Friday, December 11, 2015

The Spoiler Comments Post

All right, guys. I'm a little reluctant to do this because I'm afraid you'll start alluding to things you write here in comments sections on other posts, but I'm also afraid that if I don't do this you're just going to say too much when I don't want to read about it. So use the comments section of this post to discuss spoilers of any kind. Those of you, like myself, who wish to remain in the dark for six more days, just don't click to read the comments.

Be nice to each other, since I can't moderate anything and read what you are saying. And again contain all of your spoiler comments to THIS THREAD. Do not mention any discussions going on here on any other post. Keep it contained.

I'll be interested to read this in another week.

378 comments:

  1. You won't see it for a week, but a big thank you to Zyra for giving is this space. OK, here goes.

    I saw the children's book spoilers (on this site, so maybe I didn't see all of them) and I'll admit it looks bad for H/L still being together. Han should absolutely know where the Resistance base is, and in fact it occurred to me last night, why did Han take the saber to Maz first instead of to Leia, since Han would presumably know that Leia is looking for it? If he and Leia are broken up, it makes sense that he takes it to Maz and not to Leia.

    Then again, it could work that Han simply used his own judgement and decided that Maz might be able to decode the info in the saber so he decided to take it to her first.

    There is one thing that is giving me a glimmer of hope: JJ's (well-earned) reputation for being obsessed with secrecy and surprising the audience. Including an especially secret identities and surprise relationship twists. Think John Harrison/Khan and Carol Wallace/Marcus in STID, and the fact that both of them have a secret relationship with Admiral Marcus.

    So in that vein, I could see JJ doing a story where he tries to keep the audience completely in the dark about the H/L relationship (which also helps hide the fact that they ever had children together) until halfway through the movie. So for the first half of the movie we get single-guy Han who seemingly has nothing to do with Leia or the Resistance, and random scavenger Rey who seemingly is not related to anybody. Then about halfway through the movie we get a series of "shocking" twists as we find out that Han and Leia did get married after all, and their two children are Rey and Kylo. The first half of the movie would have to feature character who are either completely clueless (Rey) or lying their butts off (Han) but this seems like a very Abrahmsian kind of storyline. In this scenario H/L could still very well be a couple.

    That said, it's probably for the best to brace for H/L being broken up. Better to go in with low expectations and be pleasantly surprised, than to go in with high hopes and be crushed.

    Story-wise, it's hard to think what a H/L estrangement adds to the narrative. My best guess is 1) it increases the stakes for Han, and 2) it emphasizes how things have been very tough for our heroes ever since the massacre.

    But on point #1, it really DOESN'T increase the stakes -- because the stakes now are all about the children. Trying to save Rey and maybe even trying to save Kylo. Adding an estrangement (along with a blink-and-you-missed-it reconciliation right before Han dies) just clutters up the narrative, where there is already a ton of big drama anyway. On the second point, it just seems totally unnecessary. We already get that times have been tough for the OT characters.

    And besides cluttering up the narrative, an estrangement would also undermine the love story of Rey's parents (and yes, I am still absolutely convinced H/L are Rey's parents). Rey is the main character and a mythic hero. In mythology and fairy tales, heroes are usually born from True Love. It's the villains who are usually born from weak or broken relationships.

    So it just seems like the minuses of breaking them up outweigh the pluses, even taking my fangirl bias into account.

    As for H/L being on the poster together -- yeah, that definitely says Disney/LFL wants the fans to think of H/L as a couple. Maybe that is only because they are the parents of Rey and Kylo, but I still have hope it might mean more.

    I can't help thinking that if it had been up to JJ, he would have put Han and Leia at opposite ends of the poster so they had nothing to do with each other. There is so much I admire about JJ, but his obsession with fooling the audience is bonkers.

    -LLB

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This blog keeps eating my posts when I post in the direct discussion, so I'm going to try replying to yours:

      Okay, for those who want spoilers on whether Han and Leia are together or not, here they are:



      They are confirmed to be divorced/separated in the new movie. This is confirmed by multiple reliable sources who accurately predicted very specific things before they were known to the public - Gwendoline Christie being a silver storm trooper, 3PO having a red arm, BB-8 being an orange droid ball, etc. It does appear they settled down, got married and had a son shortly after ROTJ. There is a flashback scene about 10 years post Jedi which shows Han and Leia dropping Kylo off at his Uncle Luke's to be trained as a Jedi. The Jedi Academy is then attacked by the Knights of Ren and Kylo is kidnapped. Luke goes into exile and Han/Leia divorce/separate soon after, presumably from the anguish of losing their son.




      It does appear that they begin the process of reconciling when they run into each other in TFA after not seeing each other for about 15-20 years. They share a tender moment in Leia's private quarters and later Han tells Leia he will hurry back to her after he rescues Rey and they share a hug (seen in the trailer). Unfortunately as we know Han doesn't come back from the rescue as he is killed by Kylo so we are left with what could have been.



      Here are the sources who confirmed Han and Leia are not together, so you can see that they are reliable sources and not just random trolls on the Internet - http://makingstarwars.net/2014/06/possessive/ This one says that Gwendoline Christie is a stormtrooper with silver armor, long before her character information and official publicity stills came out. Another one which predicted specific things like 3PO having a red arm, Maz's pub scene with aliens, and a bunch of other stuff that wasn't released to the public at the time he wrote this - https://m.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/39pskx/i_worked_on_production/. Another one http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2014/09/new-star-wars-episode-7-leaks-plot-rumors.html This guy who seems to have gotten most of the broad strokes of the plotline before it was officially released also says they're not together.

      Delete
    2. MSW's outline http://makingstarwars.net/2015/05/a-compiled-synopsis-of-star-wars-the-force-awakens/ and the leaked shooting schedule http://millenniumfalcon.com/ do not come outright and say that Han and Leia are not together, but the information provided paints a picture that they are not together or at least not in communication with each other. Rey tells Han she knows something about Luke Skywalker and Han is intrigued because Luke has been missing for years. He does not take Rey and Finn to Leia, but Maz's castle. At Maz's castle, Maz tells Han she doesn't see much of Leia these days - that would seem to suggest that Han doesn't know where Leia is and has to ask Maz. Leia sends a spy to Maz's castle to find the lightsaber - again, that would suggest that Leia is not in contact with Han otherwise she wouldn't need to send a spy to where Han is. When Han and Leia run into each other it is described as "awkward". Now again, that could have a lot of different interpretations, but with everything else that we know, it fits the picture of them being estranged.



      More detail here on Han and Maz's discussion and Han and Leia's meeting: http://makingstarwars.net/2015/07/star-wars-the-force-awakens-and-the-happenings-at-kanatas-castle-part-1/

      http://makingstarwars.net/2015/07/star-wars-the-force-awakens-and-the-happening-at-kanatas-castle-part-2/



      For those who are not familiar with MSW's outline, it's basically accurately predicted every single official plotline that's been revealed to the public. The new children's book that came out is a play by play of the MSW outline exactly.


      Now, the GOOD news is we didn't get worst case scenario like some people were predicting. The MW leaked shooting schedule shows Han and Leia dropping their son Kylo Solo off to be trained - we don't know how old he is but I can't imagine him being younger than 10. So it appears that they did settle down, get married (come on it's Disney, they're not going to have them together for 10 years with a son without being married), start a family and live a happy life until the massacre at the Jedi Academy happens. That's a much better scenario than what some people were predicting with Han knocking Leia up and leaving her pregnant and then running off to be a smuggler because he couldn't handle commitment. It appears now that if they get divorced/separated it is due to the anguish of having a son go missing or presumed dead. Perhaps Han wanted to search the galaxy to find his son after he was abducted while Leia threw herself into her work.

      The other semi-good news is that Han and Leia both appear to be miserable without one another, which reinforces the belief that they ARE soulmates and each other's true loves, their relationship just couldn't handle what happened to their son. Han is not with anyone romantically and the MSW outline describes him as being sad, bitter and spending a lot of time in bars. Leia is described as "heartbroken" by ew and solitary. I'm just glad they didn't do something stupid like try to remarry Leia or pair Han off with some younger love interest, blech. Though poor Han has a really tough time of it if he has spent the last 15 years heartbroken and lonely and then dies at the end of the movie.

      - Ewokkey

      Delete
    3. I hope the Han and Leia scenes are fleshed out a lot more than what we see in the outline - they have a LOT of ground to cover when they meet up with each other again. Han has to tell Leia that Kylo is actually alive (I'm guessing they both presumed he was dead) and an evil Dark Lord, who Rey and Finn are (still not clear from outline on who Rey is related to), convince her to save Rey, tell he he has Luke's lightsaber, Leia has to tell Han about her new superweapon and the Resistance's plans, Han has to convince her NOT to use her superweapon because Rey is still on the planet, AND then on top of that they have to start a reconcilliation before he leaves to die.

      I disagree that the estrangement plotline was the best for the plot for this reason - it makes the storyline too cluttered when Han and Leia meet up again AND it really screws over the poor Han/Leia fans that they just start to reconcile right before Han dies! I think the reason JJ Abrams, Kasdan and Harrison Ford wanted it was because it essentially reverts Han Solo back to his most popular form - when we meet him in ANH as a solo wisecracking smuggler. Harrison has made it clear he wasn't crazy about how Han was portrayed in Jedi with not much to do other than be Leia's love interest. Separating Han and Leia gives them an excuse to return Han Solo to his roots, which I think is kind of a lazy way out. I think JJ Abrams and Kasdan also wanted to recreate Han and Leia when they were at their most popular - aka ESB where they were at odds but slowly came around to admitting their feelings for each other. Basically it sounds like the new film is a rehash where they will be at odds with each other when they first meet and then reconcile over the few scenes they have together.

      Delete
    4. Those three posts above are all me, I just had to split it up bc this blog kept deleting my posts when they were too long.

