So we don't keep ruining the fun of talking about Han Solo's sex life on the other thread, here is a post for you to talk about Bloodline. I'm not going to say much about it because I really doubt I'll read it, unless maybe for free someday but even that is questionable. I don't think anyone would mind if you posted spoilers here about it. I know I don't. By all means, go ahead and tell me anything that might be sort of good about it.
I have spoilers from someone who's read the book, PM me on the JC (I'm unicorn) for those who want them.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I will say on here is that yes, Han and Leia are still together and still a couple in it. It takes place 6 years before TFA.
As I said in the post, you are free to post spoilers.
DeleteThe people who have the book aren't supposed to talk about spoilers publicly until the book has been released so I'll hold off on spilling the juicy details until the book release date in May.
DeleteWell nothing could really ruin talking about Han's sex life.
ReplyDeleteExcept that interspecies sex thing that LoveThis! brought up....that's so Captain Kirk. KIDDING, LoveThis! :)
DeleteDude, it's not where I wanted to go! I'm serious!! But in Tatooine Ghost Leia actually seems legit jealous of an female red alien in a dance hall with six arms and seems to wonder how well Han knows her. And I'm like... why would Leia be jealous of a female of another species... no... wait... no... I mean... NO... but some fanfic out there is pretty icky... ewwwww... someone tell me I'm wrong about that... !!!
DeleteLol, just joking! :) I did remember, though, that Abrams went there with Capt Kirk having a threesome with two women with tails in one of his Trek films, so maybe we're all better off that Han is dead or we'd be seeing some Twi'lek chick with her head tentacles (or whatever they're called) wrapped around sad-defeated-still-in-love-with-Leia aging Han (if you're us) or ZOMG-SUCH-A-COOL-OLD-ROGUE-BADASS-DUMPING-HIS-AGING-WIFE-AND-GETTING-HIS-FREAK-ON-WITH-A-YOUNGER-HOTTER-ALIEN Han (if you're JJ).
DeleteTHAT'S RIGHT.
DeleteIn the Rebel series there's a human/Twi'lek love story. It's not like having sex with an animal, there are a lot of humanoid alien species where the Anatomy is pretty much the same. I don't have a problem with Han having hooked up with humanoid aliens before Leia - I mean remember people used to be disgusted by interracial dating because they were different colour skin, this would be similar no? Han's open minded - why not taste the rainbow LOL.
DeleteI don't know if being humanoid is the same as different human races. We're all of the same species, despite differences in skin color. There are plenty of examples where the parts align, but reproduction isn't possible because the DNA is too different!
DeleteI don't know if they ever get into that in the EU, half human/alien hybrids. But there are definitely cases in the EU of humans and Twi'leks and humans and another humanoid species marrying, so it seems pretty socially acceptable. Since Han isn't a prude, I just assumed he had probably had sex with a variety of alien humanoid species before Leia.
DeleteI just remembered a part of the Crystal Star where Han goes off with Luke on vacation and he's getting jealous of some good looking Codru-Ji and says something like "He better keep all four hands off of her" LOL.
Well it is true that Han is anything but a prude! And if it's possible, I'm sure he's tried it. LOL.
DeleteI'll say something about Bloodline:
ReplyDeleteThat's a fugly, fugly cover they've got on it. Even if I weren't on a Disney boycott, it's an offputting, nearly socialist realism style cover.
It is, isn't it? What happened to all those nice colourful covers from the Bantam era? The covers from this new canon have been extremely drab looking. Doesn't make you want to read the book does it?
DeleteAgreed. And no Han on the cover either.
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DeleteGuys I HAVE IT. I'm not going to spoil it, but I will say there is a TON of H/L goodness stuffed in here. Claudia Gray is obviously a H/L shipper and it shows. I think H/L fans will be very happy with this book. Claudia Gray's Leia is dead on and all the political intrigue is *fascinating*.
ReplyDeleteI've read from others the Han/Leia parts are great too. Glad to get a second opinion from a Han/Leia fan!
DeleteThank you, MacKay.
DeleteOh nice to know. I still think I will be ugly crying through the entire dang book, but I think I'm going to have to go out and buy it.
DeleteHere's a snippet that leaked:
ReplyDelete"Never imagined this, Han had murmured, sitting up in their bed late at night, Ben's tiny head resting in the crook of his father's arm. "Having a kid. Even wanting a kid. But now he's here and -"
"And you're a dad." Leia had leaned closer, unable to resist the chance to tease her husband. "Just think hotshot. Someday you might even be a grandad."
