Monday, June 25, 2012

Who Fell In Love First?

I figured we might as well toss out a post to get some discussion going on the current poll.  In case you're reading this once the poll is closed or don't know what I'm talking about, the question is: Did Han fall in love with Leia first, did Leia fall in love with Han first or did they fall in love with each other at the same time? 

I find this an interesting topic, myself.  I have my own thoughts on an answer, although at the same time I'm not sure I'd be able to pinpoint exactly when either one of them fell in love with the other.  Is there any particular moment you see as defining in that respect?  It can be from the movies or maybe you think it's something that happened off screen. 

Obviously the poll is running fairly lopsided at the moment, just like Han's grin.  Your answer doesn't have to be based on when either one may have even been able to admit it to themselves that they had fallen for the other. 

Just another fun topic to get some discussion going!

47 comments:

  1. Loved this question, even though it was something I'd never really thought of before. I don't have a moment where I feel the love just happened, it probably was gradual over a longer period of time. My answer, though is based on a couple of things. First off, Han is the one that's voicing the idea of Leia's affection, so to me, he's accepted it while she hasn't admitted it yet. Makes me think maybe he's been feeling this longer. Also, as often mentioned in writing, he's stayed with the Rebellion despite the fact that he shouldn't have for self preservation. Sure, he liked Luke and returning to Jabba wasn't an appealing prospect, but there's got to be a bigger reason to stay three years at something? Right?
    Just my reason for voting the way I did.

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  2. Han fell first. Absolutely no doubt in my mind. He's chasing her at the start of ESB, he clearly knows what he wants, and probably has done for a while, and he senses that she is starting to feel the same way, but she's fighting it. The novel Millennium Falcon says he started to fall for her right there on the Death Star. I can pretty much believe that. Think he was blown away by her feistiness and the way she basically took charge of her own rescue. Damsel in distress she ain't. And I also believe she was indeed the reason he hung around the alliance right up until ESB.

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  3. I totally agree with both Char and Claire, you both summed it up pretty well. I don't really have much more to add.

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  4. I would agree, but I voted they fell at the same time. Han was the first to know how they felt about each other that's for sure. And he might admit it to someone else if they asked. Maybe not. Of course, not sure he would have admitted to her. He probably would have rather kissed a tauntaun. And he really did know what he wanted. But I have a feeling that Leia liked him pretty early on too. I mean, c'mon, other than him running his mouth, wouldn't you? But she was heavily denying it and wouldn't even admit that she had fallen even to herself. That counted in my book.

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  5. I honestly think Han fell in love first. She facinated him from the beginning. A woman who could stand up to him and I think it grew out of there sometime between ANH and ESB. Whether you think they kissed before ESB or not I do think Han kept pursuing Leia pushing her buttons to get her to be interested in him.

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  6. Han. As everyone else said. His toughness and sarcasm just flourishing around her were all signs that he was falling hard. She came around quickly after, but I think it hit him immediatley, although I'm sure he'd never admit it. Someone should write a fanfic about this!

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    1. Interesting idea. You have idea of the general premise? Like how they knew they were in love or fending off questions about it?

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    2. I was thinking maybe from Han's pov or a split story with both of their pov's about the particular moment he knew. Or he could be interrogated about the nature of his relationship with Leia and he comes to his own realization that he has fallen for her. Of course it could also be more light-hearted too :)

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    3. Interesting. Very interesting. Light hearted would be pretty funny. Thanks.

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  7. I also voted that Han fell in love first. And I really don't think it took him that long even though I'd be hard pressed to pinpoint an exact moment. Leia was drawn to him from early on, I'm sure. But I feel as though she was suffering from a problem I can relate to: being oblivious. Sure, she noticed he was hot because who wouldn't? But I don't think she thought anything beyond that, mostly because she wasn't looking for someone and probably wouldn't have even considered she'd have a chance at anything beyond a one-night stand with him before he disappeared. I think everything she felt for him was new and confusing so it took her a while to sort it out in her own head and even admit it to herself.

    I'd be really interested to hear from anyone who voted that they fell in love at the same time or Leia first. I promise, we're not going to just argue you're wrong! I think arguments can be made for other possibilities. Maybe Han was in more denial than we like to think.