      - Ewokkey

      Delete
    5. I was on imdb at the time that guy who predicted Gwendoline Christie was going to play a silver stormtrooper was around. At the time of course we had no idea if he was a troll or a reliable source but now that we know Gwendoline Christie did turn out to be playing a silver stormtrooper that he was a reliable source. He also said that he saw Finn holding a helmet with a bloody handprint - same image we saw in the trailers. He later deleted all his posts, probably on order by Disney. I remember him saying that when Han and Leia meet up in the film, it's the first time they've seen each other in 20 years. But he said it wasn't clear if they got around to divorcing or if they were just separated. He said he watched a scene where Han says to Finn (when he is explaining that Kylo is their son): "I haven't seen Leia in 20 years."

      - R

      Delete
    6. To Ewokkey -- I don't think the MSW outline is gospel. IMO, the broad strokes are likely correct, but many of the details could be off. We know there were significant rewrites, plus there were likely some reshoots and pickup shots, plus a lot can change in the editing room. I expect MSW's outline will end up being around 80% correct, but that leaves a lot of room for noteworthy changes.

      To R -- I used to surf the imdb forums, too. I recall plaid harvest and Mr. Ghostface Lives, but I don't recall either one of them ever saying something like that.

      In any event, I'll just say that 20 years seems a bit much. Rey is probably around 20 years old. We know she was five when she got separated from her family (presumably during the massacre). So when TFA opens it's probably been 15 years since that happened. This would have to mean H/L were broken up BEFORE the massacre, and their break-up had nothing to do with losing their child(ren). It would make the plot even more convoluted and soapy (H/L break up, then Kylo goes bad, then their daughter is stolen from them and presumed dead in the massacre, or worse yet. Han leaves Leia and doesn't know she's pregnant, and then the daughter Han doesn't even know he had gets taken and presumed dead, yadda yadda). It's too much.

      What I could see, unfortunately, is a story where H/L break up very soon after the massacre -- as a direct result of losing their daughter (and perhaps their son, too, it's still unclear what exactly they know about Kylo at the time of TFA). And they don't see each other again until the events of the movie. That keeps the narrative much more simple and keeps the massacre as the crucial tipping point. But that would be a separation of 15 years, unless they make Rey 25 years old, which I doubt.

      -LLB

      Delete
    7. I think it is obvious from the reliable spoilers that have leaked that they are no longer together physically and are living separate lives. The question is why, how long, and how broken up are they. From the information about Han and Leia dropping Kylo off at Luke's Jedi Academy and then the massacre happening, I think the most logical assumption is that they broke up soon after that. BUT I am thinking that they didn't split up because they don't love each other any more, but their lives just took different directions to deal with the grief of losing their child (children?) Leia threw herself into the Resistance. Han got disillusioned and bitter and didn't want to be involved in the Resistance any longer. Maybe Han left to search the galaxy to find Kylo and Leia had given up hope, so Han went off with Chewie on his own. So they became physically separated from each other, but never stopped loving each other.

      I can see why JJ Abrams and Kasdan did it for dramatic narrative purposes but I don't have to like it. Han Solo was always the most popular when he was tough-talking, Han shoots first, loner smuggler Han in ANH, not dopey-eyed comic relief sidekick Han in ROTJ. I get that, I see the appeal of wanting to return Han to his ANH personality to attract the male fans. Han and Leia were their most popular when they were arguing and denying their feelings for each other in ESB, not so much happy in love Han and Leia in ROTJ. I get wanting to try to pay tribute to that onscreen by repeating their ESB story line of them being at odds but then reconciling.

      BUT I agree with LLB that the story line is already WAY too cluttered with everything going on with their kids and the Resistance. Han and Leia already have plenty of reason to be at odds with each other without an estrangement thrown in the mix. Leia wants to destroy Starkiller base with Kylo Solo on it, Han seems to think Kylo is worth saving. Leia also at first doesn't care that Rey is on Starkiller Base and is willing to sacrifice her for the greater good, until Han convinces her otherwise. Plenty of room for conflict without an estrangement in there. According to the MW script, they only have about 3 scenes together in the middle of the movie. I just don't see how they're going to get through "Hey Leia, nice seeing you after years apart - By the way, our son we thought was dead/kidnapped is actually evil and part of the First Order, also our daughter/niece got kidnapped by him, no - please don't use your superweapon on Starkiller base, we need to rescue Rey and Kylo might be worth saving...also, how about we reconcile after years and years apart?" I guess I'll reserve judgment until I see it. Someone was saying Harrison and Carrie can do a lot with their eyes instead of words, so it's possible that we won't actually see them say something like "I'm sorry for all those years we spent apart, I still love you" but with their eyes and body language it'll be clear that they still love each other.

      - K

      Delete
    8. I am also glad that it seems like circumstances beyond their control broke them up, not because they couldn't make it work as a couple or didn't love each other. I got so tired of arguing with people on the JC that "Han was never the settling down type, Leia was always more committed to the cause than Han, of course they would never work." People seem to forget that both of them had changed by ROTJ and Leia found something more than the cause, and Han discovered his love of Leia and friends was more important than himself. The fact that there's a flashback showing Han and Leia dropping Kylo off at Luke's shows that Han did settle down and marry Leia and start a family with her. I think if they are broken up, the Jedi massacre forced them to split up and it'll be clear when they reunite in the movie that they still love each other after all these years.

      - K

      Delete
    9. LLB - Yes, JJ Abrams is notorious for being cagey with the audience - like his Benedict is NOT Khan! debacle. That's why I'm not taking any stock in his declaration that Rey was written to be any race. I think he said that to throw off speculation that she was a Solo/Skywalker.

      In the MW shooting script though, isn't the flashback at Maz's pretty early on in Han's scenes? The flashback reveals that Han and Leia were married and had Kylo together. Would it still be a twist if the audience knew Han and Leia got married at some point and had Kylo in the beginning of the movie, and then found out midway through the movie that they were still together?

      - K

      Delete
    10. Yeah, I can see why JJ Abrams and Kasdan made the decision to split them up. As a H/L fan, I don't like it. As a filmmaker, it gives their scenes dramatic tension and also lets them rehash the popular ESB I hate you/I love you scenario. Also, if the plan was always to make Han a lead role and Leia not with him (I love Carrie, but I'm not sure she could handle a lead role these days), it makes logical sense to separate them so Han can be off on his own during the movie.

      In interviews with JJ Abrams, it's pretty clear he is a Han fanboy and like most male fans, he's a fan of ANH era scoundrel Han. Splitting him up from Leia is an excuse to return him to that. And let's face it, single Han is infinitely more interesting than happily married Han tied down with responsibilities (remember househusband Han in the EU and how dull he was?) Hollywood always seems to have something against happy couples anyway. Joss Whedon, for example, always either splits up or kills a couple when they're the happiest just for the sake of a dramatic story line and character development.

      I don't necessarily like it, but I will be satisfied if they get a scene where they're mad at each other, and then share a romantic reconciliation scene before Han goes off to die.

      Delete
    11. My theory is that in the flashback scene where Han and Leia drop Kylo off, we will see Leia is pregnant. I think Kylo will be around 10 when he gets dropped off, then 15 when he either gets kidnapped or participates in the slaughter of the Jedi Academy when Rey is 5. If he is a participant in the slaughter, could this be what drove Han and Leia apart? Maybe Han wanted to find his son to redeem him and Leia gave up hope and wrote him off.

      What bugs me about the flashback scene is that it seems like Luke doesn't even bother to tell Han and Leia that their son is gone, he just goes into exile right away. What the hell, Luke?!

      Delete
  2. I am intrigued. I still think it is Chewie that does on not Han. I keep thinking back to Chewie's life debt that he owes to Han. Every time I see the trailer I see long hair and his bandolier. I am saving a glimmer of hope that it isn't in fact Han who dies and that that rumour was spread purposefully to make fans panic just a smidge. A girl can hope, right

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That was supposed to say "that dies".

      Delete
    2. Gotcha. Until the movie premieres anything is possible. We know there were a lot of rewrites when Harrison broke his leg. I personally believe that Han does die. And (I'm in the extreme minority on this, and everybody seems to think it's Finn) but I believe that is Han's body Rey is crying over in the trailer. And that IS Chewie we see on the right. It makes total sense to me that Chewie would also run over to Han's body after he is struck down.

      -LLB

      Delete
    3. Of course, anything is definitely possible. I hate to imagine Leia in Episodes 8 and 9 completely miserable over losing Han entirely. My husband believes Han is and always was a force user and that he will make a "reappearance" just as Obi-Wan does in ESB and ROTJ - haha

      Delete
    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    5. There was an interview with JJ Abrams recently about Harrison Ford and he revealed that Harrison had a lot of input in the script and dialogue, just like in ESB with Kershner and that he was very involved in reworking some of the Han dialogue to sound more like "Han". So stuff definitely got rewritten after the shooting script. I'm sort of skeptical about whether major plot points like Han dying or Han and Leia not being separated could be reworked during the shooting process though, as that would require a major overhaul of the script. Who knows though, right? Maybe Carrie had some input and insisted Han and Leia get some more romantic time - she's been tweeting a ton of Han & Leia stuff lately.

      - K

      Delete
    6. I think Carrie is trying to soften the blow with all her Han and Leia tweets.

      -P

      Delete
  3. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  4. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  6. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  7. P.S. I just thought of a motive for Han to lie and pretend he has nothing to do with the Resistance when he really does. Finn. Han finds out that Finn is a former stormtrooper, and it takes Han a long time to overcome his natural suspicions and realize that Finn can indeed be trusted. It would also explain why Han goes to Maz instead of Leia -- Han is reluctant to bring an erstwhile stormtrooper to Leia's home base until he's had a chance to evaluate the young man.

    Sorry for the typos above. Gotta proofread more.

    -LLB

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    2. It's a children's book, and therefore extremely simplified. If Han is posing as someone who is no longer part of the Resistance (again, this would be typical Abrams) then a children's book isn't going to make that distinction.

      Plus which, why does Han have Resistance code cylinders in his jacket?

      That said, maybe you're right and they are broken up. Who knows?