Han's chuckle had warmed her. "Speak for yourself, sweetheart. Me, I ain't ever getting old."
"Princess Leia?"
Leia snapped out of her reverie, back into the here and now.
So unimaginably FLUFFY, but also so SAD at the same time!
DeleteThis brief reminiscence seems to run seriously counter to some things that have been heavily pushed by certain powers that be. I am happy to see that, but it almost feels like there's a disconnect between what the filmmakers are saying and what the book side is saying.
DeleteI'll give some VAGUE spoilers, but nothing explicit as I don't want to ruin the book (Srsly, it should be illegal for someone to be as talented as Claudia Gray).
ReplyDelete1) Han and Leia are still happily married.
2) Ben is not Dark yet. He is training with Luke. Leia mentions Ben is around 23.
3) The book is 100% from Leia's POV. It's about her political career and how she's the only Senator to warn the Republic about the First Order.
4) Leia makes plans to retire with Han and go adventuring around the galaxy in his Falcon as his co-pilot.
5) Han owns a shipping company.
6) There are some flashbacks to Han and Leia in earlier years, including Ben's conception (it did NOT take place indoors, hehe).
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DeleteSo, Mac Kay, curious - would you say this book kind of walks back some of the theories that JJ Abrams and Carrie Fisher have floated about whether Han and Leia actually worked as a couple? It sounds to me, from what you're saying, that it does, but someone else who read it said that he could see why Ren thought his childhood was dysfunctional. It sounds like your read (and the quote ewokkey dropped above) is that this was not a dysfunctional situation - whether Ben was an oops baby (like half of humanity) or not -- which makes me think both Han/Leia were blindsided when their kid turned so awful. I can see that blowing up a marriage (it also makes some of the lines in TFA make less sense and some make more sense).
DeleteI'm not asking for further spoilers - I'll wait for a copy to be avail at my local library if I decide to read it -- but more just musing that this seems to be not in line with things in that TFA documentary that's on the DVD (I haven't seen it).
Well the person who made that comment was referring to Han and Leia having busy careers. He didn't say the book suggests there was anything in the family dynamic that was dysfunctional. According to people who've read the book it seems Ben had a happy childhood.
DeleteOk, good. Maybe I mistook the comment about how Ben could have viewed his childhood.
DeleteAnd now I just might have to read it (6, 4, and 1)!!!!!
DeleteThat is a good question Kels about if the book refutes some of the dysfunctional family stuff. I'm a little curious myself.
ReplyDeleteThe spoilers sound great, but give me some concern and make me a little sad. I'm not sure that the book will be enough to counteract the sway towards Han and Leia seen as bad parents. Not that it matters and people can pick and choose what they believe or follow like we do. But not sure this would be enough to convince someone they weren't bad parents if they don't already believe it. Again it doesn't matter, but it would be nice if it was shown they weren't as bad as people might be saying and it's a trick of Snoke to sway Ben.
The part about Leia retiring and going off to fly around with Han just makes me sad. So they were going to have a good time together and everything got ruined instead? And now separated or divorced? That's really a bummer for me.
So am I reading this correctly that Ben is 23 in the story? If so, it makes it harder for me to believe that him turning to the Dark Side would break Han and Leia up. They would have been married 23+ years at this point and by then you'd think it'd be easier to weather such things together. It's not implausible but I would think it would be more diffcult. I've been married almost that long myself and by this point we'll be annoying each other for a very long time to come. ;) There's just a familiarity and bond that you'll stick through things no matter what. Just a thought. Unless there is some very weird stuff going on and Snoke and/or Luke have been up to no good or manipulating things.
I feel like only the films can convince some people that they weren't bad parents. I'm still hoping that by Ep IX Kylo figures out he was wrong about everything and that Snoke destroyed him and maligned his family. I'm not holding my breath for that to happen.
DeleteYeah, I had the same thought. They can pick and choose but potentially a bummer.
DeleteBut I think the people who are convinced that Han and Leia were bad parents are just not going to be reasonable no matter what they see in the movies. I'm just glad that somewhere some sense has prevailed and that even though there isn't a happy ending for H&L, at least there are happy times!
DeleteYeah, no matter what the book has the Reylo shippers are going to be in their own echo chamber and nothing will convince them otherwise. Even if the book shows Han and Leia being good parents they'll just be like "That was an anamoly, the rest of the time they were bad." or "Leia has a skewed memory because she's biased". To them nothing will convince them otherwise that Han and Leia were these horribly abusive parents that turned Ben to the Dark side with their absentee parenting and screaming fights. Even though you know as someone who's at least 23 when he turns, he's a grown up adult who's responsible for his OWN choices. Entitled millennial much?
