George and her other friends tried on their own to get her off drugs after she split from Paul. These are good people with good intentions, just bad luck. Harrison can be a moody dick. Like Carrie said once before, he's no picnic.
I like Han Solo the character very much, but over the year's not so much HF.
ReplyDeleteGuys,
ReplyDeleteThis isn't really that much a big news item. No Star Wars fan at work, and there are few hardcore ones at my workplace, even brought this up.
Can't get reply to work, but I would say, yeah, while I love Han, Ford gets on my nerves a lot. However, he is paying for his first wife's medical treatment...so I'll give him points for that.
ReplyDeleteI guess. Although since he has roughly a bajillion dollars, him paying her medical costs is probably roughly the equivalent of you or I buying a friend a coffee maybe once a month, at best ;)
Delete(I'm kidding mostly, it's nice that he is doing that even if it is probably 100% out of guilt and doesn't mean he actually has to interact with her at all)
True. But he could have just done nothing and there'd be the lovely Enquirer headline or two. So it may be guilt but he still could have walked away. (also she's Ben and Willard's mom, so I guess they still must interact at some point)
DeleteAlso in the US I'm thinking it probably more like buying a Starbucks franchise a month ;-) (Not that he couldn't do that either)...
His kids are nearly 50 and he's been divorced for over 37 years. I can't think of much interacting they would have to be doing. I've got an uncle with kids with a wife he's been divorced from for just about as long and I think he has only seen his ex wife maybe at their kids' weddings, but that was a while ago.
DeleteNo I mean the amount of money to him that is required to pay medical bills is like us being average people buying coffee once a month, because it has that little impact on us financially.
Gotcha and agreed...
DeleteI read on Tumblr the Amazon France store has more excerpts available (in English). Can't confirm yet as I'm on my phone.
ReplyDeleteSounds like Harrison had a weakness for costars...:the only other costars I can think of who matched his chemistry with Carrie are Karen Allen in Raiders and Kelly McGillis in Witness. I don't know if anything else was going on with those two but I doubt it. Carrie says about Henry (the guy who's clearly Harrison) that he went onto remarry and he stayed faithful to his second wife.
ReplyDeleteFor costars who were hooking up behind the scenes him and Leslie Anne Down have zero chemistry in Hanover Street LOL.
It's interesting that Harrison and Carrie go from having this electrifying chemistry in ESB, no doubt fuelled by behind the scenes tension from their previous affair and probably mutual attraction they still had for one another to just going to having like no chemistry in ROTJ and their last Ewok kiss seeming like it was between two platonic friends than lovers. Sigh. (Yes I love ROTJ but the Han/Leia chemistry is sorely lacking from the Sparks in ESB...other than their kiss at Jabba's palace which is great).
I hadn't seen Jedi since the 80s and saw it again in the summer and while it holds up as an action movie and the stuff with Luke and Vader is great...much of the rest of the characterization is clunky. I think it's more that Marquand isn't the same kind of director Kersh was, because you see a lot of the ESB script pages with big rewrites.
DeleteThere's this little BTS bit in the briefing room where Harrison's working with the crew on how they want him to cross frame, while Mark and Carrie are standing in that loose embrace and Harrison just comes over and he's holding onto both of them. And they pretty much direct themselves - Mark or Carrie says "real lines" and off they go. Marquand said they were like their own little club.
Also I'll never understand why the sandstorm was cut and the scene where everyone says goodbye to Lando is cut down to just Han and Lando. Both played better than stuff that was left in.
Well, Kelly McGillis is gay so that seems unlikely. And while he and Karen Allen had chemistry and seemed friendly in behind the scenes stuff (which is making me realize just now, did that movie have a promotional tour? I don't think I've ever seen even a single photo of those two doing publicity for it) I just don't see that one, and have never once heard a rumor about anything.
DeleteI wouldn't say they had no chemistry in ROTJ. The script did not exactly give them much opportunity for chemistry. I felt there was chemistry when she first got him out of carbonite, and the later in a lot of their small interactions, she would often have a hand on him or something. And when he said I love you and she said I know.
I do agree their final kiss wasn't great, but a lot of that was the disbelief, and then of course an Ewok interrupting them. I just don't think it was really because the chemistry was an issue though.
Sandstorm was technical issues. The equipment kept getting sand in it, the sound was terrible, I think they gave up even trying to finish shooting it.