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    1. Quite frankly, I had a hard time with this poll question and must have changed my answer several times. At first I said they both fell for each other at the same time. I can actually see all three versions happening, but in the end I chose the first option
      I have to agree with you Zyra, I think Leia was oblivious for a long while. I too can relate but that is another story. Leia was too wrapped up in the rebellion to see Han as anything other than a natural leader, but then again...... she was drawn to him early on, maybe not romantically, but one of the first things she notices about him and comments on is his "courage." And how can you not have a slight twinge of something when we winks at her during the medal ceremony. There is a line in Zahn's Choices of One which to me tells me Han has "noticed" her. It's so simple but there is just a mention Han's catching the scent of Leia's hair as he is looking over her shoulder at some missile calibration work she is doing. Just a passing aroma or something to taunt his soul?

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    2. I was going to mention the "he certainly has courage bit", Seams. She's definitely noticed him by that moment, just look at her face as he dashes off. Of course she isn't really thinking about how courageous he is, she's thinking "phwoar, look at that ass!" ;)

      Even though I truly believe Han fell first, I don't think she was that far behind him. It just took her a lot longer to fully realise exactly what she was feeling, whereas Han knew pretty much from the beginning.

      But yeah, would love to hear from people who think Leia fell first. Don't be scared!

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    3. Like that he gets a hint of her scent. That's neat.

      Lol, Claire. Are we sure Leia didn't fall first? I mean one look at that butt running down the hall and she was probably a goner. ;) The wink at the medals ceremony probably just sealed the deal.

      And remember what that one pic on f---yeahhanandleia said? "He certainly has courage" translates to "I'd hit that." :)

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    4. LOL amara, you are so right about that.

      "Into the garbage chute, flyboy!" --> "Let's see if that ass looks as good in action as it does standing still" ;-)

      great, now I'm gonna be thinking about Han's ass all day at work :-)

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    5. So you will be having a really good day at work JZ :)

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    6. Ha! Glad to help, jz. I bet it does look even better in action.

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    7. sadly, none of the tax applications I was working on yesterday included the question "how hot is Han Solo's ass?"

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    8. Clearly the application forms need to be updated.

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    9. LOL girls! :)

      JZ, is there a tax on Han's ass?

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    10. there better not be a tax on Han's ass. if there is, though, I've got dibs on the remittance. after all, I'm a professional.

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  8. You think she was oblivious to the fact that felt strongly for her or to her own feelings? I have a feeling she knew she would fall hard for him or already had. Otherwise, she wouldn't have been fighting so hard. I would guess she wasn't inexperienced at brushing off unwanted advances and maybe she sensed this was more than that. Just a thought.

    I'd love to hear from others that would say differently, especially if you think Leia fell first.

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  9. Hi, first time commenter and longtime lurker here! I guess I am in the extreme minority, but I believe Leia fell in love first. Now, I think Han was more interested in pursuing something early on, but as far as being in love, I think Leia fell pretty early. I guess I see Han's love for Leia evolving slowly as lust combined with friendship. I think it would have taken him a lot of time to be interested in something more than a casual relationship. I believe that the more time Han spent with Leia, the more he learned about her, it would have become progressively harder for him to picture a life without her presence. Over time, I believe attraction, admiration, respect, and friendship combined, making Han's fall fairly gradual. Leia, on the other hand, would have been less comfortable with a casual relationship. For someone of her upbringing, it seems like any romantic inclinations would be heavily associated with a serious commitment. I personally don't believe that she had ever been attracted to someone on as many levels as she was to Han, and I think she kind of hated herself for contemplating a romance with someone who appeared so self-serving and commitment phobic. Once Han returned to help Luke with the Death Star, I think that gesture would have convinced Leia of his true character (mainly because she wanted to believe he was a good guy because she was so into him physically). I am not that familiar with the EU, so I don't know if any of the books contradict this, but I am willing to say that Leia fell in love with Han within a few months of the destruction of the Death Star. I think she was afraid to admit it (for a variety of reasons) and was definitely afraid to start a relationship with him, but I believe she was in love with him within 3-4 months of meeting him, while I would guess it took Han right around 1 year to fall in love with her (maybe a little less).

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  10. I made and stand by my Han first statement earlier, but I'm so glad to hear the Leia first POV. After all, it's not like we have defined moment in the movies or books. I can understand the viewpoint of Leia. As one mentioned earlier, she remarks in a happily impressed way on his "courage" Also, she really seems upset that he's only in it for money. After all, she'd probably be grateful that she was rescued from death and possibly able to continue with her mission to stop the Death Star. And then, after the Death Star was destroyed she was very excited to see that there was "more to you than money."

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  11. When I saw this poll, I felt pretty strongly that Han fell in love first. I also thought it would be a great topic for discussion, so I'm glad to see that it is. For me, when he comes into the command center on Hoth and pulls Leia out - "That's it" - he's in love with her - right then and there. You can see it in his eyes and his insistence. He's not leaving without her because he's in love with her. They have definitely been fighting an attraction up to that point and Leia eventually comes around and falls in love with him, too, before the carbonite scene, but that's where Han is in love with Leia.