DeleteAlso, like 99% of people who watch the movies don't read the books or supplementary material. A lot of people didn't even think Han and Leia were married because it's never mentioned if they are in the movie. Then the mainstream media jumped all over the bad parents angle and did a million articles on it. So yeah, Han and Leia are still ruined in the eyes of most of the movie viewing population.
DeleteIt seems Pablo and Jen Heddle are trying to do some damage control of JJ comments, judging from their tweets.
Is it confirmed that he's 23 when he goes dark? That's around the age where it would make sense from my perspective. It would also parallel nicely with the age Anakin was when he turned and when Luke was tested.
DeleteThat's one part of the film that REALLY bugged me, that they didn't mention they were married. To the average cinema goer they could easily think they had a kid together and then went their separate ways and hadn't seen each other for decades. Which we know is not the case. Clearly JJ didn't care enough to make a point of letting people know they DID get married.
DeleteYou know what, you're right claire1976! I bet that was JJA's head canon at play, going against the official story!
DeleteI know so many people who left the movie thinking Han and Leia just had a brief wartime fling that resulted in Ben and hadn't seen each other since. Or that they had been divorced for years. Grrr
DeleteWe are not sure when Ben goes Dark but he's at least 23 when it happens. My guess is that the very last page will be Leia finding out about the massacre.
Thank you! After watching the movie that first rime, I was pulling my hair put terrified that they weren't ever married. Then, I came back here for my therapy sessions. Partial relief however small.
DeleteOk, so this is sounding much better than I thought it would. That extract is adorable and yet so sad at the same time. Han says he'll never grow old, and he didn't, not really. He dies long before his time :(
ReplyDeleteThe conception of Ben has got me REALLY interested. Ok, so I'm having visions of them outside going at it up against a tree or something.....;)
One thing that makes me happy is that if Leia made plans to retire and go galaxy hopping with Han then I really don't think their marriage could have been the dysfunctional, always arguing one that JJ Abrams described with them having screaming fights and Han storming out after. Otherwise I don't see Leia making plans to give up her current life and run away with Han on adventures for the rest of her life.
ReplyDeleteI've heard it's confirmed Han and Leia were married when Ben was conceived so no worries about a shot gun wedding. I know some people on this blog were worried about that.
ReplyDeleteI guess now I'm kind of... confused. I mean, of course it's nice to learn that it looks like it's better than we thought it was going to be. But at the same time it doesn't really seem to connect with what we were told about the actual movie. The dialog could go either way (as Kels said, it is terrible and meaningless) but what they were implying when they talked about it made it sound not very good.
ReplyDeleteThis is why you can't jump ahead 30 years and have a complicated back story we have no way of knowing as to why our characters are not where we thought they would be. Between Episode 3 and Episode 4, anyone we knew from the prequels was pretty much doing what we would expect. I know it's different because we saw the follow-up first, but it wouldn't have made sense if at the end of Revenge of the Sith we found out Obi Wan had gotten married and his wife was pregnant or something. Then it's like.... well wait, what happened there? It just doesn't work. Especially when the whole point is to move the story along for the new people. Why make everything so complicated for the characters we knew and just leave us all kind of confused when you could've just left them alone and actually let us focus on the new ones without that distraction?
Yeah, I would have much preferred if they just left the OT out of it. But $$$$. Bringing back Harrison Ford as Han Solo was a huge money maker for Disney. That's all it was really.
DeleteAnd yeah, it does seem like they are retconning some of the dialogue in TFA, which I guess is fine by me if it benefits H/L. Like Han says "a boy" turned against the Jedi Academy and the novelization says Han hasn't seen Ben as a grown man, but obviously that isn't true since we know Ben didn't turn until he was 23 or older. And Han and Leia do make it sound like things were rocky, but maybe that can just be interpreted that obviously things got rocky after Ben's fall, not that their marriage up until then was not good.
They seem pretty lovey-dovey in Bloodline, so it doesn't seem (thankfully) that Del Rey is going down this "they had a horrible marriage that turned Ben to the Dark Side" route.
Thank God for Claudia Gray. She's a huge Han/Leia shipper and used to write fanfic about them so I'm so glad she was tapped to write this book. Imagine if some terrible KJA author had gotten it....