      -LLB

      Delete
  8. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  9. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Okay, for those who want spoilers on whether Han and Leia are together or not, here they are:

    They are confirmed to be divorced/separated in the new movie. This is confirmed by multiple reliable sources who accurately predicted very specific things before they were known to the public - Gwendoline Christie being a silver storm trooper, 3PO having a red arm, BB-8 being an orange droid ball, etc. It does appear they settled down, got married and had a son shortly after ROTJ. There is a flashback scene about 10 years post Jedi which shows Han and Leia dropping Kylo off at his Uncle Luke's to be trained as a Jedi. The Jedi Academy is then attacked by the Knights of Ren and Kylo is kidnapped. Luke goes into exile and Han/Leia divorce/separate soon after, presumably from the anguish of losing their son.

    It does appear that they begin the process of reconciling when they run into each other in TFA after not seeing each other for about 15-20 years. They share a tender moment in Leia's private quarters and later Han tells Leia he will hurry back to her after he rescues Rey and they share a hug (seen in the trailer). Unfortunately as we know Han doesn't come back from the rescue as he is killed by Kylo so we are left with what could have been.

    Here are the sources who confirmed Han and Leia are not together, so you can see that they are reliable sources and not just random trolls on the Internet - http://makingstarwars.net/2014/06/possessive/ This one says that Gwendoline Christie is a stormtrooper with silver armor, long before her character information and official publicity stills came out. Another one which predicted specific things like 3PO having a red arm, Maz's pub scene with aliens, and a bunch of other stuff that wasn't released to the public at the time he wrote this - https://m.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/39pskx/i_worked_on_production/. Another one http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2014/09/new-star-wars-episode-7-leaks-plot-rumors.html This guy who seems to have gotten most of the broad strokes of the plotline before it was officially released also says they're not together.

    MSW's outline http://makingstarwars.net/2015/05/a-compiled-synopsis-of-star-wars-the-force-awakens/ and the leaked shooting schedule http://millenniumfalcon.com/ do not come outright and say that Han and Leia are not together, but the information provided paints a picture that they are not together or at least not in communication with each other. Rey tells Han she knows something about Luke Skywalker and Han is intrigued because Luke has been missing for years. He does not take Rey and Finn to Leia, but Maz's castle. At Maz's castle, Maz tells Han she doesn't see much of Leia these days - that would seem to suggest that Han doesn't know where Leia is and has to ask Maz. Leia sends a spy to Maz's castle to find the lightsaber - again, that would suggest that Leia is not in contact with Han otherwise she wouldn't need to send a spy to where Han is. When Han and Leia run into each other it is described as "awkward". Now again, that could have a lot of different interpretations, but with everything else that we know, it fits the picture of them being estranged.

    More detail here on Han and Maz's discussion and Han and Leia's meeting: http://makingstarwars.net/2015/07/star-wars-the-force-awakens-and-the-happenings-at-kanatas-castle-part-1/
    http://makingstarwars.net/2015/07/star-wars-the-force-awakens-and-the-happening-at-kanatas-castle-part-2/

    For those who are not familiar with MSW's outline, it's basically accurately predicted every single official plotline that's been revealed to the public. The new children's book that came out is a play by play of the MSW outline exactly.

    - Ewokkey

    ReplyDelete
  11. My post KEEPS getting eaten and this is extremely frustrating. Trying again for the fifth time:

    Okay, for those who want spoilers on whether Han and Leia are together or not, here they are:



    They are confirmed to be divorced/separated in the new movie. This is confirmed by multiple reliable sources who accurately predicted very specific things before they were known to the public - Gwendoline Christie being a silver storm trooper, 3PO having a red arm, BB-8 being an orange droid ball, etc. It does appear they settled down, got married and had a son shortly after ROTJ. There is a flashback scene about 10 years post Jedi which shows Han and Leia dropping Kylo off at his Uncle Luke's to be trained as a Jedi. The Jedi Academy is then attacked by the Knights of Ren and Kylo is kidnapped. Luke goes into exile and Han/Leia divorce/separate soon after, presumably from the anguish of losing their son.




    It does appear that they begin the process of reconciling when they run into each other in TFA after not seeing each other for about 15-20 years. They share a tender moment in Leia's private quarters and later Han tells Leia he will hurry back to her after he rescues Rey and they share a hug (seen in the trailer). Unfortunately as we know Han doesn't come back from the rescue as he is killed by Kylo so we are left with what could have been.



    Here are the sources who confirmed Han and Leia are not together, so you can see that they are reliable sources and not just random trolls on the Internet - http://makingstarwars.net/2014/06/possessive/ This one says that Gwendoline Christie is a stormtrooper with silver armor, long before her character information and official publicity stills came out. Another one which predicted specific things like 3PO having a red arm, Maz's pub scene with aliens, and a bunch of other stuff that wasn't released to the public at the time he wrote this - https://m.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/39pskx/i_worked_on_production/. Another one http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2014/09/new-star-wars-episode-7-leaks-plot-rumors.html This guy who seems to have gotten most of the broad strokes of the plotline before it was officially released also says they're not together.



    MSW's outline http://makingstarwars.net/2015/05/a-compiled-synopsis-of-star-wars-the-force-awakens/ and the leaked shooting schedule http://millenniumfalcon.com/ do not come outright and say that Han and Leia are not together, but the information provided paints a picture that they are not together or at least not in communication with each other. Rey tells Han she knows something about Luke Skywalker and Han is intrigued because Luke has been missing for years. He does not take Rey and Finn to Leia, but Maz's castle. At Maz's castle, Maz tells Han she doesn't see much of Leia these days - that would seem to suggest that Han doesn't know where Leia is and has to ask Maz. Leia sends a spy to Maz's castle to find the lightsaber - again, that would suggest that Leia is not in contact with Han otherwise she wouldn't need to send a spy to where Han is. When Han and Leia run into each other it is described as "awkward". Now again, that could have a lot of different interpretations, but with everything else that we know, it fits the picture of them being estranged.



    More detail here on Han and Maz's discussion and Han and Leia's meeting: http://makingstarwars.net/2015/07/star-wars-the-force-awakens-and-the-happenings-at-kanatas-castle-part-1/

    http://makingstarwars.net/2015/07/star-wars-the-force-awakens-and-the-happening-at-kanatas-castle-part-2/



    For those who are not familiar with MSW's outline, it's basically accurately predicted every single official plotline that's been revealed to the public. The new children's book that came out is a play by play of the MSW outline exactly.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Okay, for those who want spoilers on whether Han and Leia are together or not, here they are:



    They are confirmed to be divorced/separated in the new movie. This is confirmed by multiple reliable sources who accurately predicted very specific things before they were known to the public - Gwendoline Christie being a silver storm trooper, 3PO having a red arm, BB-8 being an orange droid ball, etc. It does appear they settled down, got married and had a son shortly after ROTJ. There is a flashback scene about 10 years post Jedi which shows Han and Leia dropping Kylo off at his Uncle Luke's to be trained as a Jedi. The Jedi Academy is then attacked by the Knights of Ren and Kylo is kidnapped. Luke goes into exile and Han/Leia divorce/separate soon after, presumably from the anguish of losing their son.




    It does appear that they begin the process of reconciling when they run into each other in TFA after not seeing each other for about 15-20 years. They share a tender moment in Leia's private quarters and later Han tells Leia he will hurry back to her after he rescues Rey and they share a hug (seen in the trailer). Unfortunately as we know Han doesn't come back from the rescue as he is killed by Kylo so we are left with what could have been.



    Here are the sources who confirmed Han and Leia are not together, so you can see that they are reliable sources and not just random trolls on the Internet - http://makingstarwars.net/2014/06/possessive/ This one says that Gwendoline Christie is a stormtrooper with silver armor, long before her character information and official publicity stills came out. Another one which predicted specific things like 3PO having a red arm, Maz's pub scene with aliens, and a bunch of other stuff that wasn't released to the public at the time he wrote this - https://m.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/39pskx/i_worked_on_production/. Another one http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2014/09/new-star-wars-episode-7-leaks-plot-rumors.html This guy who seems to have gotten most of the broad strokes of the plotline before it was officially released also says they're not together.



    MSW's outline http://makingstarwars.net/2015/05/a-compiled-synopsis-of-star-wars-the-force-awakens/ and the leaked shooting schedule http://millenniumfalcon.com/ do not come outright and say that Han and Leia are not together, but the information provided paints a picture that they are not together or at least not in communication with each other. Rey tells Han she knows something about Luke Skywalker and Han is intrigued because Luke has been missing for years. He does not take Rey and Finn to Leia, but Maz's castle. At Maz's castle, Maz tells Han she doesn't see much of Leia these days - that would seem to suggest that Han doesn't know where Leia is and has to ask Maz. Leia sends a spy to Maz's castle to find the lightsaber - again, that would suggest that Leia is not in contact with Han otherwise she wouldn't need to send a spy to where Han is. When Han and Leia run into each other it is described as "awkward". Now again, that could have a lot of different interpretations, but with everything else that we know, it fits the picture of them being estranged.



    More detail here on Han and Maz's discussion and Han and Leia's meeting: http://makingstarwars.net/2015/07/star-wars-the-force-awakens-and-the-happenings-at-kanatas-castle-part-1/

    http://makingstarwars.net/2015/07/star-wars-the-force-awakens-and-the-happening-at-kanatas-castle-part-2/



    For those who are not familiar with MSW's outline, it's basically accurately predicted every single official plotline that's been revealed to the public. The new children's book that came out is a play by play of the MSW outline exactly.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. *sigh* - Well, I guess I can live with that. As long as they've reconciled and revealed their undying love despite so many years apart by the end of the movie, I'll deal.

      Delete
  13. This is like the 10th time I've posted this..anyone else having trouble with their posts getting eaten?

    Okay, for those who want spoilers on whether Han and Leia are together or not, here they are:



    They are confirmed to be divorced/separated in the new movie. This is confirmed by multiple reliable sources who accurately predicted very specific things before they were known to the public - Gwendoline Christie being a silver storm trooper, 3PO having a red arm, BB-8 being an orange droid ball, etc. It does appear they settled down, got married and had a son shortly after ROTJ. There is a flashback scene about 10 years post Jedi which shows Han and Leia dropping Kylo off at his Uncle Luke's to be trained as a Jedi. The Jedi Academy is then attacked by the Knights of Ren and Kylo is kidnapped. Luke goes into exile and Han/Leia divorce/separate soon after, presumably from the anguish of losing their son.




