Saturday, December 31, 2016

Happy 2017

2016 was an incredibly challenging year for Star Wars fans, and Han and Leia fans especially. It began with us reeling from the death of Han Solo and the knowledge that for some reason it was decided that Han and Leia would have one child that became the root of all evil and aside from simply becoming a murderous, Dark-Side monster, also supplied his parents with enough emotional turmoil that they were no longer together. Our excitement about seeing Han and Leia on screen again was shattered by the content of said scenes and our hearts sank at the lack of opportunity, and then they shattered when Han was murdered in cold blood by his only child. Leia is left alone with nobody left in her family really, except Luke who is in hiding.

And then it ended with the unexpected and absolutely crushing news that Carrie Fisher had suffered cardiac arrest and then passed away a few days later. I, and I'm sure many of you, spent Christmas trying to subtly check for updates amidst the festivities. And then our worst fears came true, and she was gone. Really, I'm not sure how things could've been worse if you're a Star Wars/Han and Leia fan. Personally I shed a lot of tears over both of these events. It was like the horrible bookends that helped to tear another piece of my childhood away.

But, amidst it all, we do have each other. Whenever you wonder to yourself why you are so wrapped up in these fictional characters and their love story, or about an actress/writer who you likely never even met, you can come here and see that there are many of us who feel the same way. There are many of us who spent days checking for updates on Carrie's health, cried when we heard the news, and were utterly useless at work because it was too hard to concentrate.

We spent hours and days and weeks wondering why they would bring back our favorite characters only to utterly destroy them. We were watching all sorts of interviews trying to get some valid answers only to find out there weren't any. We had to accept that this was the end of what we had been looking forward to, and if we were lucky we could convince ourselves that the REAL Star Wars ended with Return of the Jedi, and that their lives afterward were so mundane and happy that they just weren't worthy of a movie.

And again, we had each other to talk about this with. To know that there were others who felt the exact same way, and reacted to it all on such a deep and personal level. Yes, it is probably silly to get so emotionally invested in something entirely fictional, but it's also comforting to learn that there are so many others who feel the same way, and we have someone to share it with.

Also, of course, we have everyone who is willing to write new stories for them. Happy stories that show the life we all know they really would've had together. Stories not involving death or Sith children or Luke running away. Stories that bring brightness and happiness rather than despair and hopelessness. Yes, perhaps it is only a small consolation in an otherwise gut-wrenching year. But it's something, and I'm grateful for it.

So thank you to all the readers who stick around and comment, and to all the writers who continue to give Han and Leia the life together they deserve. And to everyone who makes us feel a little less alone in our obsession.

151 comments:

  1. I have a half hour of 2016 left and I'm trying to stay awake, but do want to be around when it goes away.
    Well done post. Thanks for having us. I'll be writing and reading, because it's all we've got, since I'm not playing along with that moving picture fanfic.
    Happy New Year to everyone.

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  2. Happy new year!! Wishing everyone a much better year than this last one. Everyone is a twitter right now as Mariah Carey had massive sound issues tonight. Perfect cap to 2016. Yikes. But here's hoping to a ton of new, brilliant, non-TFA fic. :) Cheers!

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  3. Thanks, Zyra, and Happy New Year to you, and to everyone here.

    I'm fortunate to have a loving and supportive family who don't tease me when they see me crying my heart out over a celebrity I've never met or, as was the case this time last year, over a fictional character(!). But that doesn't mean they're not all still a little mystified as to why I have been so deeply affected by such things. Hell, I can't really articulate the reasons very well myself. I just know that the loss of Han Solo in official canon broke my heart, and the loss of Carrie Fisher in real life has absolutely gutted me. I'm just very grateful that I'm not alone in those sentiments and that you're all still hanging out here, writing and reading the sort of fanfiction that always transports me to the "happy place", where I've taken sanctuary for nearly 40 years.

    Here's hoping 2017 will bring us better things, both in life and in a galaxy far, far away.

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  4. Last edited, on New Year's Day I started writing what is by far the best Han/Leia fanfiction I've ever written and probably the only decent and completed one as well. Today, I'm planning another one. A new year, a new story. That's my plan. 2016 is behind us and that is a cause worth celebrating. To healing fanfiction!

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  5. Well, I prefer to think of 2016 as the year I came to my senses and returned to Han/Leia and writing after far too long. So as awful as this year has been, I'm personally happy about that little bit. :) This blog was part of that process, so thank you Zyra!

    Cheers to the authors who made this year a fantastic, beautiful one. Truly, the fic that came out this year from the people on this blog was tremendous. So I'm happy to see 2016 go and happier still to read and write in 2017!

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  6. Yes. thank you authors. you have made this all tolerable and sometimes fun.

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  7. Echoing everyone's comments above. Like KnightedRogue, I have to thank 2016 and the wonderful craziness of Tumblr and my anger with TFA for getting me back into Star Wars fandom and especially back into SW fic writing after far far too long away. It's been a fun ride.

    Like Erin, it's hard to explain to people how the loss of a fictional character hits so hard, especially how the destruction of the universe around him makes it worse, when everyone's so excited about the new films. And then to have the end of the year come and lose Carrie in reality ...

    Thank you Zyra for this lovely blog I discovered late this year (thanks KnightedRogue for leading me here!). Thank you all for the welcome you've given a multishipper!

    Let's hope for a happier 2017. Long may we have lovely AUs where Luke, Han and Leia are together like they are above on Endor. With peace and happiness.

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  8. Yes, in some ways it was great to see a lot of people get brought back into the fandom, so it was not a total loss.

    Thanks, everyone. This place would be nothing without comments and contributions so it helps!

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  9. Happy new year! Wishing everyone a better year! Although my mother language is not English, I can not write, but I will be huge fan for reading your wonderful stories :))) thanks to everyone!

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  10. can't believe that at this time last yr I was upset at something as trivial as han solo dying...now I'd give anything to go back to that time.

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  11. I've found this blog to be a tremendous source of light in a really dark year for Han/Leia fans. The loss of Carrie Fisher at much too young an age is truly unbearably sad, and I'm not sure I have my head fully wrapped around it still (as I saw Rogue One yesterday, was bored silly for 2 hours, then welled up at CGI Leia), but thanks to Zyra and everyone around here for giving us all a virtual community in which to come together to acknowledge our sadness without any judgment.

    I know I like to play the role of Captain Outraged McStompyfoot about Disney Star Wars around here, and that's partly because it's easier to be comically outraged than to say, "wow, that felt like a massive betrayal that hurt on a level deeper than I thought possible for a fictional story" (which is really the truth, for me at least, as it betrayed not only Lucas and his characters but in a sense my childhood) so thank you all for putting up with Stompyfoot and thank you all for being willing to call out betrayals for what they are.

    And here's to a better 2017 for all, and here's to much great fan fic to preserve the integrity of the Lucas vision.

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    1. I'm covering your six, Captain! Because you summed up my exact feelings.... ::g::

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  12. Happy 2017! Please bare with me, for I. Write. Bad. But I love to read! I'm so appreciative for this blog and for you wonderful fan fic writers. For now I don't feel so alone in my stalkering of OT Han & Leia and I have a happy place to turn for like minded fans. Thank you Zyra for this blog and thank you authors, for your hard work and time for it does make a difference. And thank you commenters and anonymous lurkers, you helped me in my denying and rejecting of Disney's TFA. Long live the OT!

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  13. In case people are interested. Petition to make Leia a Disney princess - https://www.google.com/amp/www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/carrie-fisher-star-wars-princess-leia-disney-petition-official-a7509351.html%3Famp

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  14. Hey, guys? I'm writing an article on basically why the new SW canon is so awful. I was hoping to have something about how Han and Leia's relationship was destroyed and I was wondering if anyone knows where to find something Jar Jar Abrams said about why he did that to Han and Leia. Help, anyone?

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    1. Wasn't part of it in the DVD commentary? I don't know anymore, maybe go back and check the comments from when the movie came out or when the DVD came out. I heard them once and then didn't care to look again.

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    2. I read bits and pieces of interviews last year, in an effort to wrap my head around it (when I was in the phase of trying to force myself to accept it). Everything he said made me sick. And he was so ******* earnest and excited about it. Ugh. Sorry, Jaina. I'm pretty sure I didn't bookmark any of those interviews.