Oh, in many ways I'd rather they left H&L out of TFA. JJA is Darth Abrams in my mind! But, yes I'll take all the retcon they have because the AU submitted by Darth Abrams is so much worse!
DeleteShe was a fanfic writer too? Is this the new thing where all of the women writing the Leia books used to write fanfic? I'm not complaining about this, just curious.
DeleteThat said, in a way, learning that things were really good for them makes the whole thing more sad. Not that I want things to have been awful, but you know what I mean.
It also makes the dialog from the movie make even less sense.
I understand how you feel. Disney is just trying to do as much damage control and plot fixing as they can.
DeleteJen Heddle who used to write Han/Leia fanfic recruited both Claudia Gray and Martha Wells who were Han/Leia fanfic writers, so it makes sense.
DeleteIt does make knowing how it ends sad, though I prefer that things were good for 20+ years instead of thinking they had some horrible dysfunctional marriage where they were always screaming at each other.
I challenge the fic writers to write an AU where Leia does go off and retires with Han and follows him around on his racing career instead of running for First Senator and Ben doesn't turn out to be a colossal asshole...
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ReplyDeleteCompared with stagnating in the Senate? Han’s world sounded like paradise. “Freedom and adventure.”
ReplyDeleteShe sighed. “Yeah. I’m ready.”
Han studied her for a few moments, then began to grin. “You realize—after three months on the same ship, we’re gonna kill each other.”
Leia leaned closer to the terminal so he would see the wickedness in her smile. “But won’t those three months be fun?”
She was thinking of a sublight run they’d undertaken together early in their marriage, which had begun with a great deal of bickering. However, all that time alone, with no one to interrupt them, had eventually led to much more enjoyable pursuits.
Given the timing, she was fairly sure those pursuits had directly led, some months later, to Ben’s birth.
“Oh, we’ll have fun.” Han brushed his fingers near the holocam, as if he could touch her face. “You better believe it.”
The next day, in the Senate, Leia found herself remembering the way Han had said that, turning it over and over in her mind like a young girl daydreaming. Of course she was being ridiculous, and she was rarely so easily distracted while the Senate was in session.
Ahh...lovely. Thanks for posting this.
Deletei'm glad to hear that it sounds like Bloodline's depiction of Han and Leia- happily married for many years- is in line with what George Lucas set up in the OT. (though I still think they would have more than one child, but that's another conversation)
ReplyDeleteI should be grateful for this back-pedaling backstory, but it still just leaves me sad and thoroughly disappointed in Disney, because bottom line, the 'last' part of their relationship given to us in TFA was ambiguous and miserable and tragic.
What's going on at Disney? There's so much contradiction between tptb...
In my humble opinion, Disney let J.J., Kasdan, etc. do what they wanted, but that contradicted with what Disney likes to put out, i.e. stories with happy endings. Not ones with a son killing a dad horrificly and upsetting fans. Disney wants everyone to be happy with their product. And that's great, I love Disney World and Disneyland. They didn't think this out very well. Now, they have to backpedal to appease the fans as much as they can. And that might even affect the outcomes of the next 2 films as well.
ReplyDeleteWith all these seeming contradictories we're finding, what are they planning on doing? Forgetting them like the EU? 'Well, that's just what that author said, but here's what I think.'
DeleteI don't know. It's just damage control, really. Disney can't possible believe that having Han killed by his son is a good thing for it. I can't believe that they'd allow all of this tragedy to befall the Big 3 in a franchise that Disney now owns.
DeleteIt seems more and more unlikely Rey is a Skywalker too, which to me shows a very depressing look at the Skywalker family. If Rey is just a Random or Kenobi or whatever, then basically it's saying that the Skywalkers have done nothing good except mess up the galaxy and cause the deaths of billions time and time again. Pretty bleak outlook.
Delete*The reason why I feel like her being a Skywalker is becoming less likely is because of JJ answer that Rey's parents are not in Episode VII (he backtracked, but I feel like his first answer could have been the right one), and the timing of Rey being dropped off not lining up with anything since we know Ben didn't massacre the Academy until he was 23. And in Bloodline Leia never mentions Luke having a wife or child at any point, so it's going to require some convulated backstory to explain how she ends up on Jakku and why Luke doesn't know about her...
Yeah, but then someone is going to have explain why Han and Rey finished each other's sentences, why Han gave her a little teaching, why Leia hugged Rey like a mother at the end of the movie, and why the Han/Leia theme played while they hugged. Makes no sense if she's not a relative, especially if she's not Han and Leia's daughter.