    It does appear that they begin the process of reconciling when they run into each other in TFA after not seeing each other for about 15-20 years. They share a tender moment in Leia's private quarters and later Han tells Leia he will hurry back to her after he rescues Rey and they share a hug (seen in the trailer). Unfortunately as we know Han doesn't come back from the rescue as he is killed by Kylo so we are left with what could have been.



    Here are the sources who confirmed Han and Leia are not together, so you can see that they are reliable sources and not just random trolls on the Internet - http://makingstarwars.net/2014/06/possessive/ This one says that Gwendoline Christie is a stormtrooper with silver armor, long before her character information and official publicity stills came out. Another one which predicted specific things like 3PO having a red arm, Maz's pub scene with aliens, and a bunch of other stuff that wasn't released to the public at the time he wrote this - https://m.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/39pskx/i_worked_on_production/. Another one http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2014/09/new-star-wars-episode-7-leaks-plot-rumors.html This guy who seems to have gotten most of the broad strokes of the plotline before it was officially released also says they're not together.



    MSW's outline http://makingstarwars.net/2015/05/a-compiled-synopsis-of-star-wars-the-force-awakens/ and the leaked shooting schedule http://millenniumfalcon.com/ do not come outright and say that Han and Leia are not together, but the information provided paints a picture that they are not together or at least not in communication with each other. Rey tells Han she knows something about Luke Skywalker and Han is intrigued because Luke has been missing for years. He does not take Rey and Finn to Leia, but Maz's castle. At Maz's castle, Maz tells Han she doesn't see much of Leia these days - that would seem to suggest that Han doesn't know where Leia is and has to ask Maz. Leia sends a spy to Maz's castle to find the lightsaber - again, that would suggest that Leia is not in contact with Han otherwise she wouldn't need to send a spy to where Han is. When Han and Leia run into each other it is described as "awkward". Now again, that could have a lot of different interpretations, but with everything else that we know, it fits the picture of them being estranged.



    More detail here on Han and Maz's discussion and Han and Leia's meeting: http://makingstarwars.net/2015/07/star-wars-the-force-awakens-and-the-happenings-at-kanatas-castle-part-1/

    http://makingstarwars.net/2015/07/star-wars-the-force-awakens-and-the-happening-at-kanatas-castle-part-2/



    For those who are not familiar with MSW's outline, it's basically accurately predicted every single official plotline that's been revealed to the public. The new children's book that came out is a play by play of the MSW outline exactly.

    ReplyDelete
  14. This blog keeps eating my posts, so I'm going to try to split them up in case it's eating them because they're too long:

    Okay, for those who want spoilers on whether Han and Leia are together or not, here they are:



    They are confirmed to be divorced/separated in the new movie. This is confirmed by multiple reliable sources who accurately predicted very specific things before they were known to the public - Gwendoline Christie being a silver storm trooper, 3PO having a red arm, BB-8 being an orange droid ball, etc. It does appear they settled down, got married and had a son shortly after ROTJ. There is a flashback scene about 10 years post Jedi which shows Han and Leia dropping Kylo off at his Uncle Luke's to be trained as a Jedi. The Jedi Academy is then attacked by the Knights of Ren and Kylo is kidnapped. Luke goes into exile and Han/Leia divorce/separate soon after, presumably from the anguish of losing their son.




    It does appear that they begin the process of reconciling when they run into each other in TFA after not seeing each other for about 15-20 years. They share a tender moment in Leia's private quarters and later Han tells Leia he will hurry back to her after he rescues Rey and they share a hug (seen in the trailer). Unfortunately as we know Han doesn't come back from the rescue as he is killed by Kylo so we are left with what could have been.



    Here are the sources who confirmed Han and Leia are not together, so you can see that they are reliable sources and not just random trolls on the Internet - http://makingstarwars.net/2014/06/possessive/ This one says that Gwendoline Christie is a stormtrooper with silver armor, long before her character information and official publicity stills came out. Another one which predicted specific things like 3PO having a red arm, Maz's pub scene with aliens, and a bunch of other stuff that wasn't released to the public at the time he wrote this - https://m.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/39pskx/i_worked_on_production/. Another one http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2014/09/new-star-wars-episode-7-leaks-plot-rumors.html This guy who seems to have gotten most of the broad strokes of the plotline before it was officially released also says they're not together.

    ReplyDelete
  15. I just want to say one more thing about this, and then I'll shut up.

    On the H/L relationship, the truth may lie somewhere in-between. H/L are not officially divorced or separated, but they have drifted apart and have not been spending much time together. They're both unhappy.

    To me, TFA is likely to be heavily influenced by myths and fairy tales. I've compared Rey to both Rapunzel and Sleeping Beauty. The young princess who gets stolen away, as a curse falls over the entire kingdom. The massacre was the tipping point. Before, everything was good. Afterward, nothing is good. The King and Queen cannot be truly happy again after something like that happens. So they don't officially split up, but they drift -- both personally and as a couple.

    Then the princess finds her way back home again, she "wakes up," the force wakes up with her, the curse is lifted, and the story can start working towards a new happily-ever-after.

    Only problem is, the King dies five minutes after he finds his daughter again. :(

    There is going to be some sadness and tragedy in this story, no doubt. I'm just going to try and focus on the positives, whatever they may be.

    -LLB

    ReplyDelete
  16. By the way, super cute Carrie interview here where she alludes to her and Harrison hooking up during the OT:

    http://fuckyeahhanandleia.tumblr.com

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Love her. Very cute, thank you for posting.

      Delete
  17. Wild and crazy speculation to follow! Hehe.

    So, I successfully avoided spoilers until about a month ago when I inadvertently read something revealing (and upsetting) and then promptly lost any claim to virginal, spoiler-free eyes as I pursued more spoilers to refute the original spoiler. At this moment, if MSW and various posters on the the Star Wars Leaks sub-Reddit are correct, I basically know the whole plot to the movie.

    BUT!!! I'm not completely convinced that the leaked shooting list is 100% revealing. As plot points (that is, beats that move the story along and the outline of a narrative arch) it's probably accurate, but I think there's a much richer narrative found between those beats. And too much has been read into the wording of the shot list! Who's to say that H/L's "awkward encounter" isn't awkward for someone ELSE in that scene (or for someone who walks into that scene at an inconvenient moment — looking at you C-3PO!!!). So, with that said, here's my wild and crazy speculation:

    Han and Leia stayed together and started a family after ROTJ (maybe they never legally married, and maybe I think that's kinda sexy). Ten years later they send their son Kylo to train w/ Uncle Luke, and he was promptly kidnapped by the Knights of Ren. (Or maybe his name is Ren and the Knights of... formed around their celebrity capture.) Meanwhile a devastated Han and Leia, who is pregnant with Rey, make the difficult decision to split up (not break up, just literally not physically be together for safety purposes) and hide Rey on Jakku while Han searches the galaxy for Kylo while also keeping a watchful eye on Rey (like Obi-Wan with Luke on Tatooine).

    Even crazier speculation (which I'm not convinced is plausible but might as well publish it here so if it's true I look like a genius) is that Billie Lourd plays a decoy Rey à la Sabé in The Phantom Menace. People saw Leia pregnant w/ Rey, wouldn't it be suspicious if Han takes off around her due date? Wouldn't people start asking "so, like, where's you kid?" and wouldn't the Knights of Ren be looking for another Force powerful Solo kid? So Billie is a non-Force sensitive decoy Rey and the Knights of Ren have no interest in her.

    H/L's awkward encounter is only awkward because A) they haven't seen each other in forever and while the love and passion are still there, they need to break the ice.

    - Anonymoose

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And one more though. Much has been made of the reliability of several sources based on confirmation of VISUAL information they leaked, like Gwendoline Christie being a silver stormtrooper or C-3PO's red arm or BB-8 being a round orange droid. If these sources were directly involved in production, those are easy things for them to see (on set, or in storyboard art, or costume and make-up tests, or prop design and prototyping, etc.), but that doesn't mean they know the significance of those things. Nor does the confirmation of those details automatically mean that those sources' leaks regarding script and story are also correct.

      - Anonymoose

      Delete
    2. The thought of Leia being pregnant with Rey totally crossed my mind too. I like your version way better ;)

      Delete
    3. As in, she being pregnant with Rey at the time of Kylo's abduction and H/L's split.

      Delete
    4. I really like that idea of Billie Lourd being a decoy. That'd be an awesome nod to TPM too...

      I like your theory, because it would mean Han and Leia splitting up was just a physical and not an emotional separation. I could deal with that much better. The only thing though it seems like Han and Rey don't know each other at all when they meet up with each other when the children's book leaks? According to the children's book, Rey tells Han she recognizes his name as a Rebel hero and Han tells her he's not with the Rebellion any more and wants her off his ship (the Falcon). I think if Rey is Han and Leia's kid and she is on Jakku that wasn't where Han and Leia intended her to end up. BUT I could definitely see the latter part of your scenario being true where they split up as Han searches the galaxy for Kylo (and maybe Rey if they think she's missing) while Leia is too involved with her duties to the Resistance to join.

      Awkward can have a lot of different meanings. From the way I read the outline, Han was not expecting Leia to arrive to save them at all. It might just be awkward because they're not expecting to run into each other. Call sheets are hard to interpret because it's just one line describing each scene.

      - K

      Delete
    5. For me, the possibility of Leia being pregnant w/ Rey when Kylo is abducted and either she and Han split to protect her, or Han and Leia break-up w/o Han knowing she's pregnant, makes sense and answers a lot of questions.