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    3. Although I just saw I guess I never did a post for the DVD release. Shows how excited I was for it!

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    4. http://bgr.com/2015/12/22/star-wars-force-awakens-kylo-ren/

      I can't even make myself read all of this but, skimming over it, I think one of the reasons he listed was his desire to make a villain that was even MORE evil than Darth Vader. And how do you do that? Create a villain who kills his own parent. But we need to *care* about the parent that gets murdered, so that means either Luke, Leia or Han.

      And, of course, if a child goes that bad wrong, it will have an impact on the parents and (in this cyncial age) that means d-i-v-o-r-c-e.

      GAHHHHHHHHH CAN'T STAND IT.

      So, basically, JJ wanted to "top" Darth Vader and he destroyed our heroes to do it.

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    5. Thanks, guys. I appreciate it. Sorry for the being the evil one and bringing this topic back. I don't want to talk about it either, but I just needed that. Thanks!

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    6. "So, basically, JJ wanted to "top" Darth Vader and he destroyed our heroes to do it."

      - While at the same time he managed to utterly fail in topping Darth Vader.

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    7. Jaina, when you have it written, will you tell us where we can read it? I'm very interested ::g::

      And Kels, yes, exactly!

      Also Erin, yes, exactly. I had taped the 60 Minutes thing to watch when TFA came out. I unfortunately didn't see it before I went to the movie. I couldn't watch it afterwards. I just have this irrational dislike of Abrams - I couldn't believe it, but there was some charity thing and he was at the table with Spielberg and Ford, no surprise, and LUCAS. It takes a real amount of gall to be able to do that...

      Of course, he takes the quick and easy path to set up his Dark Side child...

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    8. It's an article for my school's paper, so it'll be kind of short. And lack that nothing-held-back sort of honesty we all love around here. It will be a lot kinder, unfortunately.

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    9. Still want to read ::g::

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    10. Okay! How or what would you prefer I post it on?

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    11. If it's just me, I can send you an email addy or if you're on Tumblr, you can hit me up that way?

      I'm not sure if I'm the only one or not...

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  15. A bit late... But um... (let's just forget last year...Except for rogue one and princess diarist) Happy New Year!
    I discover this lovely corner of fandom early last year. It has been fantastic fuel for my 30+ year obsession that had lapsed because of the horror of the prequels and the gradual disintegration of the old canon.
    This site has been a fab resource, with its longevity, its links to stuff like fanfic stories for published SW authors, gossip, and most importantly the users/contributors.

    Thanks Zyra & Push
    And thanks to the rest of you, I felt so strange and lonely in my corner of the world until I came to this (therapy) group. It's nice to conspire with other crazies. ;)

    *hugs*

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  16. Belated happy new year greetings to everyone!

    Just butting in to say a quick big thank you to all the fanfic writers who are still out there for sharing in their talents and continuing to write for Han and Leia even 40 years after the darned movie. Not only do you all provide a good distraction for the recent events, but also you give an assurance that Han and Leia's love story will live on. Special thanks to Zyra and Push for this wonderful blog which will always be a safe little coze haven for H/L shippers.

    May your 2017 be better and happier than the last and may the force be with all of us :)

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  18. Happy Belated New Years! Good riddance 2016!
    I have something I was planning on sharing with you guys a little later down the line. However it might be a nice break from all the sadness that 2016 left us with. I've been working on a crazy theory in which Han is not dead. The trouble is that it is really hopeful, but with Carrie's passing, I don't know how things will change. It would still mean good things for Ep 8, but it's also a crazy theory, that might be more interesting than the ST itself. If that's the case, I'm probably going to make it into a fanfic if I'm wrong. Would a meta heavy theory be something you guys are interested in? And if so how would I share that with you guys?

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    1. Oh, I know. What if they DID bring Han back but now Leia is gone?!?!

      If you wanted to share it here I would put it as a guest post.

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    2. I would be delighted to hear your crazy theory about how Han might have survived. I know we can't hope for anything like that in nu-canon or on film, but we can certainly create it and enjoy it in fic! I will read the hell out of any story that brings him back to Leia and erases all of that crap about him being a terrible husband and father. #neverhappened

      I'm looking forward to your post.

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    3. If we're being wild, some other posters and I on Tumblr (waves at Novahawk - I owe you a post!) have also been discussing this. Our bet is that the meeting of the "brain trust" (quotes intentional) of Lucasfilm meeting to decide what to do about 9 is going to be interesting...if they didn't already bring Han back for 8...

      I can't even imagine how sad 9 is going to be, with Luke alone...right, he has the kids but Han and Leia gone?

      And no, that crap in TFA? Never happened. I don't care how you ship the OT 3 or even not.

      Erin, you wrote the premiere theory! ::g:: I have a SkySolo pal who wrote that Luke just brought Han to him and healed him because, well, FFS, what's the point of being the Jedi Master if you can't make things happen? They've already so abused "how the Force works," what's one more thing?

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    4. Thanks! :D I like my theory, too, but I would also be 100% down with Luke being a bad-ass Jedi MASTER who just swoops in and saves Han's life --- because (a) that would rock and (b) it would totally be in-character for him to drop everything and fly to Han's side if he was in deep doo-doo, no matter what had happened between them to make them estranged. I'd love to see Luke being serene and powerful, not wracked with doubts and grief. *sigh*

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    5. Yes! Yes absolutely! I can't see Luke brooding on his damn island and letting him die!! ARGH! And Mark said he thought Luke's entrance would be to pick up the saber from the snow. And I swear, if that had happened, I'd've walked out, unless Han was leaning on his shoulder. I mean, c'mon, leave Han to die if he's right there???

      I'd love to see him swoop in and save Han - and throw it in Kylo's face, frankly. It would be EPIC.

      You've all seen "How It Should Have Ended" right?

      https://youtu.be/JbpgM-JTang

      (If you want the best part, go to about 2:55)

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    6. Thanks! I love how the OT fans are all banded together to embrace our different alternatives to the ST.
      I don't know how to 'blogspot' very well, so I don't know how to send it to you? I was also wondering about the length of posts? In total the original theory is 12 pages in word. I'm currently working on breaking it down into character based posts for tumblr, but some of the characters have nothing to do with Han and/or Leia, so I don't know if you'd want to spend an entire post on them?

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    7. Hmmm... yeah that is pretty long for a blog post. Not that we couldn't post it, just that it is quite a bit longer than what we normally put up. Maybe we could link from here to where you post on tumblr?

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    8. I'd be happy to break in down into parts, and/or summarizes sections that aren't as relevant to OT fans. It's becoming a series, but the is the first and primary post is HERE

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    9. Thanks, I'll take a look. I do admire your optimism in saying "the sequel trilogy is not a tragedy!" I am not that confident only because I think the people in charge have proven themselves to be idiots.

      Also, I didn't even know you guys could post links in comments. Cool.

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  19. A very, VERY belated Happy New Year to all.

    I am so happy to have found this little refuge with all of you fantastic, creative and talented like-minded people. I always thought I was a little off the wall in my love of the GFFA, and have never been so happy to find out I was wrong! I'd rather erase 2016 altogether for a lot of reasons, except for finding this haven of a spot and the pleasure of getting back to writing again—and publishing for the first time in my life! It's just what I needed, and just when I needed it.

    Unfortunately 2017 is not starting out very good for me with family health problems, but it's a great comfort to know that this community (and the great fanfic you create!) is here to escape to whenever I need a lift. Thanks to you all for that.

    Cheers!

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  20. I hope it's okay to post this. I read that Carrie was cremated and Debbie wasn't, yet Carrie was buried in a coffin. Doesn't this sound odd to anyone? I have a theory.

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    1. Why would that not be ok? And where did you read Carrie was in a coffin? I thought they put some of Carrie's ashes in with Debbie, and then they can set aside ashes for family as requested, and then often will bury some in a cemetery.

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  21. I thought that it was odd for someone to be cremated, yet they put her in a coffin? That's strange to me...I mean, why bother?

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    1. Well, did they actually mention or show a coffin? What was the context of what you read? "News" stories say stuff ALL THE TIME and make assumptions when they don't know what they're talking about. There are still articles going around about how Gary is so sad about Carrie dying, which I'm sure is true, but they have a picture of a random dog that isn't him. Many news sites are still saying "massive heart attack" even though we really still don't know what it was that caused her heart to stop. So before we go actually wondering what happened, I'd like to know where you read/heard it and how reliable it might be.