DeleteWell, we've known for ages she isn't Han and Leia's daughter. Daisy said so and Bloodline confirmed Ben is Han and Leia's only kid. But I thought there was a lot of clues that she was Luke's daughter in TFA, and most of the people who left the theatre thought so as well. It just seems with the backstory being revealed it's going to require a convoluted explanation - most people thought Rey being abandoned at Jakku and the Jedi Massacre occurred at the same time, but now we know they were a decade apart. So how did Rey get to be abandoned on a desert island during a time of peace and prosperity? And why does Leia not remember Luke having a wife or kid?
DeleteI just think if she is a Random it's a very cynical look at the Skywalkers. Okay, the first Skywalker destroyed 1,000 years of peace, then the second Skywalker managed to get peace for 23 years, but then one of them bred, and the third gen Skywalker ruined it all and murdered billions and turned the galaxy into chaos again. Makes you glad the Skywalker line will die off with Kylo (unless they mate him with Rey, gag).
Well...hm. Some of these comments have set the cat amongst the pigeons in my head. I've been simultaneously dying to read Bloodline--and determined to avoid it. I've been yearning for some little "official" crumb that says Han and Leia had a long, happy marriage--but anxious in case it also details their breakup. I'm trying like hell to preserve my fragile little vision of their love story and not have it wrecked by "official" canon. Having scanned through your comments here, I'm feeling cautiously optimistic....
ReplyDeleteI know, I know. It's all fiction. And I should be able to set aside JJA/Disney canon as easily as I can set aside some fanfic writers' bizarre AU stories. Only it's not quite as easy to do, considering how hugely popular TFA is and how I can't even go to the grocery store without being reminded (via loudspeaker) about "everybody's favourite new villain -- KYLO REN!!" (This happened to me yesterday; I'm still smarting).
Anyway, never mind. I'm retreating into fanfiction and hoping to go back and read some older stories that seem to have disappeared. Does anyone know where I can find "Conversations" by Green Branches? Thanks in advance...
Yeah, that's kinda how a feel about Bloodline. I love the happy Han/Leia stuff, but still, kind of knowing how it's going to end spoils my want to the read the book. In my opinion, they really just need to backtrack the whole Han/Leia story. Yeah I know, it won't happen. So, I'll see what the 1st spoiler writes on the internet and then decide what to do. Just because some of the storyline is somewhat good for them doesn't necess. make me any happier.
DeleteWe know the break up isn't going to be in this book because the massacre doesn't occur in it, and they didn't break up until after that. The massacre occurs 1-2 years after Bloodline.
Deletethis retcon of the TFA retcon does not surprise me. The idea of Han being a lost drunk who left his wife and gave up on his teenage son 15 years before TFA cut made Han less of a commodity for the origins movie. The new Han story had to be rehabilitated.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Besides, who'd want to see young Han Solo after they know how tragic his story panned out? Dumb...
DeleteSo this manipulation renders Han more the tragic hero. Much broader demographic to appeal to. More acceptable to us but doesnt cure the insult of waiting 30 years for a hug and a trio reunion that will never happen. but. rathtars!
DeleteExcept that there was a middle ground here...appeasing both the new and old generations. It wasn't a black-and-white issue. The Big 3 could've had a better ending in TFA while introducing the new characters.
DeleteI squarely blame the man-child contingent of SW fans who see Han Solo as the ultimate Bro, running free across the galaxy with his Wookie and getting into trouble. Space Bros before Space Hoes! JJA is the president of that fan club, and he was willing to do anything to get it, even assasinate Han's character arc to do it.
DeleteExactly LoveThis, like I said JarJar Abrams just wanted to play with his childhood hero single smuggler Han. He didn't care if it negated Han's character arc.
DeleteI wonder if the shift is for business reasons? First, it seems like they shifted the age that Ben fell - in the script it says Han hasn't seen Ben since he was a boy, indicating Ben fell as a teenager. Maybe they realized there weren't a lot of books to sell with Luke staring off into the weeds and Han off smuggling with some new fling and Leia all alone.
Typical of the man-child FanBros is the sentiment that Han Solo was a "wuss" for not going out with guns blazing. Some fans think that Han was out of character for going out on that bridge to attempt to bring back his son. That was perceived as a "weak " way to die, by reaching out to your wayward family member and telling them how much you love them no matter what. Goes to show you what kind of douchery we're dealing with. JJA just wanted Rathtars! Sexy Luggage! (Which is now my favorite term for Han.)