      First and foremost, both scenarios provide motivation and justification for abandoning a child. They also bring complexity to OT characters in a way that's directly tied to the backstory and motivations of new characters (and remember, as much ad TFA and potentially VIII and IX are nostalgia sequels, they're also a springboard for a new generation of characters and fans, so storylines that lead nowhere w/ the new generation probably don't take center stage).

      The first scenario also explains their separation without alienating H/L shippers, and also adds an tragic and romantic twist that helps get OT fans emotionally invested in the new characters quite quickly.

      The second scenario helps explain why Han doesn't seem to know Rey. Could Han be pretending he doesn't know her just like Obi-Wan held back in what he shared w/ Luke in ANH? Possibly. But while Obi-Wan was evasive with his knowledge with a flair for semantic obfuscation, Han's reactions seem pretty genuine.

      - Anonymoose

      Delete
  18. Yikes, so sorry for the multiple double postings! I kept trying to post earlier in the day and the blog kept eating my posts every time! Now suddenly all 10 showed up at once. Weird! Anyway, sorry for my one post being posted a million times.

    ReplyDelete
  19. I've read all of the spoilers, and until proven correct in FIVE days, I say that they're baloney! If this movie disappoints me because:

    1) Han and Leia aren't together.

    2) Leia has a very unhappy life.

    3) Han and Leia reunite, and then he dies.

    4) Any combination of the above.

    Then I will no longer be a viewer of Star Wars. Period. After 32 years, we deserve better.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. For those following spoilers, we'll know on Monday. The press is invited to the premiere and they'll be able to start posting about what they saw.

      - K

      Delete
  20. Guys, do you remember when they showed those Force Awakens clips during the ABC Friday night lineup? They had 2 clips emphasizing Han and Leia's relationship.

    One was about the romance in the film, and then showed some clips with Han and Leia's 1st kiss in Empire.

    Then they showed this: iluvkoalas Retweeted
    Tony Goldwyn ‏@tonygoldwyn Nov 13
    Oliva and Fitz… Han and Leia…” #TGITAwakens @starwars

    If their romance wasn't a big part of the film, I don't think that they would've make a big deal of spolighting Han and Leia.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It'll be a significant part of the film. If they weren't separated, probably not much attention would have been paid to it. I'm not sure if this means we should be grateful - some H/L fans seem to think it's preferable that they're separated, otherwise their relationship wouldn't have that much time spent on it in TFA...I'd would rather have seen them happy for the past 30 years personally.

      - K

      Delete
    2. I wouldn't be grateful. Not after 32 years. Sorry...Although I'm seeing the movie, if I spend my hard-earned money to be disappointed after so long, I won't be back for the next films. It's not right. Just talk to all of the Han/Leia fans on twitter. It would be a very bad move.

      Delete
    3. I wonder if most Han/Leia fans will be satisfied if we get a tender scene between them, even if they have been separated for years beforehand. The MSW storyline has a scene where Han convinces Leia that Rey is worth saving in Leia's private quarters. I'm expecting that to be where the "Han and Leia" soundtrack plays. Would you guys be satisfied if we get one good scene between them, even if they've been separated and Han dies afterwards?

      Delete
    4. If I get to hear a few I love yous or "I never stopped loving you" on both their parts and something along the lines of "I need you back in my life" then yes, I could live with that.

      Delete
    5. Assuming they are separated, whatever tender scene they do has to exude some form of closure on their relationship and their love, even if Han dies and he can't go back to her. A well executed scene of them together (again, provided they reiterate that they never stopped loving one another and maybe a little peck on the lips) could provide enough closure for me to help me get over his death.

      Delete
    6. I have listened to their theme in the trailer umpteen times by now and have come to the conclusion that it actually sounds more ominous. I suspect that will be playing during their last embrace before Han leaves to find Rey OR as Rey is crying over his body.

      Delete
  21. I found an old interview by Harrison Ford in Spanish:

    http://www.alfabetajuega.com/noticia/harrison-ford-habla-sobre-la-historia-de-amor-entre-leia-y-han-solo-n-61282

    Here is the literal translation:

    Star Wars fever that we are experiencing, run the risk of becoming hysterical when opening day the first chord of the soundtrack and the characteristic opening credits flooding the screen is heard. There are many theories that have sprung up around the plot of The Awakening of the Force, and there is no doubt that after the premiere, will continue to emerge.

    One character that has attracted most attention, with promotional videos included, it is Han Solo and the actor who plays the character, the great Harrison Ford. In an interview with Good Morning America, the actor was asked about the relationship that we can find between Leia and Han Solo. The actor responded far as he could without falling into spoilers: "They have a much more complex story now in a more emotional context than before. But he's still the same guy, "said the actor. The presenter asked if we could only find a more romantic Han, but the actor replied with a laugh that could no longer count. Certainly this relationship is one of the most beloved axes by fans of the original trilogy, the good thing is that not a lot for us to see, as resolved in Episode VII.

    ReplyDelete
  22. I consider myself about 95% H/L shipper and 5% L/M shipper with a 2% margin of error thanks to FettsOnTop :) Anyway, my occasional dalliance into L/M fic plus this blog's (understandable) preoccupation with H/L's status in TFA got me thinking about all those poor diehard L/M shippers.

    Mara in general is such a huge part of the SW fandom. I've occasionally seen as many Mara Jades as Leias at cons. I know a guy who has a Mara Jade tattoo for sith's sake. And while I'm glad to bid adieu to some EU characters (buh-bye Jacen, Jaina & Anakin... okay, Jaina can stay but only if she's named Rey and her willfulness leans more "strong independent woman" than "brat") it's hard for me to swallow the idea that Disney would completely abandon the $$$ potential behind Mara.

    And while we H/L shippers are worried about the relationship status of our duo, L/M shippers must be facing an outright existential crisis.

    So, my question is, does anyone think Mara will eventually make an appearance? If not to pacify L/M fans, than to give Luke some post-ROTJ character development while simultaneously taking advantage of her popularity from a marketing perspective?

    - Anonymoose

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. JJ Abrams did an interview recently where he said following the EU would tie his hands too much, and that 99% of people who watch the Star Wars movies don't read the books. He did say they would dip into the EU on occasion for things that were already established like planets, species, names, things like that.

      If Rey is Luke's daughter, then some backstory on her mother has to be established. They could insert a Mara Jade like character in there - we know they are casting an older lead actress for Episode VIII and many have speculated it is Rey's mother, but I don't think they will restrict themselves to Luke's wife in the EU.

      Delete
  23. http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/carrie-fisher-on-the-force-awakens-ive-always-been-in-star-wars-20151209

    Great interview with Carrie Fisher where she goes a lot in her relationship with Ford and indirectly confirms they had a thing in ANH.

    - K

    ReplyDelete
  24. I still don't buy this separation thing, and I won't until I see it on film.

    However, this little Harrison Ford interview from The Associated Press on a local CBS site, which seems to be a compilation of some of his interviews, has the new pic of Han and Leia in it. The caption reads, "Harrison Ford as Han Solo and Carrie Fisher as Leia Organa-Solo in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens."

    Take it as you will because Rey's name is spelled Reilly underneath her picture. However, AP is legitimate as is this site.

    http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/12/10/harrison-ford-promises-older-wiser-han-solo-in-the-force-awakens/

    ReplyDelete
  25. However, this article doesn't bode well for us. I don't like it at all. Be prepared, folks:

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2015/12/13/jj-abrams-star-wars-the-force-awakens/76911016/

    ReplyDelete
  26. I knew all along Disney getting its grubby hands on this franchise would spell disaster. And also JJ - he has no love for nostalgia or even for what 99% of fans want. That was proven when he ruined Alias. So the double whammy of Abrams and Disney has all but guaranteed this movie would not be true to the OT. I'm pretty much done after this. Back to hiding in my OT bubble and pretending the sequels and the prequels never existed.

    -A

    ReplyDelete
  27. Yup...Between Kasdan, Fisher, and Abrams' quotes it's clear Han and Leia are not together. I'm confused about Abrams quote about Han never settling down though. Doesn't the flashback of Han and Leia dropping Kylo off at Luke's make it seem like they're a family when they do tbat? That means he at least settled down for a few years.

    Abrams doesn't understand the characters and their story arcs in ROTJ at all from that article. Basically he sees Leia as ANH Leia and Han as ANH Han.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's the thing. If the spoilers turn out to be true, then what they basically did is "turn the clock back" on both Han and Leia's development as characters.

      Both Han and Leia fell in love and grew because of their relationship. Han learned to stay with someone, belong to a cause, and be a hero. Leia learned to not be so much of a "stick in the mud" and open her heart up. If they go back to being their old selves, then what was the point?

      I'll tell you this, if this all happens, then I will write a letter to Disney, a professional letter, stating how disappointed I am, how other are, and how I won't be spending my money on future sequels and merchandising.

      Delete
    2. Yup. It's clear from that article he has no understanding of Han's character or Leia's character arcs over the OT. Yes, the Leia of ANH would have put her cause before everything else... The Leia of ROTJ who left the Rebellion to rescue Han and isn't even playing a leading role in the Rebellion ( otherwise she wouldn't have been able to volunteer for Han's mission) would not. Her arc is all about learning to find love and friends and balance that with her duty to the cause. The Han of ANH wouldn't settle down and commit to a cause, the Han of ROTJ who takes on the role of General and lends his beloved Falcon to Lando for his mission absolutely would. Basically he wants to return Han to his most popular self that the fanboys like ANH Han.

      Hate you Abrams. Can't believe I'm saying this but I wish Lucas had done the sequels. He's made it clear in his vision Han and Leia settled down and got married.

      Delete
  28. Looks like all the Han and Leia fans are going to have a great Christmas after JJ has ripped our hearts out and stamped all over them. God, I hate that man so much right now.

    Thanks JJ, I hope the backlash is huge. And you call yourself a fan.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I still think the quotes have to be taken with a grain of salt. Ey could very much be picked out of context. JJ kept Spock and Uhura together in his Star Trek movies. I am still hopeful their storyline won't be a complete disaster.