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    2. Well their are two classifications of heart attacks, minor and massive, a massive (also called major) heart attack affects +60% of the heart muscle and is very difficult to recover from. My grandfather died of a massive heart attack when my mother was 12, it runs in my family.

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  22. Oh, okay. There was one article that clarified this. Some of Carrie's ashes were buried in Debbie's coffin. It's just my opinion/observation that I still find that she was cremated weird. Not that cremation is weird, but I don't know...

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    1. You find that Carrie chose to be cremated weird? I've considered for myself which I'd want, neither seems appealing. (I feel the same way about childbirth, but luckily that probably won't matter) I think I'd feel less weird about my body just rotting in the ground.

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    2. You mean did she choose to be cremated? I don't know. It's possible she had mentioned what she wanted but also possible she didn't. My father died relatively young and hadn't specified either way and we had to choose for him, which definitely felt odd. But, well, you have to pick something.

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    3. Yes, she did choose to be cremated. In a couple of the many articles I've read this week it did state that it was Carrie's wish to be cremated, but Debbie had always wanted to be buried. So that's what Carrie wanted, and her family made sure she got her wish.

      Incidentally here in the U.K., burials are extremely rare now. Pretty much everyone gets cremated.

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    4. I was just about to say the same thing; as an American expat living in the UK, I found the prevalence of cremations as a choice to be quite surprising, at least when I first moved over here. I found the whole notion quite...distasteful, somehow.

      But I've been here a while and I've changed my mind, not least of all because I'd like to have my remains poured into the North Atlantic. I reckon anyone wishing to visit my "grave" could just go to the beach and look at the waves. ;)

      It would be even more fitting if one of my loved ones could contrive to get to the edge of the Cliffs of Moher in County Clare, Ireland. I like the idea of being thrown from the Cliffs of Insanity (of "Princess Bride" fame), taken by the winds and scattered on the sea.

      I read that Carrie had just bought a house in London and planned to spend more time there. I don't often visit London but I think if she'd lived there, I would've been tempted to roam around Chelsea trying to bump into her.

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  23. Sorry I'm so late posting this...Happy New Year to you all! Yes it's been a very emotional year for us Han and Leia fans. Now we are in a very odd situation where Han is dead, but Harrison lives. And Leia lives but poor Carrie doesn't :( What a gut punch her death was. I felt like I was hit by a truck. Still don't think I've fully processed it. So very sad. Hopefully things will get easier. But talk about starting the year on a real downer.

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  24. Happy New Year everyone! It's been a rough year for Han/Leia fans. At least one good thing that came out of 2016 is that a lot of old fans and writers who had been in hiding or involved in other fandoms came back into the woodwork. We got a lot of new wonderful fics to enjoy!

    Did anyone get the chance to watch Bright Lights? I don't have HBO but I've heard on tumblr it's available online.

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    1. I found it to be a tough watch, but not for the reasons I thought it would be. Definitely worth seeing, though.

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    2. Not yet. I won't have a chance to watch until later this week at the earliest, but looking forward to it.

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  25. Anyone have tickets to celebration? I can't decide whether to still go or not...

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  26. Hey, cv73! My article is finished and ready for viewing. How would you like me to share it with you, again?

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    1. Oh, wonderful! Are you on Tumblr? Or Twitter?

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    2. I have a Tumblr, but I never use it,s o I don't really know how to use it. I don't have a Twitter.

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    3. okay...i'm on gmail....the c is culture the v is vulture and there are no spaces...that should hold off the email harvesters ;-)

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    4. Sorry for that inconvenience. I'll send it to your gmail right now, then.

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    5. Wait, is the number part of your gmail, too?

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    6. Yes ::g:: one long string...

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    7. Whoops! Well, come random person just received a random email from me. Got it fixed, though.

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    8. Got it! Will read this weekend ::g:: Thanks!!

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    9. Late to answer this question but here are some quotes from JJ on why Han and Leia would have failed as a couple:

      http://www.usatoday.com/wlna/life/movies/2015/12/13/jj-abrams-star-wars-the-force-awakens/76911016/
      https://makingstarwars.net/2016/03/secrets-of-the-force-awakens-a-cinematic-journey-breakdown/

      There's also a quote from him somewhere about how Han would have been a poor husband and father. I can find it if you'd like.

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  27. Thanks, I appreciate that. I am still interested in seeing exactly what he said.

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    1. Found it - hope it's not too late for your article!

      "Han is a scoundrel, a cheat, a braggart...He can't hold down a steady job and he can't stay out of debt...He's a cool guy and a reluctant hero. Those guys don't generally make good husbands or fathers.

      The first time we meet Han Solo, he's in a seedy cantina on the run from bounty hunters with a fast ship. To put a guy like that at home with the kids and a white picket fence would be a betrayal of his character. I don't believe that audiences would want to see that. You have to go with your gut. What feels right?"

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    2. How sickening to think that so much of our heartache over Eps 7-9 stems from this one man's concept of who Han Solo is as a character; a concept which apparently remained stubbornly unchanged despite the very evident development of said character ON SCREEN through Eps 4-6, starting when he turned his ship around and clipped those TIE fighters off Luke's tail, then stuck around to have his acts publicly acknowledged... No, actually, I like to think it really started when Leia called him a "mercenary" -- look at his face after she leaves the cockpit and you can see that her shot hit a soft spot. Luke struck another blow ("Take care of yourself, Han. I guess that's what you're best at, isn't it").

      So even if Jar-Jar never even watched ESB or RotJ, he should have had some glimmer of understanding that Han Solo was never meant to be a shitty, shifty, no-good cheat FOREVER. Where's the story in that? Grrr.

      Can't believe I waited 30+ years for the follow-up to RotJ and got *this*. Waahhhhhhhh..... Thank the Maker for fanfiction, and writers who have a far better grasp of these characters (and minds creative enough to imagine them, idk, *developing and changing over time*).

      Am I ranting again? I'm ranting again. Sorry, sorry.

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    3. I'm with Erin on this! Also someone gave me an "ask" on Tumblr about what I thought about Han as a poor husband and father, and Ewokkey, I'm going to borrow your quote of JJ, if you don't mind. Because I'm working up to an epic rant in my mind, after a week of them... I'll post the link once I get it posted.

      Don't know if my fellow Tumblr pals saw but Corellian Smuggler and myself both were involved in threads about why we thought the OT3 got the shaft in the new movies, and then had to respond to the familiar "but it's real/you don't want conflict" responses. If folks want, I'll post the link. Corellian Smuggler did an EPIC smackdown.

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    4. Go ahead, it's not my quote! From how JJ is talks about Han and Leia I feel like he's only ever seen ANH. Like that interview I linked above about how Leia would always put duty above her loved ones - isn't that her whole storyline in ROTJ that she puts Han above the cause? And that Han wouldn't be able to settle down - isn't that what his ENTIRE STORY ARC is about? JJ must have completely erased ROTJ from his mind after he watched it.

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    5. From what others have said, JJ only cares about SW and Empire, not Jedi or the prequels. Which as Erin noted above, he missed even the end of SW. Hell, he missed Han trying to save Luke and Leia in the damn trash compactor!

      If our headcanons and the real canon include the idea that these three characters changed and grew, JJ was bound and determined to say no. Someone did note that he didn't agree with what RIan Johnson did and Bloodline is set to match what Rian did. So maybe some measure of "fix" will be there.

      I'll post the rant link when I get it done...

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    6. JJ said already he doesn't agree with what Rian did? This whole thing is a ridiculous mess.

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    7. Someone posted on Tumblr something like that - due to the endless arguing of ReySky vs Rey anything else. So who knows?

      I do agree the whole thing is a ridiculous mess!

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    8. Don't you just love how JJ thinks he's Lucas now, and that what he says goes? Why does he think he's the big authority on SW just because he made ONE movie? Shame he didn't actually watch all of the OT before making that one. And if Rian has done something that pissed JJ off then good for him, I hope it's something major that tramples all over JJ's twisted view of our beloved characters. It's about time JJ was brought down a peg or two.