DeleteI do agree I think they all cared a lot more in ESB and went to a lot more trouble to make sure every scene was right. And I think a large part of the not caring as much, aside from it just being the third time so they were all kind of tired, was that Han and Leia specifically weren't given much to work with. I think Lucas purposely downplayed them to give Luke his big movie, because they very much outshined him in ESB. And that is not meant to be a slight to Mark, or to Luke's story, it's just that the Han and Leia story was a lot more interesting to watch.
I thought the same thing about Hanover Street, for two co stars that were sleeping together on the side, there is like no chemistry at all between them in the actual movie.
DeleteI thought Harrison's quote on why he wanted to do Hanover Street was funny because he said "All my other roles have been asexual" - Han Solo awakened my puberty, so I disagree with him on that one! LOLOLOL
Hmm, that's interesting because I saw a quote from Harrison while he was filming ANH which said "I always knew I wouldn't get the girl. Han knows if he gets the girl it would just be a one night stand." So it seems Harrison acknowledged that ANH Han was attracted to Leia in ANH but wasn't interested in sticking around. ESB Han on the other hand...
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8tLF8XwvG0&feature=youtu.be
DeleteThey rerecord the dialogue for those scenes that have bad sound quality (as evidenced by the dialogue diffence above. (carrier's is clearly a rerecording, whereas Harrison's lines had not been updated yet. I agree the sandstorm scene should have been kept, it make me shiver seeing Han put his hand up on the Falcon's hull in welcome before he strides up the ramp.
Yes! That part with the Falcon. The part with Luke is so much better than the VO in the cockpit. The part with all three of them is so much better - it's so sad that it's like Han and Leia already know that something is going wrong with Luke. And who told Han about Luke's hand?
DeleteSomeone also pointed out that Han sees Luke and Leia kiss, which sets up his reaction in the village and his "I won't get in the way" a lot better - he's seen them kiss, thinks they got together while he was gone.
I just went onto the French Amazon.com website. There aren't more excerpts.
ReplyDeleteEvery day I become fixated on a specific detail of this whole thing. Today it is my surprise that HE was the one who started it. If it had happened I'd always kind of imagined her throwing herself at him, and of course men never turn down opportunities. Or at the very least maybe more mutual like they were hanging out one night and having fun and wound up kissing and it progressed from there. I definitely did not picture it like this, the two of them in the back seat of a car and him moving in to kiss her. I don't know why, but I just never thought of it as something he would start. Which is dumb, because he is a man, so of course.
ReplyDeleteI think she always thought he wasn't good enough for him, so she probably wouldn't have initiated it? In the book she talks about looking over and seeing how handsome he is and wondering how someone as good looking as him could ever be satisfied with someone who looked like her.
DeleteShe also was relatively inexperienced (he was her 2nd, after Griffin Dune according to the book) while he probably had plenty of experience seducing other women.
It also looks like Harrison was being a gentleman and the affair started because he was rescuing her from some crew members that were trying to get her drunk.
Yes, very "gentlemanly" to "rescue" her from some guys who may or may not have taken advantage of her, only to take her home and take her to bed himself.
DeleteI will say that does sound like a very Han Solo thing to do, though.
He is Han Solo, Zyra! Too funny.
DeleteI don't think Han would think that far ahead ;-)
DeleteThis is reason #Eleventy Billion why I didn't want to know all this...
I kinda wish I'd never known....there are shippers of them that are all excited like this was some big romantic thing...No, he basically sounds like an opportunity who took advantage of an opportunity that presented itself while he was away from his family filming. And then after Star Wars, he did the exact same thing when he was in Britain filming Hanover Street with Leslie Anne Down. It sounds more like he was just horny for whomever he happened to be co-starring with than that he was specifically attracted to Carrie or anything. He was only the second man Carrie had ever been with, so of course she thought it was more, but realistically it just seems like Carrie was just another notch on a string of affairs. Nothing romantic about that.
DeleteNow wait, he could've gone after one of the many other women in the movie but he chose Carrie. Oh, wait...
DeleteThere are more quotes available here: http://harryandcarrison.tumblr.com/
ReplyDeleteReading the quote "I loved him and he allowed me to" makes the "I love you" "I know" scene all the more painful. No wonder why Carrie had such a hard time with the filming of it.
ReplyDelete