      Delete
  29. I'm still confused on the way Fisher and Abrams make it sound like Han and Leia broke up because Han didn't want to settle down and Leia was too committed to the cause. That doesn't jive with the flashback that they're together long enough to settle down and have a kid old enough to go to the Jedi Academy. Plus, if Leia was so devoted to the cause she can't even have a relationship with Han and Han would essentially be a deadbeat dad since he can't settle down and make a commitment, why would Leia even have a baby in the first place?

    Kasdan coming back was a bad idea. I know he originally had a dark ending for ROTJ, with Leia being elected queen of her people, Han dying and Luke going off on his own - essentially he wanted the movie to be about 3 people coming together to fight a war and then splitting up once the war was over. Lucas vetoed the idea. Now that Lucas isn't around, he finally got his way.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Good point. The comments in that article don't match the flashback info. Han and Leia must have stayed together long enough to have Kylo and then for him to be old enough to go and be trained by Luke. Yet these comments from Kasdan and Abrams make it sound like they never made it at all. Which means one of two things, their comments have been misinterpreted or the shot log of the flashback is wrong. I'm hoping for the former.

      Delete
    2. I honestly don't even care about the reasons anymore. Not after 32 years...Ridiculous.

      I hope that I eat crow on Thursday night, but it doesn't look like I will be.

      Delete
  30. http://superheroical.com/2015/11/han-leia-broke-up-the-sadness-of-the-star-wars-sequel-trilogy/

    ReplyDelete
  31. After all this, if they so much as try to create a different love interest with any of the new characters, it will be a huge slap in the face for H/L as characters and their fans. They are the OTP. If they can't have a happily ever after in this series,no one deserves to.

    ReplyDelete
  32. I've come to accept H/L beginning the movie separated and knowing they get back together... this tells me that they never fell out of love with each other.

    My issue is Han possibly dying. I want to see married couple-type stuff in episode 8 which would include arguing, strategizing, parenting, etc... With Han dying, this eliminates seeing them behave as a real couple. I can handle H/L starting out estranged IF we get time to see them actually TOGETHER.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Han was a family man...

    http://imgur.com/a/8oBYM

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wow, this explains alot and makes sense to me.

      - R

      Delete
    2. For those that can't see that link:

      "After the Galactic Civil War Han Solo`s life took unprecedented turns as he became husband to an influential New Republic politician and a family man..."

      Delete
    3. I freakin' LOVE that they got married and settled down. I understand they need to add an element of drama in TFA and having a child with issues wouldn't affect a marriage.

      Delete
    4. That makes me feel better, just knowing they did get married. Does anyone know which book that is? I wonder what Leia's description is...

      Delete
    5. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    6. Well at least we know they got married and the tragedy of losing their kid (or kids) drove them apart. That's better than worst case scenario that Han got Leia pregnant shortly after ROTJ and then ran off to be a smuggler. I kind of love the idea of Han being a racer pilot as a career.

      Curious that Han returned to his old days. I thought that what would have driven Han and Leia apart would have been that they processed their grief in different ways - Leia wanted to seek revenge by establishing the Resistance again the Knights of Ren while Han wants to search the galaxy for his missing child or children. This description just makes it sound like he goes back to smuggling.

      Do you think the movie will specifically mention that they got divorced? I used to think Disney wouldn't have the word divorce in a family film, but I just remembered Jurassic Park had the kids parents divorced.

      Delete
    7. If they reconcile in this movie before he's killed, I feel like they probably never got around to actually divorcing and have merely been estranged from each other for SO many years. It leaves the door open for a reconciliation. Implying he left strictly on the terms of his devastation regarding Kylo and not because he stopped loving Leia.

      Delete
  34. General "Organa" -sigh.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Perhaps she was actually "Organa-Solo" and she decided to drop the "Solo" when Han left after Kylo was taken. I can envision a convo during their "tender moment" where he asks her something along the lines of, "When did you drop my last name?"

      Delete
  35. What time is the premiere tonight? So I'll know when to check for spoilers so I can be put out of my misery. Thx.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 530 PST. When you find out, post them here, please!

      Delete
  36. The Visual Dictionary describes Han as a husband AND family man whose family was upended by tragedy, causing him to return to a private smuggling life.

    doesn't sound that bad to me. Of course hate him maybe dying.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Not sure if you guys saw this one where Empire magazine refers to Leia as Han's "civil partner".

    http://imgur.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/rtautwY

    ReplyDelete
  38. I'm really hoping Han's death is left unresolved. We believe he's dead, but there's not 100% proof. I can't see Harrison coming back for more, but it would be a shame to kill off the character for good because then there's no way to bring him back if for some reason Ford could be persuaded to return. Plus, I think that also would give fans of the OT something to possibly, albeit naively, look forward to. People didn't know originally that he was coming back for Jedi and that was a massive cliffhanger. Having him die, and there be a funeral service, etc, would be just too much, imo. If you want to kill him off for good, do it in episode IX. I think the fans deserve more than this.

    ReplyDelete
  39. It's been leaked now that Kylo wasn't kidnapped by the Knights of Ren but turned to the Dark Side while training under Luke and betrayed their location. That means he has to have been at least a teenager when the massacre occurred, so Han and Leia were together for about 15 years before they split up. I wonder if when they run into each other in TFA if it's the first time they've seen each other in 15 years.

    I wonder if they split because Han believed Kylo could still be redeemed and tried to find him while Leia was essentially the leader of an organization that was trying to kill him and the First Order? I'm curious how they found out that he betrayed the Jedi Academy because from the flashbacks it sounds like Luke goes into exile right away and doesn't tell them.

    I'm looking forward to the books that will show them being happily married and how they settled down and had a good life before. I wonder what Leia thought of Han being a professional race pilot!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Seems plausible that if Kylo massacred the Academy several years after H/L dropped him off (say at 15 years old) he might have known about the existence of sister/cousin Rey — all the more reason to hide her. There's also speculation that Rey is the only surviving student of the Academy... so I'm leaning towards a cousin Rey scenario b/c it would be curious why H/L would send Kylo to the Academy at age 10 and Rey at a younger age.

      It also doesn't appear that Han is searching for anyone though, so much as drowning his sorrows in a life of adventure. He's returned to his ANH self, not because his character development in the OT is being ignored by the writers, but because Han himself trying to forget and protect himself from further heartbreak.

      Leia, on the other hand, could have VERY interesting motivations as a general in the Resistance. Wouldn’t others in the Resistance call her leadership and loyalty into question if they knew Kylo Ren was her son? That could be an interesting storyline…

      - Anonymoose

      Delete
  40. The way MSW describes the scene Han is definitely dead. Scroll down if you want to read.....




    Han comes out of hiding and pleads with Kylo to come back to the light. He apologizes for not being a good father and not being around enough when Kylo was a child. Kylo seems as though he is listening and Han's words are working and he moves to embrace Han. The audience then sees Kylo's lightsaber going through Han's mid section and Kylo yells "You're not my father." Han's body then falls into an abyss (you know rule of all SW fights is they have to take place on a high ledge). I don't see any way they could explain him surviving that.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That also makes it sound like he was a deadbeat dad, even when he and Leia were married.

      Delete
    2. I don't think we'll get that impression. I think Han maybe feels regretful that he dropped Kylo off at Luke's academy for Luke to raise instead of him and Leia, but I don't think they did it because they didn't want to raise their kids but because Luke was the only one who could teach him how to be a Jedi.

      Delete
    3. Adam Drivet said in an interview that Kylo falls to the Dark Side because he wasn't loved enough as a child and he has bad memories of his childhood. It's possible he felt Han and Leia abandoned him when they dropped him off to be trained by Luke. But since he's a villain, I think we'd expect his memory to be skewed.

      Delete
  41. If you watch interviews with Abrams, it's clear he was gung ho on splitting Han and Leia up so he could get to play with Han at his most interesting - ANH Han. Basically it appears that Han's just undid all his character development and has reverted back to his ANH self at the time we meet him in TFA. There was no reason to break them up except for Abrams being an ANH Han fanboy.

    I miss Lucas. I don't think he ever envisioned such a dark and depressing end to the Big Three.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Agreed. But at least they did get married, so there's that. One of my biggest concerns was that they never got married at all.

      Delete
  42. Any leak on who Rey's parents are?

    ReplyDelete
  43. Harrison Ford interview on Han and Leia's relationship in TFA: http://www.popsugar.com/celebrity/Harrison-Ford-Star-Wars-Force-Awakens-Interview-Video-39374428

    ReplyDelete
  44. I saw the Han Solo page. I liked that he married Leia, and became a family man. I do not like the separation. Now they won't have a happen ending. What a waste of my time if I'm correct.

    ReplyDelete
  45. The first reviews are raving, but I haven't seen any specific spoilers yet and I don't know if the positive reviews are coming from the new generation who may not have as strong of a hold with the OT characters as we do.

    ReplyDelete
  46. First spoilers in: https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/3wwlbf/full_official_spoiler/ Han and Leia discuss their son Kylo but no mention of whether they reconcile. Han dies by Kylo's blade.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hmmm, the way Han supposedly dies is different from the MSW described scene. Reddit and MSW describe it very differently. I just want to know does it make it clear that he's really truly dead?

      Also, any talk about the H/L marriage?

      Delete
    2. There's a guy on Reddit claiming to have been at the premier and isn't a journo, so shared his review and is answering specific questions about details. He confirmed that Kylo is Ben Solo. Rey's parentage remains a mystery.

      Delete
  47. Why are L/H separated? "Everytime Leia see's Han she thinks of Ben (Kylo Ren) who was Luke's apprentice and turned bad." Src: https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/3wv3c2/gameday_thread_star_wars_premiere/

    Here's hoping this guy just isn't as much of an H/L fan as us and is grossly simplifying this explanation.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I absolutely hate the insinuation if something romantic between Rey and Finn. Again, if H/L could not have their happily ever after, why should any of these new characters.

      Delete
    2. I kind of hate that explanation because it sounds like Leia callously dumped Han after they lost their kid because she couldn't handle them being around. Poor Han first loses his kid, then his wife? No wonder he went back to smuggling. I hope it's better explained in the book that deals with their divorce/separation.