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    9. Yeah, I mean, I of course think it's idiotic to have this new trilogy without planning the whole thing and just letting different writers/directors take over. But if that is what they have chosen to do, then exactly, shut your stupid mouth, JJ. I don't really care what his opinion is on anything, but it's really crappy of him to be saying that he doesn't agree with what the other guys are doing with the story. It's not YOUR story to tell. You had your chance, and you single-handedly ruined our most beloved characters (except maybe Chewbacca? He seemed to be ok) and now you just have to let the others do their things and keep your mouth shut about it.

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    10. Do you have a link to JJ criticizing Rian? I'd be curious to read it since he's still executive producer of Episode VIII (barf).

      Don't think JJ and Pablo get along either, Pablo Hidalgo's been quite vocal that Kylo did not turn Dark because Han and Leia were bad parents while JJ's said just the opposite. Unfortunately, the mainstream media only seemed to report on JJ's words and came out with a million articles about how Han and Leia sucked as parents.

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    11. I would love to know the real machinations behind the scenes. I wish I had a link - I saw someone say it in passing about the ReySky theory so I wonder exactly what JJ objected to. Bloodline reset so much and it's based on what happens in 8, allegedly, or at least to better set it up.

      I really can't take Pablo but I have been heartened to see that he has said Kylo didn't turn because of Han and Leia.

      But there's still one big problem - Han's still dead...and now...I don't even want to think. It's still all too sad.

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    12. Executive Producer is often only a courtesy title that someone negotiated themselves when they're not actively involved in a project - it may very well just mean he gets billing credit and compensation. So I wouldn't read too much into Exec Producer credit on VIII and IX for JJ. Could really mean almost anything as it's a catch-all title.

      Pablo snark bugs me too, but I did like his comments that the fault for Kylo turning is with Kylo. Also, thought Adam Driver's comments this week, when they asked him if he survived Ep VIII were interesting. He said something like "depends on how you define living." If he ends up encased in a Vader suit by IX I'm going to laugh. As someone said about Rogue One, what this is all proving is that there isn't really much more to say about Star Wars - that as they have positioned it, SW was only workable as a 3 film trilogy and everything else is extraneous and, pardon the pun, forced.

      Delete
    13. If they seriously put him in a Vader type suit or something similar...

      What in the hell was the point of the whole new trilogy? And burning the EU? To do the same thing ONE MORE TIME? It's crazy.

      But a sick part of me hopes this is exactly what happens so all those people screaming "oh history repeats" will get a taste of it right back. I hope Rey is the reincarnation of Anakin and Kylo gets his fondest wish and becomes Vader. I will actually go to a theater and laugh my fool head off.

      Also, I will learn to GIF and I will GIF whatever bad happens to Kylo and post it HOURLY to make up for seeing Han's death GIFed over and over and over again.

      Delete
  28. There will be no CGI Leia in Episode IX. http://comicbook.com/starwars/2017/01/14/lucasfilm-statement-we-will-not-digitally-recreate-carrie-fisher/

    I know it wouldn't have been the same, but I hate the idea that we were going to get more Leia, and now we're not. I know there is no suitable solution, but CGI maybe could've been sort of acceptable given all other options? It just seems so finite. And now I do wonder if they're going to kill her off in VIII, or kill her off screen in IX, or what, exactly. I think this is going to ruin what was already not a very good story.

    Somewhat related, it seems interesting to me that there are things they are confirming about Episode VIII, like scenes Leia shares with what characters. But also that I haven't really heard or seen any rumors about what is going to be happening in this movie. It's just strange to me that they made SUCH a big deal about keeping everything secret for VII, and yet everyone knew basically everything probably this far in advance of that one. And now we don't really know anything, and yet at the same time, they are telling us things.

    And reading that just makes me feel extra sad, because it's like, for sure now, Leia is really dead :(

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    1. It doesn't necessarily means she's dead - they could save some of her scenes meant for Episode VIII and put them in Episode IX. The rumour was that she was barely in Episode VIII as the First Order tried to assassinate her and she's in a coma for most of the movie. They could have the scenes of her going into the coma in Episode XIII and then her waking up from it in Episode IX. Or yeah, they could kill her off off-screen or say she never wakes up from her coma, which would seem to be a huge disservice to her character.

      I wonder how they planned to wrap up the Kylo/Leia storyline because if they were planning on having them reunite at some point obviously they can't do that any more (but I'm not sure they ever planned that to begin with, given the complete lack of attention given to the mother/son relationship). Their relationship got no attention in TFA even though Leia was aligned with the organization trying to kill her son. I'm assuming after he gets redeemed in Episode IX he was going to go back to the Resistance, so now we're probably just going to read something lame like in a book he encounters the Force Ghost of his mom who forgives him or something dumb like that.

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    2. I fully expect her to be dead. I felt the same, that the Leia/Kylo relationship would be ignored because they completely ignored it in Episode 7, but the more talk I hear of this the more I think they were actually going to do something there. And also the more time that passes, the more I am completely convinced that the main story arc of this trilogy is Kylo's redemption. Of course that sucks as a story arc, but I'm still fairly well convinced that is their intention. And I really don't know how you bring that around without ONE of his parents being there.

      I guess we can all agree that whatever they do, it will probably suck. And I guess it probably would've sucked anyway.

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    3. Yeah, I doubt even if Carrie had not passed away they would have wrapped it up satisfactorily. They completely ignored the mother/son relationship in TFA, why would it be any different in the next two movies? And keeping in line with how the OT went, I bet the "old crew" (Luke and Leia) were not going to play any kind of significant role in his redemption either, just like how Obi-Wan and Yoda played no role in Vader being redeemed. Rey will be the one to redeem him. Which will again make the original trilogy look like complete failures that they were unable to reach their own son/nephew but some random girl who met him for 5 minutes can, but them being failures was pretty much the theme of TFA so...

      I wonder if it was originally Luke who was supposed to die though, and now they'll keep him alive because Leia's dead. It will also be super sad if they kill her by just having her remain in the coma in the scene they filmed already, because it'll be way too close to what happened in real life.

      Delete
    4. I mean I think they probably planned a reunion scene where Kylo comes home after being redeemed by Rey and he and Leia hug that we won't see now. But I really doubt that they have had Leia playing any kind of role in redeeming him, nor do I expect they were ever going to address the whole thing of Leia leading the army that was trying to destroy the First Order, or Kylo leading the army that was trying to kill his mom's organization.

      Delete
    5. A deluded part of me felt like they would've realized based on fan reactions that Leia's relationship with her son was completely overlooked. But what have I been saying about expecting to be disappointed in every possible way? So, yes, let's go back to that.

      I guess one thing I'm not worried about is them taking her out of 8 and saying she already died. I mean, it is a very big deal that they have her last performance just sitting there, ready to go. I don't think they will take that away.

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    6. And if the redemption ended with Leia hugging that piece of slime without simultaneously strangling him/sticking a saber in him, I would have been/would be done - if I wasn't already.

      Because then what did Han mean to any of them? Of course, based on JJ's description, I guess he's just gutter trash that Leia had a fling with and her son with the Force means more -because that's exactly how it's playing out to me if Kylo gets to do all that evil and come waltzing back to the Resistance with no jail time, no nothing. Han's just another casualty of war, right?

      It just hacks me off no end. I honestly hope Luke and Leia are dead if the end game is Kylo comes back to the light and becomes good. Because they've already trashed and ruined everything about the OT3, to have Luke and Leia welcome Han's killer back into the family is to me the final betrayal.

      Delete
    7. And I also think it's telling that Lucasfilm just denied the CGI part. Nothing about recasting....

      Delete
  29. Whatever happens with Leia I just hope they don't recast the role. I would absolutely detest that. Ugh. People on the Jedi Council are already suggesting absolutely crazy people to take over the role, and it just makes me sad. Is Carrie so easily replaceable? If Carrie can't play the role then no one else should either.

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  30. I don't want Kylo redeemed. The deed was too dreadful. Only hope maybe there's a future scene where Force Ghost Han is calling for Leia to join him in the afterlife for their happily ever after. Doubt it, after everything that's happened both in real life and fiction. I don't even think Harrison could be swayed to come back even as a Force Ghost. I know he wasn't a Jedi but was hoping maybe Leia could call him back with her Force powers. Still grieving for our Carrie. The day she died, my Twitter account was 'pulsing' every few seconds with tributes. I'd like to think that was a way of us all keeping her 'figuratively' alive even when her heart stopped beating. Life is precious. Live every minute.