DeleteI definitely think they decided to retcon for business reasons! There's a reason Han Solo was such a popular character to begin with! Yeah, he's a FanBro's fantasy at the start of ANH, but he also made the ladies swoon (and some men) because he's really a romantic, and loyal man at heart! (Totally not a Bro, bro!) That's essential to Han's appeal, and making him a bad father, a bad husband, and a shifty dude who runs out on his family to smuggle totally kills his appeal. TPTB need to keep their eyes on the prize. It's harder to sell "Bad Father Han Solo." Much, much easier to sell "Tragic!Han" who does everything right and then loses it all.
Totally agree LoveThis! TFA was a total slap in the face to my generation who grew up loving the Han Solo character and the original trio! I'm can't believe how bad TFA is in every possible way, what were TPTB thinking?! Congrats TPTB, you have now screwed up the most popular and lucrative franchise ever. So say goodbye to all the OT fans and their pocketbooks (because obviously that's all you care about). I will be sticking with Lucas's vision. Thank you George, you brought magic to my childhood, your characters and world continue to brighten my days!
DeleteAmen, SouthPassage.
DeleteOkay, so one super fun thing with Bloodline has been seeing the complete meltdown of Reylo fans. First: 1) Denial! Bloodline isn't canon because it doesn't conform to my head canon that Han was an abusive alcoholic husband and father who beat Leia and Ben every night! 2) Bargaining - mental gymnastics that Bloodline PROVES that Han and Leia had a horrible marriage and Han was a terrible father! Han made a joke that he and Leia would kill each other if they were stuck on the same ship so that means Han threatened to physically kill Leia, so he must have abused her! Han and Leia didn't mention their 23 year old adult son during their phone call so they must not love him at all and were terrible parents!
ReplyDeleteWhat's not cool is that some of them took to harassing Claudia Gray on twitter because her book didn't line up with their head canon that Han was their terrible husband and father who had screaming fights with Leia every day and walked out after.
Also, is anyone else sad about the rumours that Leia goes into a coma her first scene in Episode VIII, then dies after a brief scene with Luke? It just seems like a waste of her character she never even gets a scene with her son. On the other hand, Leia's suffered so much by now I almost want her to die to end her suffering.
ReplyDeleteIs that a rumor? In some ways I'm happy she'll be put out of her misery. General Organa is injured, goes into a coma, has a hallucination where she's reunited with Han. They pledge eternal love for each other and wait for their redeemed son to join them in the afterlife.
DeleteOr... General Organa is in a coma, she goes back in time and decides to leave the senate and run around the galaxy with Han. Ben finds out he's Darth Vader's grandchild when he's ready. Ben doesn't go bad. Leia and Han are grandparents to Ben and Rey's children. (HAHA... let's give the ReyLo's a bone!) The kids are super Jedi.
LOL... At this point I won't be surprised by anything they do with the big three (remaining two?)
Yeah it's a rumour so no reliability at this point. The only reliable site is making Star Wars - he got the entire plot of TFA bang on so I don't really trust anything unless it's from his site. He reported that Leia is in a coma from her first scene in the movie when the First Order shoots down her ship but hasn't reported that she dies yet.
DeleteSeriously though, her character seems like such a waste to bring her back and treat her like this. I think some of this may be that Carrie's acting ability isn't up to par, but it really does seem like the mother/son relationship is going to be completely ignored.
Well, I guess it could be interesting if Kylo Ren shoots the ship down. There's some mother/son love right there.
DeleteHa, if that happened the Reyloers would use the "Leia was an abusive mother who didn't love her son" excuse to justify Kylo's actions. It's amazing how that group of fans has managed to convince themselves that Kylo has never done anything wrong and is a hero :p
DeleteEh, I kind of hope they do kill her in the next movie because insofar as the film series goes (ignoring any books etc they retcon in order to make sure older die-hards who actually buy books keep their wallets open), they've kind of ruined the character already by showing that nothing good came out of the fact that this heroic woman existed.
DeleteIn their deep desire to make Rey a tomboy feminist icon, they've trashed the STRONG FEMININE icon of the OT. They've turned Leia into a Timex watch of pain - she just takes a licking and keeps on ticking, which is neither believable as a woman or interesting for a character. (And Rey is so far not a good role-model for young girls, as she's good at EVERYTHING without any adult guidance or much effort. She may be a wish-fulfillment figure, but she translates not at all into what is needed for success in the real world, so I don't buy into the role-model aspect of Rey at all. What happened to Leia repeatedly in the OT? She failed many times but didn't give up until she won. She learned how to put her personal life in some kind of balance with her mission. She learned how to love someone very different than she was. And THAT's a much better message to send to girls.)