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    1. That moment in the command center on Hoth is definitely pivotal (did I spell that right? it doesn't look right)

      It's one of the spots in ESB that I would pick as the moment Han admits it to himself.

      I can make a case for right at the beginning when he tells Rieeken he's leaving and his eyes are on Leia. He's leaving because he knows it's the right thing to do, but he knows she's going to be hurt, and he doesn't want to leave her like that. he wants her to understand. but he tries to make light of it instead and she stomps off.

      She's still in denial at that point, but to me, that means she's fallen in love already. she just doesn't beleive it yet.

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  12. At first I was sure Han was first, but I did have to go back and think it through. I eventually did for it though, but I can see it either way. I think Zyra brings up a good point that Leia probably wasn't even thinking of it back then.

    I was thinking about that scene on Hoth too. It's obvious he's in love with her there, but I was also thinking about Leia in that scene. She spots him the instant he walks in and keeps her eye on him. Then she's pretty quick to chase him through the hallways! Of course she's more reluctant to express her feelings, but I think you could reason that she's in love with him there as well. I don't know...it's interesting discussion!

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    1. I agree about the Command Centre scene on Hoth. She is definitely making eyes at him there, and look at her expression when he tells Rieekan he's leaving, she gets a rather pained, desperate look on her face, which she quickly gets rid of by the time he approaches her. She's in love with him then, for sure, but of course, still can't accept it.

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  13. Welcome, okhotshot. Not sure I've seen you post before. There's a great quote from the radio drama where Han asks if the command center staff has a evacuation ship scheduled. Luke replies, "Yeah, her too, Han."

    Char, I'm sure Han gave Leia all sorts of reasons to love him whether he intended to or not. And certainly the ones you mention.

    Welcome, Argyle Alli. Love to get Leia's point of view. And good points. Leia certainly had the upbringing that attraction and romantic interest meant relationship. And you summed it up nicely that she probably hated herself for falling for someone that appeared self-serving. The EU certainly is scattered with various girlfriends for Han. I personally do not subscribe to the idea that he was shy of commitment because he was burned in the past (I won't say her name). It's probably a matter of debate how casual Han liked his relationships to be. I can see your point that a deep commitment was probably not what he was looking for at the time. And he probably figured she was out of his league.

    Curious if there are any thoughts on if Han would have turned her into just another notch on the bedpost if he could have? I think that at some point he had a certain level of respect for her that he wouldn't have tried. But if he thought she'd go for it, does anyone think he would have? Sorry just another random thought. :) Was just thinking that if he was attracted to her, but not falling for her yet, would he maybe try something else, try for a casual relationship.

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    1. I feel like Han just wouldn't want the responsibility of a serious relationship when we first meet him. I mean, his profession isn't really that suited to a long-term romantic commitment. That being said, I never got the feeling he was a love 'em and leave 'em type. I can't picture him lying to a woman in hopes of getting laid under false pretenses. He probably favored women who were also looking for hookups or a casual relationship where expectations were made very clear. So, in that respect, I could see him putting the moves on Leia early on, hoping that she might be interested in a fling or something like that, but I can't see him using tricks or lies to seduce her. Once it became clear that she was a woman who required commitment, I am guessing he continued to flirt with her for fun, but I am guessing he kind of stopped pursuing anything with her until he suspected she was more interested than she claimed she was (which could have easily happened very early on).

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    2. Oh, agreed. He wouldn't have lied to get someone into bed. Doubt he had to. I was thinking more along the lines that you were, give it a shot and see if she was interested in something more casual. Of course, I'm forgetting she's still a teenager in ANH. So he might have not thought of her like that right away.

      He certainly seemed to enjoy flirting with her, but her denial of her feelings sure seemed to drive him crazy.

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    3. , Han was not the type of guy to want commitment of any kind when we first meet him , whether it be romantic or friendship, or even fighting for a cause, like the Rebellion. He was very much his own guy, who did things his own way, and he just wouldn't want to be tied down to anything at that time. This of course changes as his character arc evolves.

      And I agree, I don't see Han lying to women to bed them. He more than likely pursued women who he knew were not in it for the long haul, and wouldn't expect anything heavy. There were probably a lot of ladies like that in his line of work.

      Big big welcome to the new people who have delurked, Ok Hotshot and Argyle Alli. Always great to hear different views on stuff, and it's much more fun with lots of us commenting!