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    1. Yes. I'm endlessly thankful for this haven here and that I know of this place where it's not weird that I'm legitimately mourning Carrie.

      Delete
    2. I don't want him redeemed either. I don't want any of it. But based on the idiotic situation they have given us, it is really the only clear path for what this stupid trilogy could possibly be about.

      I'm glad you guys like it here, and keep showing up and posting! I post for you guys, but also so I have somewhere to talk about it, too.

      Also, I'm not sure if this is universal to all NBC stations, but where I am, they show a rerun SNL episode before the new SNL episode, and tonight they are showing Carrie's episode from back in the 70s for anyone who is interested in watching and maybe it will be airing for you.

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    3. If they were going to kill them off, I wanted something like the end of Jedi, when you see all three of them together in the afterlife. Hopefully, they actually shot something like that, since they were bound and determined to not use Harrison beyond one film (again, Harrison signed for all three, they all did, that's what my Ford fan friends tell me. Abrams - or I'm increasingly believing Disney - decided to kill him off).

      Now, even if they got Harrison and Mark together, putting in CGI Carrie - I think would freak both of them out. It's just horrible - I'm sure none of them ever thought that they'd get to the 40th anniversary with one of them missing - and that it would be the youngest one of them.

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  31. I came across these two short little videos of Billie on youtube today that I found interesting. And also a little sad because obviously this happened sometime in the brief month between Princess Diarist coming out and her mother going into cardiac arrest. The first one is her saying how apparently Carrie was surprised and thought everyone already knew about her and Harrison. I mean, sure, we basically knew, but it still wasn't the same as having it totally confirmed, and it certainly wasn't the same as hearing the details and that it wasn't just some drunken fun but more like her being totally infatuated with him and him mostly not even speaking to her. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APfCxX-4igU

    Second though, and probably more interesting to me, is her talking about working with her mother in the latest movies. The interesting part to me is that she was already saying that this (meaning 8) would potentially be the last time that they would get to work together like that, which means that whatever had happened, they already wouldn't have worked together in Episode 9. I mean that could mean all sorts of things, I just think it's really interesting that she'd already know that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am5_MyYfhWM

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  32. I know it's horrible of me, but I just can't with the new canon. I can't. I can't watch videos, I can't take joy in awesome new characters, I can't even deal with speculating about Rey's parentage. I can't. I was hoping that with time I could maybe pick up Bloodline or Life Debt, maybe start to adjust -but the events of 2016 and this continuous headspin with fans loving Kylo Ren is just too much. The very fact that we have to revere a member of the "team" for saying that Han and Leia didn't cause their son to turn to the Dark Side is frankly ludicrous.

    I'm just gonna sit here in my AU bubble and ignore it all. Without Han and Carrie, I have no energy for anything new. OT, AU and EU fanfic, it is then. Oy vey!

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    1. I'm with you, KR.

      I don't want to know what Pablo and Pals are saying. I really don't give a flying fig for their version of events. Yes, it galls me that it's accepted canon now. Yes, it makes me cringe every time I look up anything to do with Star Wars (e.g. researching while writing my AU stories) and I inevitably bump into Kylo Ren. I can't do anything about that.

      But I can certainly avoid spending too much time on Tumblr (I'm gonna borrow Cicatrick's term and refer to myself as a "Fumblr" from now on). I don't need to read the message boards on the Jedi Council or anywhere else, either. The less I'm exposed to that stuff, the better.

      Frankly, I hang out HERE so I can talk about SW without having to be exposed to that stuff. When posts are made on this blog that delve a bit too deeply (for my tastes) into that stinking morass, I gloss over the notifications and delete them, going la-la-la-can't-hear-you...(sorry!)

      And then I wait for the conversation to swing back around to what I want to hear, which is that Han and Leia lived happily ever after with their amazing children (however many of whatever configuration I like to imagine on any given day) --- --- - NONE of whom ever murdered either one of them.

      The End.

      Oh, wait. There's a post-credits scene:

      Luke was a badass who successfully brought the Jedi back from the brink of utter extinction, was happily married forever to Mara Jade and they had at least one child: a son named Ben Skywalker (I like to keep this bit of the EU). Mara lived to a ripe old age, btw. NOT MURDERED BY HER NEPHEW.

      /end rant

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    2. I try not to reblog any TFA and rage against the new stuff in my corners (KnightedRogue will tell you!). Well, I rage against the treatment of the OT3. The new people? Eh.

      And I write my own little weird world, where a Jedi Knight can go on a dance show and three people who bound themselves to each other with friendship and love don't break apart. (Even if everything that happened in TFA happens to them...Luke comes back to save Han, because that is who he is and what he does.)

      I haven't written them with kids so no chance of having them be murdered by anyone ;-)

      But I'll be happy over in my little corner, where they all live happily ever after. With a bit of snark along the way...

      And that's what I read too.

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    3. I'm also with you, KR. The only reason I care is that I hope Mark gets some work out of this - that's it. Harrison looks like he's winding down his career...and now, exactly as you put it, without Han and Carrie?

      I hope that they do bring Han back, if only so Mark isn't grinding through the press gauntlet alone. It's going to hurt to see all the 40th celebration without all three of them. That is if any happens in the midst of Disney shoving Ep 8 down our throats.

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    4. The thing is, I actually LIKE the new kids! I have no problem whatsoever with Rey, Finn or Poe. I don't even mind Kylo Ren as a villain. He's interesting.

      BUT ONLY IF HE IS NOT RELATED TO HAN AND LEIA!

      Seriously, if everything else in TFA were exactly the same, except Han & Leia were still happily together and the villain wasn't their son, I'd be OVER THE MOON with joy at having Star Wars revived in such spectacular fashion. That one stupid, stupid decision by JJA to make the villain the child of the heroes has just ruined it all.

      Hell, I could even buy Luke as a lonely exile, consigned to guarding a temple for the rest of his days... provided he wasn't guarding it against his own nephew.

      I want to throttle Abrams when I think of it!

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    5. I'll get in line behind you...

      If they had given me Kylo not as their kid, Han and Leia together - and Luke could be looking for the temple but Han and Leia know where he is. I can't see Luke out there alone for the rest of his days. Han and Leia would haul him out of there, even if the galaxy hadn't gone to hell.

      Give me them all 3 onscreen together - one scene!

      Have Han come up the hill behind Rey, bitching about "Stairs, kid, no wonder you haven't come back." Leia can be there or be waiting back with the new base. And they could come back at the start of 8 and it's Yavin all over again, all older and wiser but meeting in a hug that lasts for days. I'd've gone to see that over and over.

      I'd be in line right now for 8. I'd've bought the books and the Blu Ray. I'd have gone bouncing down the road to Orlando for Celebration and fought for a ticket. I'd be cheerfully watching Mark's presentations at Celebration Europe.

      I might even care about Rey's parents.

      I would be involved in how they're going to handle Leia for 9.

      But when the directors of 8 and 9 are all about how Luke is and how Luke and Leia are and no one gives a damn that Han ended up alone, dead in an abyss by his son's hand, never seeing Luke again, never reconciling with Leia? That all of their lives were ruined for a plot point that DID NOT HAVE TO BE?

      I find it hard to give a damn.

      In fact, it just makes me angry. Fans excited about the son of the daughter vs the daughter of the son. So Luke's child gets to kill or redeem Han & Leia's?

      I can't think of a more nihilistic, miserable finish to that epic friendship and love than their kids having to kill each other, while the three of them were ripped apart.

      I don't want the Skywalker Twins without Han. Who in the hell thought that would be what anyone would want? Break their hearts and kill their pirate so we can have the Edge Lord?

      Over a year later and I'm not any less angry.

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    6. Amen, KR! I think I've gotten most of my rants out, so that's all I can say! I'm equally done with all of this. Let Disney have their AU and I'll play in my little sandbox in the corner. My followers know I've never hung on tighter to the EU. I've got the EU, my AUs, and that's all I need in my fandom life.