The other reasons I hope they kill Leia off are (1) because they shoved so much Botox into Carrie Fisher's face before TFA that she couldn't even speak normally - she doesn't speak like that in between movie shoots when her face actually moves -- and I'm tired of TPTB on Star Wars (since the very beginning) saying Fisher is somehow not quite good enough for what they want - not thin enough back in the OT days, not unwrinkled enough now -- I mean, I thought we were at "yay Women" with Star Wars, but apparently not so much when it comes to older women. So screw it, just let the woman be the awesome Carrie Fisher she is and free her from this "not xxxx enough" thing that Star Wars has had going on with her for 40 years now; (2) it will put at least somewhat to bed all these false statements that Han only died because Ford insisted on it, which is just not true - there was no script when he signed on, and in the earlier drafts, Han didn't die; (3) it will become incredibly obvious to your average moviegoer above 30 that Lucasfilm is just trying to clear the decks so they can go and do whatever they want with Star Wars and it will also tick them off that we're going to see the Big Three killed off one by one. Because I don't see any way Luke gets out of Ep IX alive, if they're at all following Joseph Campbell or any kind of mythological structure - Luke, as the old master, has to die so the young ones can come into their own. I think a lot of people haven't yet realized that "this isn't the Star Wars you're looking for" and I think this will clue people in that the worldview underpinning this trilogy is just not so hot.
So as far as I'm concerned, go ahead, kill her off and try to make the new characters, who right now are just Mary Sue, the magical re-appearing Poe, the pushing-really-hard comic relief, and the villain who is every entitled millennial who pouts when he doesn't get his way into characters we can actually root for or against, and not just because they're either hanging out with Han Solo (Rey and Finn), a metrosexual version of Han Solo (Poe), or related to Han Solo (Darth Whiney).
And sorry, yes, we're talking about the movies again and probably shouldn't be on this thread. In any event, I hope Claudia Grey's "Bloodline" is a good read. I'm still not sure I'll be reading; they said they were getting rid of the EU because it had two levels of canon: (1) movies and (2) everything else, which had a lower level of scrutiny and less obligation to consistency, and it seems to me that that's EXACTLY what they're doing here, but with the knowledge that this all ends badly for the OTP. So I'm on the fence.
DeleteAmen. I'm on the fence, too.
DeleteKels, I love your post! So spot on.
DeleteWhen watching the deleted scenes and comparing Carrie's face in them to her face in TFA, it actually looked like they CGIed out her wrinkles in the actual film (in her reunion scene with Han she has flawless skin)...Women aren't allowed to age but men are in Hollywood I guess!
DeleteAnd yeah, I'm at the point I don't really care if Leia dies in Episode VIII since the poor woman should have really hurled herself off a bridge by now. I just think it was such a waste to bring her character back to have her spawn the next great evil, go into a coma, and then die. The father/son relationship gets a ton of exposition but the mother/son one (despite the fact that Leia's army could kill Kylo on any given day and vice versa) is completely ignored.
That's disgraceful if they CGI'ed her face. I'm glad they got rid of the weird ponytail, but her face is her face and we all freaking age. And as much as Harrison Ford is my favorite actor in the universe, they didn't seem to CGI him, and he's wrinkled like a linen skirt after a picnic in 90-degree heat. (Which, by the way, is fine with me because he's also 73 years old and looks great for his age, wrinkles and all) So I'm not sure why his character's WIFE couldn't have wrinkles.
DeleteAs far as the father/son story, IMHO just a cheap screenwriting shortcut to imply gravity in a relationship that had none because we didn't see any of it. So if they want to NOT do the same thing with the mother/son relationship, I'm okay with that. They've done the cheap screenwriting shortcut to telling us ANGST! instead of legitimately showing us angst twice already (H/L being estranged, Kylo having daddy issues), so if they don't want to go for a third cheap shortcut, I'm ok with that. Just end this bad and convoluted storyline that didn't work in TFA.
That should say "instead of legitimately showing us the REASONS for the angst"...
DeleteAmen. Thank you.