      Argyle Alli, you make a good case for Leia falling first. Interesting stuff!

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    4. Catching up on some commenting! I agree that Han wouldn't have turned her into a notch on the bedpost. He knows she's young and while it might not be entirely obvious right away that she's probably a virgin, I just don't think he'd want to get involved with someone younger and inexperienced. As has already been said, I don't think he'd lie to anyone to get them into bed. I see him as being up front about what he wants in a relationship and I don't think it would be that difficult for him to find women to fill that need. I think he'd run for the hills if he thought that sleeping with someone would make them want some sort of commitment from him.

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    5. Hmmmm. Makes me wonder how he must have felt then as he fell in love with Leia, realizing that he wanted a commitment from her or willing to commit to her.

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    6. Yes, at what point did he realise he wanted so much more from her than just a notch on the bedpost?

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    7. When did he actually want more from her? I think that's harder to say. I almost feel like for a while all he really wanted was for her to admit that she actually liked him because it was driving him insane that she wouldn't actually admit it. I also wonder if he did decide he wanted something more from her, but at the same time didn't really entertain the thought as an actual possibility.

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    8. I was thinking that if he didn't want to fall in love, how did he react to the fact he was. Did he get mad, did he try to resist it like Leia did? And I think you're right that he may have figured it would never happen. Not sure he'd think she was out of his league though. Anyhow, if he thought it wasn't possible, did he try to stop thinking about her or stop how he was feeling?

      You definitely captured the crux of it. I think he was pissed off to no end that she wouldn't admit she liked him. She may have gotten so afraid of her feelings that she didn't even dare to like him just as a friend for fear of showing how much she really liked him.

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  14. "Love means that the other person's happiness is essential to your own" - Robert Heinlein

    Falling? At the same time, or within a few hours. Leia really wants Han to stay with them on Yavin, but not to be talked into it or bullied into it. And so she walks away in the hanger and lets him go because it's what he wants. or what he says he wants, at least. And Han, of course, can't do it. He comes back. And it's because he chose to come back that she's so impressed. Right there, in that hanger, at the end of ANH... BANG.

    Now, admitting it to themselves? That's a whole different question. Han first, definitely. Somewhere in ESB, and depending on the day of the week I would say different spots, but somewhere, he admits it to himself. At the very least, on the platform in Bespin, he tells Chewie to take care of her. Because she's what matters to him, not whatever is about to happen to him. And I think Leia didn't admit it to herself until the words left her mouth.

    Admitting it to each other? Leia first, obviously, on the platform at Bespin. I think for Han this was right after his rescue.

    my two cents. and a little more. :-) off to work now. been popping in here now and then to read the posts on my tablet but never time to log in to comment properly. great to see new commenters BTW.

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    1. Excellent observations JZ, that makes me want to go back to change my vote to both at the same time. Love the "love" quote. Welcome to the new commenters.

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    2. I was thinking the same thing. Falling and admitting are two different things. They looked ready to befriend each other at the end of ANH, ie looked pretty chummy.

      I might make the case she was admitting it to herself before the words left her mouth. Would she be as mad about him leaving if she hadn't? And that whole scene in the apartment. I would think she wouldn't be asking about him leaving the way she does if she hadn't already thought about that she loved him and he would be gone. Just something about her choice of words.

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    3. That was a great post JZ, and I love that quote. So true.

      Whilst I would say Han more than likely admitted to himself he was in love before ESB I am in total agreement that Leia didn't admit it to herself until that moment in the carbon freezing chamber. No question.

      Amara, a good point about her choice of words in the Bespin apartment. But I think she said that to get a reaction from him, to see where they stood with each other. I don't think she really wanted to admit her love to him or even herself if he wasn't going to stick around. But then when he's going to be frozen, and they may never see each other again she couldn't bare to let him go without that admission. Couldn't bare for it to be left unsaid.

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    4. Good points. I'm sure that by the beginning of ESB both Han and Leia were deeply in love with each other but I only think Han was willing to admit it at least to himself.

      Watching all the Hoth scenes he spends a lot of time trying to get her to admit she feels the same way. I think so he can decide whether staying is really worth it.

      I do think that Leia fell for him early (before ESB in both cases) but she was very young, very inexperienced, and also reeling from losing everyone she had cared about. So I don't think she would have admitted to herself what she was feeling and may have even been a bit afraid of those feelings and what they might mean.

      So another question... who fought their feelings longer and why?