      Delete
    7. Yes, this is why I'm not angry anymore and simply roll my eyes when I hear the latest of whatever JJ said, because it's all so, so far off-base it's not even worth thinking about anymore. There is nothing we can do to change what we have been given, but we can ignore it and not worry about it.

      And Erin, I agree about the new kids. I actually think they are great. Casting was superb, they totally found people that I want to get behind from almost the moment I met them (unlike a little movie called Rogue One...) it's really only the awful things that were done to Han, Leia and Luke that I can't forgive. Which is a real shame, because they could've done mostly the exact same things with the new people without doing anything bad to the old ones.

      KR, I'm with you on new canon, totally. And I feel bad because I know there have been quite a few stories out there that use Ben Solo in some capacity that has nothing to do with him being evil, but I just can't do it. I just prefer to think of their family turning out in an entirely different way. I haven't read any of the new books and probably won't. I hardly think I'm alone there, and from someone who bought every EU book with Han and Leia in it for nearly years, that is saying a lot.

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    8. With you, KR and CV (and Jaina...and Erin...and Zyra...and everybody here). The word, as CV reminded us, is nihilistic. They are yapping about hope in their marketing and their screenplays every chance they get, but what they are SHOWING make it clear that their version of Hope is utterly Orwellian. War is Peace. Heroes are falures. We've never been at war with EastAsia...we've always been at War with EastAsia. It is really a disaster right now.

      And for those who say that Han and Leia had to be apart "because CONFLICT" I would ask them if they understand that the only conflict that is necessary is DRAMATIC conflict, and that there was none with Han and Leia in Ep VII. Actually, there was no conflict at all between them in Ep VII. They were presented as two sad and defeated people who had, at some undefined point in the past, HAD a conflict that led to an estrangement that neither one of them seeme to want (so they weren't even in conflict on wanting to be estranged). That's not useful dramatic conflict. For dramatic purposes, it's a past conflict that has already been resolved by the time covered by this film. And then Han goes and does exactly what Leia and her resistance want him to. So where exactly is the dramatic conflict? Not there.

      The only reason we care at all that they're estranged is that we knew them to be together and loved their story. If Ep VII were a totally new story and these were new characters who were presented as an estranged married couple, but then the husband does ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING the wife asked him to in the film, even to the point of death, we would not say that is dramatic conflict at all. We'd say that they're allies with a past conflict that is not at all dramatized.

      Like everything about these new films (I include Rogue One in this), they are relying on what we know and love from the originals to stand in place of the actual hard work of telling a new story but at the same time minimizing the achievements of the OT3 and demeaning those characters, which makes a mockery of the idea of hope. It's starting to seem intentional, in the way that when a new lion takes over a pride, he kills the offspring of the lion he defeated. Or like how Michael Jackson took over the Beatles catalogue and married Elvis's daughter to prove he had taken the crown from McCartney and Elvis. Whichever analogy floats your boat, but I suppose since they haven't yet successfully killed every shred of HOPE in me (because I'm from the Lucas generation), I HOPE it is just incompetence and they're rectifying it.

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    9. And one other thought. I don't know if any of you watch Colony (I do, as I would watch Josh Holloway read the phone book...so sue me). I have doubts about Colony overall, especially because it is brought to us by two of the guys behind Lost, and Lost turned out to be a terrible muddle which had no idea where it was going and then went right to the easiest place in the end (hmmm....JJ....) BUT my point here is:

      They are doing a really, really excellent job of dramatizing a deep conflict between a married couple who have completely different ideas about how to save a lost child but are struggling mightily to keep their marriage together because despite their differing ideas of how to approach their situation, they love each other.

      THAT is dramatic conflict within the context of a couple with a lost child, not what TFA presented us with.

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    10. Preach it, Kels. Before Carrie died, I think I was desperate enough to have forgiven everything they've done so far if only they would "fix it" in Episode 8. I would have just put my blinkers on and pretended anything they liked, if it meant bringing Han back to Leia and reuniting the OT3.

      But that's utterly impossible now (even if it was already highly unlikely before). There's nothing they can do to rectify it. Carrie's gone. No more Leia. The only solution would be CGI and I think with her passing being so recent, they won't go there.

      Delete
    11. Excellent points all around, Kels. Again you have managed to put into words something I'd thought about but not really been able to articulate. Although I do think at some point in our rants over the last year or so we had discussed that they gave us a movie that seemed to happen AFTER the interesting stuff had happened that actually would've made a decent movie, with the conflict you mention. Seeing Kylo turn and Han and Leia deal with it, etc.

      And so true that it is not conflict to have them apart, because they don't actually have any dramatic conflict in the movie. It's cheap "drama" that doesn't even do its job in this case.

      Also for Rogue One relying on the audience knowledge of the other stories and characters, that was just way too much. Again, they never mention Bail Organa by name. I'm not even sure they told us where he was from or what his relationship to the Rebellion was. I don't think that anyone would've known that the person he could trust was the one at the very end of the film. I still think that was a wasted opportunity not to see Leia's last time seeing her father. I mean even just a brief hug or something would've given us more to be like, oh, yeah, that must be her father or whatever. I get it, I know most of us know these movies more than well enough to fill in all those blanks, but if you're going to do a supposed "stand-alone" movie you damn well better do a decent job of having it, well, stand alone.

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    13. Whoops, sorry, real name invasion. Re-posting.

      I agree that now the only way they can rectify it is by "Telling" and not "Showing" so it will be dramatically bad, but the whole "Han and Leia have a conflict" thing is telling and not showing, as are a few other aspects of both R1 and TFA, so I already know they're not opposed to bad storytelling in order to make their point. I just want them now to make a different point in their telling. It will still suck, IMHO - the ST is as irredeemable to me as Kylo at this point -- but I would give them points for trying to fix it.

      I'm also not convinced there will be no more Leia; there may be no more Leia that the older generations will buy into, but my gut says they recast. I'm with CV that there is a reason they said no to CGI but did not mention recasting. And while I don't like recasting, although this goes against my initial feelings after Carrie died, if they are going to try to fix the nihilistic view of the world they've so far presented due to the treatment of the OT3, I'd live with the recast. I'd really prefer that future generations of kids -- those yet to be old enough to see SW and even those yet to be born, because these films will outlive us all -- are not fed something that is as ultimately dark and hopeless as the ST currently is. And if to fix that they need a re-cast Leia, I'll live with it.

      If they have no intention of fixing it...let Leia die. Let them all die. Kill it all with fire.

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    14. Rey as Luke's daughter killing Kylo is actually the MOST optimistic of the rumours I've heard sadly. It's looking more like Rey is a random and that she redeems Kylo which of course is the ultimate F U to the Skywalker/Solo - his loving mother couldn't reach him, his dad was killed when he tried to reach him, his uncle couldn't reach him but some random girl he met for 5 minutes redeems him because he thinks she's pretty? It's just such an insult and it also makes the Skywalkers out to be the biggest screw ups in the Galaxy.

      I should add the caveat that the spoilers are not as reliable as the ones we got for TFA where the call sheets leaked but the current rumour is that Luke encourages Rey to kill Kylo but Rey refuses as they developed some kind of Force bond when they were in each other's heads in TFA and now she has compassion for him. Supposedly her and Kylo have a conversation in a hut that Luke does not like and Luke blows up the hut in anger. Seems like they're keen on destroying Luke's character too.,.

      One thing I'll never forgive JJ for is ruining Han and Leia for the younger generation of SW fans who were introduced to SW through TFA. They should have seen Han and Leia as wizened old heroes like Qui-Gon, instead they view them as Cindarella's abusive stepmother.

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    15. If Luke blows up a hut in anger after being a Jedi Knight for 30 years, I am going to bust a gut laughing in the theatre.

      Oh, wait, I won't be seeing it. So I will bust a gut laughing on the internet...because it is so Harry-Potter-the-magic-student-blowing-up-Aunt-Marge. And if that follows up on Kylo's I-hate-dad-the-Muggle, I think they need to start paying JK Rowling some royalties.

      Anyway, that Luke thing is just idiotic and presents Luke, as you noted, as no longer a Jedi worthy of admiration. Glad at least that we'll get a bunch of PO'ed Luke fans joining even more in our dislike after Ep VIII

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    16. Listen, most of the Luke fans I know will be livid. Many of them are just holding on because of TFA. If they do that sort of character assassination, I hope - I HOPE - they get mad. I'm so tired of reading "well, this is what would happen after 30 years," I could scream. Corellian Smuggler and I have been banging back against that narrative. The best is being told "you don't understand SW" or "You don't understand narrative."