DeleteArticle by our beloved Jen Heddle on Bloodline, mentions Han/Leia: http://www.starwars.com/news/8-reasons-star-wars-bloodline-will-be-essential-reading?cmp=smc%7C448013539&linkId=23885603
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ReplyDeleteSo apparently Bloodline really messes with what most people thought was the established timeline. Apparently Ben did not go away to train with Luke until he was 18 and Snoke isn't even in the picture yet. I always thought the TFA novelization made it sound like Snoke was watching over Ben since he was a baby, Leia knew about it and hid it from Han, and Ben started going Dark as a child so Leia sent him to Luke, causing Ben to feel abandoned by his parents. So now it seems like Leia was not concerned about Ben going Dark, Ben had a normal childhood, and then Ben went to Jedi College at 18? This backstory is much less sympathetic to Kylo than a lot of people expected - Most fans (well especially the Reylo ones) thought Ben was brainwashed by Snoke from a young age and when Han and Leia sent Ben off as a kid he felt abandoned, not that he made the decision to go Dark as a fully grown adult. I wonder where Snoke is at this point and how he eventually makes contact with Ben.....
ReplyDeleteAnd since the part about Leia telling Han Snoke was watching Ben since he was a baby was cut out of the movie, maybe it's no longer canon in the timeline - Pablo says if there's a contradiction between the novelization and movie then the movie trumps. So maybe he WAS watching him from afar, like through the news holovids, but he wasn't actually in his head or anything and didn't make contact with hi until Ben was 23. The Reylo fans are going to riot if that's the case :p
Full spoilers for Bloodline, proceed at your own risk:
ReplyDeletehttp://reylooo.tumblr.com/post/143514072983/book-review-bloodline-by-claudia-gray
These spoilers sound a lot less positive than everything else I've read. No mention of how old Ben was when he went to train? Han and Leia decided early in their marriage to live apart because of constant bickering? What the hell is that crap? Didn't someone say they were together at the end, fighting side by side? Wasn't she making plans to retire and go flying around the galaxy with her husband?
DeleteThis post seems to come from the demented mind of a Reylo shipper, so it could be all sort of skewed by the fact that if you're a Reylo shipper you idolize a patricidal school shooter, but once again...it's put me on the "ok, I'm out" side of the fence until someone on this board actually gets their hands on the full book and reads it.
Oh, and Leia NOT having disclosed to Ben that Vader was her father? Utterly out of character. Nothing about OT Leia would make me believe that she would not find a way to impart that information as gently as possible as her child grew and became able to process it. That's just stupid. It's like a 23-year-old kid not knowing that he's adopted.
DeleteI totally agree not telling Ben is ridiculous. You think someone would have told him when he was finally an adult. Or something.
DeleteJust read that. And now I'm back to being 100% OUT on this. So basically Han and Leia have one of those sham "in name only" marriages and hook up sometimes but don't actually have a life TOGETHER because they can't stand to spend too much time together. Yeah, never mind, no thanks.
DeleteThat's probably most of Hollywood's idea of a perfect marriage, so...not surprised.
DeleteYeah, I'd take that person's interpretation of it with a grain of salt since they're a hardcore Reylo shipper. From what I understand, they are apart often due to work not because they fight all the time. Just like Bantam had them.
DeleteAgreed w/ Ewokkey, it sounds like Reylo spin on what's likely a situation similar to the Legends books, only H and L are mature, honest adults about the situation — they both have jobs that they love but unfortunately those jobs keep them apart for stretches of time. Neither is willing to sacrifice their jobs for the other, so they deal. That's basically my (very real and not sham at all) marriage. Anyway, we'll see next week.
DeleteAccording to a H/L fan who has the book, the part about them deciding to live separately because they bicker too much isn't in the book at all, it's just the Reylo fans anti H/L spin on things. There is nothing in the book about that. Only that Han is often gone for work because his job requires a lot of travel.
DeleteI'll let that fan (she's a member of the blog) go into more detail, but you don't have to worry about that.
Ewokkey did a lot of work in getting us information about Bloodline, so please give her a lot of thanks.
DeleteWell these inconsistencies happen when you are trying to backtrack.
ReplyDeleteI've given up on consistency since the movie which shall not be named and since the new character guide which just came out says that my hero Artoo has grown taller (He is now 1.05 meters tall after years and years of being 0.96 meters tall)
ReplyDeleteWHAT? How could they do such a thing?!?!
DeleteAnd some new leaked pages from some new book Disney wants us all to buy (can you see how little attention I paid) says that Han is 5"11". Now, I'm sure Harrison Ford has shrunk a little with age, but Han Solo was 6'1" in all the old stuff from the OT era. I guess this is an attempt to deal with the fact that Non Solo looks to be about 5'6".
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