      Delete
  48. I like the sound of Ben Solo. I just skimmed that whole thread. By that guy's review and details, I am slightly disappointed. Hopefully the actual movie is way better. I really need closure on H/L's relationship. I am sure most others feel that way too.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I’m taking his negativity with a grain of salt, but I’m glad I know what emotional rollercoaster I have in store for me on Thursday night. And in all honestly, he’s picking at the same kind of logic problems that we’re all happy to ignore when we watch the OT.

      Delete
    2. For example, he’s critical that Rey is able to fight Kylo without formal training or even prior knowledge that she’s a Force user. I’m sure if this were the prequels, he abilities would be explained away with hidden memories of growing up w/ daddy Luke. But in the OT it just would’t have been explained — just like Luke turning off his targeting system and destroying the Deathstar.

      Delete
    3. Is Luke her father (since you called him "daddy luke")? Any talk of Han and Leia's possible marriage? Please post if anyone knows.

      Delete
    4. Sorry, I was being sarcastic with the "daddy" comment. Her parentage isn't revealed but is heavily implied. That might just be suspense going through the next two films, though, and then we learn in Episode IX that she really is just a "nobody" — and the moral of this updated mythology for a new age of fans is something along the lines of “where you come from doesn’t matter as much as where you go.”

      Delete
  49. I find it weird Leia would call her son Ben when she never met him in ANH. Why not Bail?

    Can't believe JJ Abrams trolled us by not revealing Rey's parentage. The spoilers rule out her being a Solo, but she could still be a Skywalker.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I read the name at work and literally LOLed at my desk. I totally agree that Bail would have been better. Followed by something totally random. Followed by Jacen. Followed by Ben. Which is probably only followed by Anakin.

      But a lot can happen between ROTJ and TFA, and who's to say the new EU blank slate wont reveal something like Obi-Wan's Force Ghost mentoring Leia after ROTJ. We know she chooses to not train as a Jedi, but maybe she developed some sort of kinship with him, if only to ask a bunch of questions after her parentage.

      Delete
  50. Could any H/L fan please let us know when they hear about Han's death scene and if there's a chance he could've survived (maybe it was vague). If anyone hears about Han and Leia's tender moments, we would love details!

    ReplyDelete
  51. Lightsaber through the chest while confronting Kylo. Definitely dead. Guess we know why Harrison was having so much fun promoting the film — he finally got his wish. Not much on H/L's relationship other than they embrace several times (the last time is described as a "hug" by the reviewer, but I have my hopes up for a more significant "hold me" type of hug. The reddit reviewed is clearly not a romantic).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It can always be open ended with Han dying. I don't think that the reason why Harrison has been happily promoting the film is because he "got his wish". That was a long time ago and clearly he's enjoyed this film and being in this movie and liked the whole experience.

      Time will tell on Han's "death".

      Delete
    2. The reddit guy says after he's stabbed through the chest he falls off a bridge into an abyss and then the whole base blows up shortly after. I don't think he can survive from that...

      Delete
    3. Actually, falling into an abyss is open-ended for Star Wars. Vader dying in Luke's arms is unquestionable, same with Yoda, but falling without seeing any dead body leaves them some options for Han in episode 8.

      Delete
    4. Not if the place where the abyss is explodes soon after.

      Delete
    5. People in movies sneak away from explosions. I'm hooked on the "no body" thing. If we saw him actually dead, that would mean something.

      Delete
  52. Still trying to get my head round Han and Leia calling their son Ben. Just can't see that at all. And why reuse the name of Luke's son when they could have used ANYTHING else? Even Jacen would have made more sense.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yep...It seems like Luke would name his son Ben, not Leia.

      Delete
  53. Description of Han's death:

    Han tries to reason with Kylo as an attempt to half heartedly bring him back to the light and to give Chewie time to set charges. At first they make it seem like it's working and Kylo takes off his mask and hugs Han, but then out of nowhere he kills Han. They play no music during the whole exchange, but right at the moment where Kylo ignites his saber and pierces Han, music comes on heavily making the whole thing emotional as all hell. The look on Hans face is absolutely heart breaking and I fucking applaud for Harrison ford for giving his performance his all. The guy who plays Kylo does an extremely good job at showing conflicted anger/regret at the moment he kills Han.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So no physical body? Anything is possible in Star Wars and without a dead body - who knows!

      Delete
    2. Getting stabbed through the chest with a lightsaber would be pretty hard to come back from. Another user posted that Han cups Kylo's face as he falls back into the abyss. I'm glad I was spoiled for how he dies since I think I would have a heart attack seeing that unfold on the screen and not knowing.

      Delete
    3. Another description of his death scene:


      Han calls "Ben!" to Kylo who's on a bridge. Kylo comes over to Han. Han tells Kylo he still loves him and asks him to come home with them. Kylo says he needs help and he hates what he's become. He takes off his mask and starts crying. Kylo says "I am torn apart, father. But I know what I must do. Can you help me?"

      Han: "Of course, my son."

      Kylo comes closer to Han and hugs him. Lightsaber through the chest for Han. Camera zoom in on Han's heartbreaking expression as he realizes his son's betrayal.

      Kylo: "Thank you, father."

      Han reaches up with one hand to stroke the side of Kylo's face and then falls into the abyss below the bridge.

      Delete
    4. Well, if we're going for realism, Han surely wouldn't survive that. But this is Star Wars. If he didn't get blown to smithereens when the base exploded, he could have survived. It's interesting that he just happens to fall out of sight. I guess we won't know for sure until the series concludes, unless someone stumbles upon HF shooting scenes in the near future.

      Also, no funeral is interesting. You kill off one of the most beloved cinema characters of all time, and you can't even be bothered to give him a proper sendoff? Even if his body was unable to recovered, some kind of memorial service would be appropriated. Even Darth Vader got a funeral pyre. It screams fishy to me.

      I'm more bummed about how they broke up Han and Leia, and don't even explain it. And then all they talk about is Kylo. It doesn't sound like they have much dialogue together at all. What was even the point of all this?

      Delete
    5. My friend who saw it said that's pretty much how it goes, there's also some added dialogue where Han tells Kylo that Snoke is manipulating and using him. He appears to be getting through to Kylo and Kylo starts crying and takes off his mask and says he wants Han to help him. Han and him hug and Kylo then thrusts his lightsaber through Han's chest. Harrison's performance is heartbreaking and he reaches out to caress his son's face as he falls over into the abyss. My friend says there's no question he's definitely dead.

      Delete
  54. Reddit user who saw the movie saws "At first Han and Leia seemed really tired and weary but after a bit they reconcile and you can really see the love they have for each other. It makes his death all the more sad."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This has to be one of the most vaguest statements. He gave no details about the "love" they have? Any flashbacks, any statements between them about their marriage, etc... ?

      Delete
    2. Another user said: They have one scene in the movie together. They hug when they reunite and Leia looks extremely happy. It's pretty much implied Han left after Kylo turned to the dark side. They don't really discuss much of their past, only that Han would try and bring Kylo back.

      Delete
    3. Well we know that isn't true just from the trailers. We've seen "the hug" but there's also that shot of them both in the war room standing around that table. Two different scenes.

      Delete
    4. I think he meant a scene of them one-on-one. We know they have another scene when Leia's ship arrives to rescue them at Maz's castle.

      Interesting that one guy posted that Leia was the one to end things and another guy posted that it was implied Han left. I wonder if the novelization will expand on it.

      Anyone else dreading reading the book where they get divorced?

      Delete
    5. Just goes to show that people lie. That is two totally opposite description of H/L - one saying she left him and the other that Han left. Don't believe all these supposed people seeing the movie.

      Delete
    6. I think their separation will not be explained in the movie and the audience is left to infer it was from Kylo going dark. It was probably mutual so both spoilers could be accurate.

      Delete
    7. My friend who saw it says it sounds like their break up is mutual. Han says that every time Leia sees Han she sees Ben but that boy they raised is gone. Han then says he had to leave her and go back to do what he did best, smuggling. Leia replies that she had to do her duty, lead her people. Leia tells Han there is still good in Ben. Han says no, he can't be redeemed.

      Delete
    8. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
  55. Couple other spoilers that bug me:

    1) Han doesn't get a funeral. Leia hugs Rey and sends her to Luke.

    2) Leia has been trying to find her missing brother for years and then when she finally does, she doesn't even come with Rey to find him?

    ReplyDelete
  56. When they hug when they reunite, did we hear about the dialogue? It's odd to be broken up for years and quickly back together after one conversation? Did they even have a convo? Sounds like someone isn't telling us everything or there's more to it.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Only dialogue that's been posted between them is this spoiler here:

    Han and Leia see each other for the first time after many, many years and have a touching conversation about their son: "You can still save him." / "How can I save him when Luke couldn't?" / "Luke was a Jedi, your are his father."

    I don't think they specifically get back together, it's just implied they still love each other and they share a hug before he leaves.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I wonder when someone calls Leia "princess" happens (we all think it's Han). I'm hoping they really have more than 1 single scene alone together. I would rather trust a H/L fan for the details, especially since those that aren't huge fans are giving us conflicting info with who broke up with who. For instance, it was spoiled that there will be flashbacks of H/L bringing Kylo to Luke AND that Leia feels Han's death through the force. We've heard none of that actually happening.

      Not surprised that Han's death sounds dramatic, but I do agree with him falling into a hole or whatever is different than dying in someone's arms. Interesting.

      Delete
    2. According to a poster who saw it 3PO accidentally calls her Princess and then corrects it to General.

      Several people who claim to have seen it say Leia does feel Han's death through the Force but I haven't heard anything about the flashback scene. My guess it was scripted but not filmed or if filmed then cut. May have been hard to have Harrison and Carrie convincingly play 30 and 40 year old Han and Leia.

      So far no clear details on their reunion just that it's clear that they still love each other and share a hug. Han tells Finn they are no longer married so they presumably divorced.