      And if they go that way with the story - Luke blowing up the hut? I'm gonna laugh my ass off too. I might actually go to a theater for that and sit in the audience to hear the reactions.

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    17. And here's one of the "you just don't get it, it's drama!" responses that I got in the middle of:

      https://culturevulture73.tumblr.com/post/155814629027/hausofodin-thesouthernjedi-hands-up-if-you

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    18. I haven't read the whole thing yet, but already need to comment on the idea that evil will always keep returning and good will never last. If so, then honestly, what is even the point? If everything is ultimately going to be brought down again, why even try? That doesn't make sense. Sure, nothing should always just be forever perfect always, but it is also ridiculous to say that evil will always return and ultimately everything is tragedy.

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    19. That "evil will always return" thing is also totally a misunderstanding of dramatic arcs. It's nearly always a mistake to take a real world understanding - like the fact that there will always be a fight against "evil" and apply it to a drama as if real life and storytelling were the same thing. In the real world, time marches on. In storytelling, you as the writer have an obligation to find an ending point to your story in which something is irrevocably changed, at which point the story is over.

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    20. It's also inherent in myth, especially the monomyth, that it ENDS. Star Wars was always a modern variant of the monomyth. Now they're turning it into a neverending serial, and IMHO it doesn't fit very comfortably in that form, because in a serial, characters don't change much (e.g. Indiana Jones) and each episode stands alone.

      We've seen characters the OT3 change significantly over Eps IV - VI and we can all describe pretty clearly HOW and WHY they changed. TPTB tried to unmake that in 7, because in a serial, characters don't change (but since we already saw the change, it rings false here). Rey and Finn change in Ep VII but if the guiding concept is now "nothing ever changes, the war is eternal" then those changes are going to have to be minimized at some point too.

      The monomyth and serial really don't live together comfortably at all.

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    21. On the son of the daughter vs the daughter of the son:

      https://culturevulture73.tumblr.com/post/155948028972/charming-tothelast-corellian-smuggler

      On Han as a lousy father (thanks Ewokkey!):
      https://culturevulture73.tumblr.com/post/155949794207/what-do-you-think-of-jjs-interview-where-he-says

      And Corellian Smuggler's epic takedown - seriously, all her notes back and forth were wonderful but this one is the best:
      https://culturevulture73.tumblr.com/post/155776352812/corellian-smuggler-the-audacious-love-dragon



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    22. It breaks my heart every time I think that the new fans will only know Luke, Han and Leia this way - but what gives me hope is so many of them are going back to the OT. (I mean, I was watching The Chew and Daphne Oz said she was showing her kids and fam the OT - "4, 5, and 6" is how she said it - over the holidays.)

      I think what will eventually happen is that people will remember the OT more than anything - those were movies - like Casablanca and GWTW and a few others - that will endure. People will go back to see them.

      The new stuff will be like the Marvel movies - you forget them after you see them. Hell, I didn't even remember Han had seen the stupid map.

      But people will remember the real thing.

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    23. Kels, totally agree on your monomyth vs serial - I've blogged that a couple of times - the never ending reboot and origin story comic book style. The head of Disney even said we'd get the "origin story" of Han. Well, I saw that. It's called A New Hope.

      People want more and more: Leia origin with the girl from Stranger Things, Luke with Sebastian Stan playing Luke between Jedi and TFA and I guess I'm going to finally just have to say "this is my Star Wars" and that over there? isn't.

      I just keep hoping that they will eventually kill the goose that laid the golden egg and then make fois gras out of its liver and that will be it. But I'm sure it won't. But as one of the hosts of the Going Solo podcast (and seriously, it's so good!) said, paraphrased, that when Finn, Rey and Poe have their characters ruined, maybe the new generation will get it.

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    24. Thanks for the links cv... Argh that drives me NUTS when people say "Well come on were Han and Leia ever going to be compatible anyway?" Uh yeah that was what their ENTIRE STORY in the OT was about. Do you really think Lucas who loves Princess Leia and knew what an important role model she was for girls planned to purposefully put Leia with a perpetual man child who was going to fly off and go back to smuggling after ROTJ?

      It does make me sad that so many of the new fans seem to outright hate Han and Leia. But hopefully the next shiny thing will come along and they'll get distracted. Same with the Han/Emilia Clarke's character shippers. Han/Leia fans have been around for 40 years. We'll stay around.

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    25. Forgot to add this before, but I really don't think they will recast. It would have made more sense to have a stand in and then CGI their face like they did with Ingrid in Rogue One but since they're not doing CGI most of the audience would just be left going "Huh? Who is this random woman?" It's not like the prequels where we all knew young Obi Wan wasn't going to look like Alec Guinness, this will be at most a few years after Episode IX. I also don't have any hope they will fix anything with bringing Han back from the dead or anything. It's out with the old, in with the new and TPTB have already shown they don't give a crap about the old characters anyway. And if Rey really is a random, I think a Kylo redemption is inevitable. Disney isn't going to let the Skywalker line die out. Too bad the only Skywalker left is a whiny Emo brat....

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    26. More examples of how JJ ruined the characters to the point people retroactively are finding flaws in the OT in their love story: http://bookriot.com/2016/02/01/han-solo-not-romance-hero-youre-looking/

      http://www.tor.com/2016/02/10/love-star-wars-universe-canon-healthy/comment-page-1/

      Please leave the OT alone and stop looking for "clues" that Han and Leia were incompatible in the OT because of what happened in TFA, because Lucas didn't put them in there!

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    27. I tried the first one, saw something about Han as a man child and clicked away. What BS.

      The second one is even more infuriating. So...all the relationships in the NEW movie are SO MUCH BETTER than the old OT. Because, right, Finn and Poe bonding in five minutes is so much better than Luke and Han. Rey and Finn is so much better than Han and Leia. And the three of them....ooops, they're never even together!

      What a crock.

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  33. As a reader, I'm eternally grateful to all of you wonderful authors who continue to publish in the old canon/AUs/whatever. With the real world so seemingly crazy right now (not that I would know; I'm ignoring it), I'm so happy to take refuge in a GFFA where the characters I love live happily ever after with no evil offspring. :)

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    1. I wish this had a 'like' button, Jenny, because that's exactly how I feel. I head to the GFFA for refuge and escapism and to read and write what I love. Anything to do with TFA does not exist there for me because I will not allow any of it into what I always refer to as my 'happy place'...it doesn't make me happy!

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  34. What amuses me no end, though, having just seen it on a twitter feed, is that if Lucas likes, say, Rogue One or the new Han Solo comic, it's seen as an endorsement by fans...the same fans who have done nothing but tar and feather him for the prequels and the sequel edits. And by amuse, I mean in the most painful way possible.

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    1. I don't even really buy Lucas endorsing anything at this point. I mean seriously, what is he going to say? He's never going to say it is terrible. He could say that it maybe doesn't align with his vision but that's probably as far as it's going to go. Also, as a special effects visionary he would probably be impressed just with what they've done on that front and can maybe overlook the ridiculous story. The guy is in his 70s and probably exhausted, I would guess he doesn't have a strong opinion on much of anything at this point.

      I think a lot of times people forget that many of these people have financial interest in having a certain opinion. Also, if he were to loudly announce his dislike for it, it's just going to make more people want to talk to him about it. If he just silently nods along, people will leave him alone, because that's not a story.

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    2. Didn't Lucas say outright he didn't like TFA at all and how they totally threw out his story treatments? (Which were about a female Jedi character as Han and Leia's daughter going to find Luke who was in hiding with Han and Leia together and happily married with another non Force sensitive son).

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    3. That's what I read. Rey and Poe were originally (under other names) Han and Leia's children, they were still married and a general and senator. The kids go off on a quest - I'm not sure it was to find Luke or how long Luke had been gone (I hope not long)...

      The Jedi Killer comes from those treatments and wasn't their kid.

      And suddenly it was all thrown out and that's the part I never looked into...I think it was because the Toy Story guy Arndt couldn't make the story work or some such and was taking too long or maybe it was just because they hired Abrams, and then it became "fitting sendoff for the OT3" and it all went to hell.