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    5. Oh, good question. I think for sure Leia fought her feelings longer. Han doesn't really try to hide anything. He wears his heart on his sleeve. Leia absolutely did NOT want to fall in love with that man, or anyone. I think both because she wanted to be completely focused on the Rebellion but also because of the possibility of being hurt even more down the road should anything happen. If you lose your whole planet I think it would be difficult to let go and love for fear of losing someone.

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  15. This is a great topic and great comments! I wish I had more time to comment, but I'm going to quickly say that I think they may have fallen in love at relatively the same time but Leia was more clueless as to what was going on. Speaking of clueless, I imagine that something finally triggered her to have that "Ah-ha!" moment where she figured out that she was in love with Han and it hit her like a ton of bricks. It wouldn't have been when she fell in love, but when she realized it. Kinda like in the movie "Clueless" when Alicia Silverstone's character is in front of the fountain and has the realization: "I'm butt crazy in love with Josh!" And then she remembers back to everything that had been happening that indicated her falling in love with him. Meanwhile, Han probably knew what was going on as it happened and probably tried to fight it a little bit (or talk himself out of it) but was unable to stay away from Leia and thus it was a hopeless cause. Anyway, that's my quick thoughts. :-)

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  16. Oh, and welcome to the new commenters!

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  17. Loved this question!

    I didn't vote yet, but I will as soon as I am finished writing this, and here's my response why!

    With writing my fanfiction "40 Days" I honestly have always had the feeling that Han felt it first. It wasn't by much, but I do think he understood that he loved her, and soon after, she loved him. He accepted that fact, while Leia tried to deny it, until the fateful flight to Bespin and Carbon Freezing.

    Here's the more in depth explanation...Han kind of had this yes/no thing going on, which would explain him at the beginning of Empire. It's almost like he knows already that he loves her and she loves him, but that it's never going to happen because she continues to deny it, so he's pushing it off and going to face Jabba. Just as Leia is ignoring her love for him, he is ignoring his love for her, or trying to. Then the battle happens and something on that flight makes him realize once and for all that he truly does love her, and he's determined to make her realize the same thing. I really feel like Leia might begin to think that she loves him during the trip to Bespin, but the "moment" that she knows (LOL), isn't until the "I Love You/I Know" moment. And just to throw it in there, thinking about this, I could almost see Han's "I Know" as him admitting his love for her, because he has really known the whole time, he was just waiting for her to find the same feeling. If that made any sense...LOL. Good thing I'll have a whole story after "40 Days" to determine my real feelings...or writing feelings? LOL

    Anyway, that's my thoughts on that. =) Now I really want to get started on my next story! Too bad I have like 15 chapters left before then!

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  18. I agree you guys that Han fell in love first. I'd like to add there that Leia probably was very much a challenge for him and we all know that he's a gambler. ;) Leia's reactions toward him were also probably very different from what he had used to, I mean, the cocky guy like him knows his HOT. ;)

    I think Leia thought Han is hot and stuff, but she had so much problems with Alderaan and Death Star and stuff... And IF she got raped there, she probably didn't even want to love anyone, and a masculin guy like Han was scary. Raped or not, the torturers where mostly men because some EU book revealed that Palpatine was a racist and trusted only human males and it was very difficult for other species and females to have ranks.

    I think she probably had used to men very different from Han. Actually, in some FF Leia comments Han that men don't look at her like that. Han explains that's because there are only 3 types of men in her life: those old enough to be her father (and probably even knew the guy), those like Luke who acted like puppies near her, and then there was HAN. ;) And Han didn't respect her just for being a princess. I think Leia didn't want to be treated like a princess.

    I know she was in love with him from the beginning of ESB, you know, running after him and stuff... But I have know idea, when she knew about it. I guess she admitted it on THE KISS in Millennium Falcon. ;) Maybe she was in love with him even before ESB. It's interesting when she says Luke "I wonder if he really cares about anything... or anybody." I think she was wondering herself is that nerfherder even able to feel anything for HER. I agree that in ESB when Han is leaving the rebellion, Leia is not hurt just because Han is a natural leader and the rebellion needs him. ;)

    "Curious if there are any thoughts on if Han would have turned her into just another notch on the bedpost if he could have?" Maybe this moment was one?

    Luke: So, what do you think of her, Han?
    Han Solo: I'm tryin' not to, kid.
    Luke: Good.
    Han Solo: Still, she's got a lot of spirit. I don't know, whaddya think? You think a princess and a guy like me...
    Luke: No.

    Well, we don't need to talk about when did Luke fall for her? xD That was right when he saw the message by R2! :DDD But maybe a discussion if Leia never loved Luke? It may be Off Topic on this blog. But she certainly was trying to make Han jealous kissing Luke in the med center in ESB.

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