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    4. I think Arndt was taking too long and then JJ brought Kasdan on board. And once Kasdan was there Han and Leia were pretty much doomed because he's always said he disliked how their romance played out and he wanted ROTJ to end with Han dying and Luke and Leia going off in separate directions but Lucas wanted a happy ending. So with Lucas out of the picture he finally got what he wanted.

      One interesting thing I would have really like to have seen explored is a non Force sensitive son of Han and Leia like Poe. You can totally see qualities of both Han and Leia in present day Poe - righteous and a leader like Leia and an ace pilot with bravado like Han. It's such a shame that both Rey and Poe seem way more like the cool kids Han and Leia would actually have than emo brat Kylo. And I'm annoyed they kept those cool characters but of course made them unrelated to Han and Leia so the only thing to come out of Han and Leia's love story is Darth Emo.

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    5. Yeah, Arndt was taking too long...

      What is Kasdan's problem with their romance? He didn't even like Harrison in Empire. Was he upset they didn't say his deathless dialogue word for word? He got a great rep out of Empire!

      It's sad listening to Mark Hamill on the Nerdist podcast saying he didn't think they should have come back - and mentioning George. So that proves they signed up with George not Disney. Sigh.

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    6. And REALLY sad to read that Mark has a way better ending of Luke coming back to save Han and HE SAYS that Han's death has not much resonance. Yes!

      The current Nerdist interview with Mark:
      http://nerdist.com/podcasts/nerdist-podcast-channel/

      The second half is Star Wars but these comments are in the last ten minutes. And watch it - the iTunes version has a weird skip at about the last ten minutes.

      Worth. It.


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    7. It's really pathetic when the actors in it are saying they didn't think this was such a good idea and pointing out the lack of resonance to what should have been a giant moment. (I like his idea of Luke racing back to save him much more -- but I don't think Luke should have been too late. I think Luke should have done for Han what Han did for Luke at the end of ANH. Think of how awesome it would have been if Kylo was about to put the saber through Han when all of a sudden some unseen force jerks his saber up, and we see, standing there a level above them: LUKE SKYWALKER.

      Who then proceeds to have a lightsaber duel with Kylo, injuring but not killing him (because that's who Luke is), and Kylo is then spirited out of there by Hux. Luke goes to collect the injured and brings them back to the Resistance base, where we have a more somber ending, but one that still resonates with the ending of ANH. And we get to see the OT3 together one last time.

      Yeah, I would have liked that film.

      And Hamill is going to get a "pipe down" letter from Lucasfilm for that if he's got a non-disparagement clause in his contract.

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    9. Kels, I love your ending.

      THAT would have been a resonant ending, true to the Luke we all knew, and damn it would have rocked. That theater would have blown apart with cheering.

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    10. Now THAT would've been an ending. I mean, I think most of us left that theater just feeling.... defeated. And cheated, but largely defeated. It felt so bleak and dire and, well, hopeless. I mean, sure, ok, Rey found Luke. Cool, I guess. Han was gone, Luke had been hiding, Leia I guess was doing what Leia does and just moving on without having any emotion at all, but that was it, her husband was dead, and her own son killed him. And it was kinda her fault. But sure, go ahead and just act normal, Leia. Nobody wants to walk out of their Star Wars movies feeling so hopeless and defeated.

      And I'm sure people would counter that with, "Well, at the end of Empire..." yeah, totally, things were pretty bad at the end of Empire. BUT, Han wasn't dead. Luke lost a battle but was recovering and ready to come back. Leia still had plenty to live for and could go on and get Han back and start their lives together. There is just no such hope here.

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    11. I think a lot of us could have dealt with Han and Leia being estranged if Han hadn't died. We lived with it in the old EU where they reconciled and their bond got even stronger. Or even if they had had a real reconciliation and then he had died, not the "well I'm sort of still fond of you as an ex husband" lame writing we got.

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    12. Honestly, I could have dealt with Han and Leia estranged and Luke gone away, if they'd cut that ridiculous Starkiller destruction and instead gone and gotten Luke. Hell, have Kylo have the map too and they're racing him to Luke. Have Han come up the stairs with Rey then they have to load in the Falcon and make it to hyperspace before Kylo gets there. Then start 8 with Luke, Han and Leia reuniting. The plot was map to Luke, not talk about a map then spend half the movie with Starkiller. Then you lose the ridiculousness of yet another Death STar and Kylo isn't complicit in the death of billions if you want to redeem his sorry ass.

      Then if you're still all fired up to kill Han, kill him mid 8, in defense of Luke and Leia. Hell, he can still try to get Kylo if that's the way you want to play it.

      Give him a fitting end, not yammering at his idiotic child about Snoke taking his power and crushing him because how in the world does Han have any damn idea about that? Where does he come up with it? That's not what the Emperor was going to do to Luke or what we've seen any Force user do!

      Not kill him before he sees Luke or reconciles with Leia. Mark is right - there's no resonance to Han's death. None. Because it's such an obvious Qui Gon/Obi Wan moment when he's not a Jedi and it does nothing to forward the plot. He doesn't die in front of Luke or Leia, to whom it would mean something - the only person it means anything to is Chewie and he can't talk! The Kylostans have some convoluted "Han commits suicide" BS theory. Leia recovers in minutes and hugs random girl and Luke's just brooding on his rock. It's just a mess of wasted opportunities.

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    13. And you're right, Zyra, you come out of Empire sort of okay. Luke's got a new hand and he and Leia are going to rescue Han. They've all been through hell, but there's some hope.

      I guess TFA has some hope for Rey and Finn, but it makes NOTHING right - which is what the opening promises.

      I walked out of that theater like I'd been slugged in the face. I don't honestly care if Luke makes it out in the end - he sat on his rock and let Han die, I'm angry at him now. It's such an absolute betrayal of them all.

      But hey, it's just another comic book and there will be another reset...oh, wait, one of the characters is dead and unlike comic books, he doesn't come back.

      And if they recast Leia, I think they better be prepared for a world of hurt.

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    14. Yeah the Starkiller Base thing was super cheap and lazy. It also made all the heroics of Rogue One kind of pointless because in Rogue One they make it seem like destroying a Death Star required all these heroic sacrifices and tons of planning but in TFA they have like a quick two minute planning session and then blow it up. And it blew up the New Republic, but did anyone care? We never even saw the Senate in action, because JJ was so terrified of the prequel backlash he refused to have any political scenes.

      I actually was fully expecting Han to die because of how long Harrison and Kasdan have been talking about wanting to kill Han off since ROTJ but the way it happened was way too brutal. Especially because JJ and Kasdan apparently want us to thing Han was a lousy father and was responsible for his son going Dark, so he deserved what he got?

      And even then, I think I could have accepted what happened better if JJ and Adam hadn't gone off in interview about how Han and Leia were a horrible pair who fought all the time and that they were too wrapped up in their selfish desires to pay attention too their son. When has anyone ever described Leia as selfish, ever? Oh and as a career woman who plans on having kids the "Leia had a career therefore she must have a been a terrible mother" 1950s trope was extra aggravating and an insult to all the working mothers out there.

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  35. I know we have already said all these things mostly, I am just so glad to see any articles that are seeing all the things I'm seeing and telling me I'm not crazy.

    http://www.thewrap.com/rogue-one-disney-doesnt-get-star-wars-force-awakens/

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    1. I liked Rogue One. It's no A New Hope, but no movie is (except maybe the Princess Bride, my second favourite movie). I'd rank it below ANH and ESB, but above the prequels and TFA by a mile. But that's just my opinion ;)

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    2. Thank you for that article - it is right on the money!

      Did I see the takedown from Christianity Today here or on Tumblr?

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  36. Apparently I wasn't finished finding Carrie videos on youtube. This one is hilarious. It's similar to her roasting of Harrison and George at their AFI award tributes, just her being ridiculously funny. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9Stjtuc2IE

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    1. is there anywhere with the full AFI where she shoots the bird at George while Mark looks on in mock horror and Harrison laughs?

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    2. I feel like I've only seen it on youtube where it is in pieces and cuts off without seeing anyone's reactions.

      I have a feeling I had or possibly still have that entire thing on VHS somewhere. But I am much too lazy to look for it, and it would also require me hooking up my VCR.

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