      Delete
  58. Where did you find the information about Han telling Finn they were no longer married?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I messaged a guy who saw it last night. He said their separation isn't explained beyond Han saying that and it's implied their break up was over Kylo going dark. All he said about their reunion was that they discuss Kylo and Leia asks Han to bring him back. He says it's clear she still loves Han and Ben. They share a hug and then Han takes the Falcon to Starkiller Base.

      Delete
    2. I want to know more about their discussion about Kylo. Any caressing of the cheek, touches between them? Do we just get the one hug? Bah!

      Delete
    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
  59. This is what that reddit guy says:

    Han and Leia make up in so far as they talk about how their relationship wasn't all bad. There's no kiss and theres no "I love you, I know" which I've heard people speculate about. Han mentions that everytime Leia looks at him she thinks of Ben but their son is gone now. Leia still thinks there's good in him. Han disagrees. The trailer cuts during the hug just seconds before Leia says "theres good in him, I know it"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I am happy that they actually discuss their relationship. I couldn't imagine it could ONLY be about Kylo. Maybe they talk about some specific good times?

      Delete
    2. I'm going to guess that either Han or Leia asks the other if they regretted marrying the other because of what happened to their son and the other says something like "It wasn't all bad, there were some good times." Then they discuss Kylo. I think it'll come across as two divorcees who still have feelings for each other.

      Delete
    3. Is it actually confirmed though that they officially divorced?

      Delete
    4. My friend says it's never specifically mentioned. Maybe the novelization will say. At any rate, they haven't seen each other for about 15 years by the time they meet up in TFA.

      Delete
  60. I feel horrible for all the posters in the "Premiere Tonight. The Week is Finally Here" thread on this blog. Ugh. It's like being a time traveller watching Titanic passengers waving to shore as they depart for sea. You know what's going to happen but can't yell "the ship is gonna sink! the ship is gonna sink!" (pun intended) without violating the rules of time travel / spoiler-free spaces.

    Up until two weeks ago I was completely unspoiled for TFA. But then I remembered being semi-spoiled back when TPM came out, but not really believing the rumors. Even when the novelization leaked, I thought for sure it was fake. It didn't sound like Star Wars. It sounded like (at best) the synopsis of a History Channel mini-series, or (at worst) homework for my AP history class. So I went to the midnight release with high hopes and walked away absolutely crushed. Thankfully the FanFic community kept good Star Wars and infinite possibilities alive for me between 1999 and now.

    I guess I just hope that after the ship sinks, this little community sticks together and has an absolute blast filling in all the gaps between canon ROTJ and TFA and imagining incredible AUs. We did it with the prequels and the EU, why can't we do it again?

    - Anonymoose

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I've completely wiped the prequels out of my mind. They never existed. It will be much harder to do this time around since we're actually seeing Han and Leia in the flesh.

      The posters in the other thread are going to be absolutely crushed. As are most of the people I see on twitter.....

      P

      Delete
  61. I admit I'm kind of worried about the fandom. I know the Luke/Mara fandom dissipated when Mara was deemed non canon. Will Han and Leia go the same way when it's canon our OTP didn't make it?

    Yeah, I feel bad for all the optimists in the thread. I'm glad I'm spoiled because I don't think my heart could take seeing Han and Leia broken up and Han murdered in such an awful way with no mental preparation beforehand.

    Just looking at this background pic right now makes me sad.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Why should we believe anything anyone posts on Reddit or the anonymous person posting on this page? I'm not saying they are absolutely wrong or that I am in denial but why are we so quick to believe these people?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi there! I've been a longtime lurker who just started posting because I'm worried for the fandom, and this ship in particular.

      You're correct that you can't trust the validity of what I say beyond the reputation of those redditors. I'm just passing on information that they've shared on the /r/starwarsleaks subreddit, but I have followed those conversations close enough to ensure the majority of the reddit community doesn't think the info is complete BS.

      I'm posting Anonymoosely but maybe that will be my new username. I'm feeling motivated to unlurk (but can't really afford for my 'shipping to come to light IRL).

      Delete
  63. The info I just posted came from this guy: https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/3wv3c2/gameday_thread_star_wars_premiere/ I think he's legit because he posted a picture of his badge and he's a long time serious reddit poster, not a troll. I messaged him and asked him specifically about Han and Leia.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That is upsetting. Now we'll have to rely on their body language to make our own conclusions.

      Delete
  64. Still doesn't make me think this is fact.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'd like to be as optimistic as you.

      Delete
  65. No, but all the people who've claim to have seen the movie say pretty much the same thing about Han and Leia 's reunion scene - they discuss Kylo, Leia asks Han to get him, Han agrees, they hug, Han leaves. Han's death scene is also described the same way by everyone who's seen the movie. I'm going to say the odds are that we know what Han and Leia's scene together and Han's death scene will be like.

    ReplyDelete
  66. Another post from someone who's seen the movie:
    They reunite in the sense they profess how much they love each other and hug. No kisses sadly. Leia does tell Han that and Han talks about after the whole Kylo Ren thing he went away and did what he felt he was best at (smuggling) and Leia says she did the same (leading people)



    Still don't understand why JJ Abrams had to break them up since it doesn't really serve a purpose to the overall storyline.

    ReplyDelete
  67. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByQR6taehVh7MUdKLWdLRUx5eG8/view?pref=2&pli=1

    Same info but paints Han and Leia in a better light.

    ReplyDelete
  68. And no goodbye kiss between them? Not even a peck? As I wrote somewhere else, it's a slap in the face.

    I'm "black and white" on this issue. No gray for me. I don't care how good the rest of the movie might be. If this is Han and Leia's canon fate, then I'm done.

    The only thing now I'll care about is fanfiction changing their fate.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree. This is terrible judgement in JJ's part. I don't want Han to die but if had to then so be it but destroy their relationship? No I am not okay with that. I am dreading seeing this movie.

      Delete
    2. That's my point exactly. If Han and Leia at least are together, through all of their ups and downs, that would've been okay. And they have an evil son who kills his dad? Please...spare me.

      Delete
    3. Yeah I could have handled Han dying but what was the purpose of breaking them up? They don't even get to reconcile like Indy and Marion, they just share a sad scene together where Han says their relationship wasn't all bad.

      I don't even think I can enjoy the OT or fanfic any more.

      Delete
    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
  69. One more post on their reunion:

    After their kid became a dark jedi (or Ren knight as they are called) they both go back to the life they knew best. Her as a rebel leader, and him back to smuggling. They hug it out, Han says "it wasnt that all that bad" about their relationship. Carrie tells him he still drives him crazy. They dont have much dialogue, but they are smiling to each other and obviously broken inside.

    ReplyDelete
  70. Carrie "reveals" her costume for Episode VIII. Much needed LOLs to be found (in addition to an implication she's in mourning).

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3361765/Carrie-Fisher-reveals-new-Sith-like-Star-Wars-Episode-VIII-costume-deletes-tweet.html

    And another (slightly NSFW but why would you be on an occasionally smutty fanfic site at work?)

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/15/23/2F684A6600000578-0-image-a-1_1450222904488.jpg

    ReplyDelete
  71. I'm writing the story and characterization problems up. I drafted it weeks ago after the final straw of JJ Abrams comment that he wanted to make a movie girls would like because "Star Wars has always been about boys." Everything from "General Leia" to no more slave Leia to that comment told me he thought the story needed to be fixed so women would like it. So two things, if you have any comments for me perhaps that you are willing to let me quote, please email lml dot ahlondon at gmail. I want to have the piece relatively done so I can submit it after I watch and verify on Thursday night. Two, a friend and colleague of mine is a movie reviewer. She's offered to completely spoil me. What do you want me to ask her? I know what I want to ask her, but I want to see what really concerns the shippers here. Leslie

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Details on what exactly was said during their reunion please! And how long have they been split up for? Does Han mention Leia before they meet up? Thanks!

      Delete
  72. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Alright, one last post. And it may be unwarranted optimism that will be staked through the heart tomorrow night, but...

    1. All we're hearing is that Han falls into a hole and dies.
    2. They went to the trouble of splitting Han and Leia up, which is Han dies serves no really useful story purpose other than selling books for Disney about they years in between, and I'm thinking pissed-off women aren't likely to be opening their wallets.
    4. Harrison Ford's hair is pretty long at the moment...like Han Solo long...and Ep VIII starts shooting in a few weeks.

    You see where I'm going here? Is there any chance...any tiny chance...that maybe Han is not dead?

    Again, I don't want to create optimism when there probably should be none (especially now that I'm understanding why Harrison Ford has been so freaking happy in interviews for the last few months)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sorry about the mess, to quote a certain character.

      Delete
    2. I thought about this actually, but until I actually see the scene... If he only gets stabbed in the abdomen, then maybe? Wishful thinking probably.

      Delete
  74. Pics of Han's death and an audio clip. The audio wouldn't play for me but it did for a friend and he played it for me over the phone.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/3x2hwr/leaked_photo_of_a_certain_characters_death/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Welp, nope, I take back my earlier hope. That looks good and dead to me.
      Damn you, Star Wars, for making me grow up and stop caring at this late date. You could have saved me so much money by killing Han in 1983...All that now non-canon EU, all the prequels, tickets for this film...Sigh.

      Delete
    2. Yea this is very bad. I only hope the context is slightly better.

      Delete
    3. Can't play the audio what does it say?

      Delete
  75. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  76. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Can I make a statement here and Zyra hates when I bring this up with her; I hate Harrison Ford. I always have. Since the moment I saw Star Wars I was instantly a fan of his but as I started to watch his films and follow him as an actor he continued to bad mouth Star Wars and Han Solo, as a young kid that had a major effect on me. It was heartbreaking. For years I separated myself from him and deemed myself a Han Solo fan. Not a Harrison Ford fan. Ever since his return to Star Wars I haven't bought any of his bullshit. I think he came back because he saw and opportunity to make a lot of money and finally put an end to his time in Star Wars. Now no one can ask him anymore questions. After we've all calmed down from this and moved on the Ep8 he will fade into the distance and that's what he wants. Sure we won't forget him but now he knows we will finally leave him alone. Atleast about coming back. I am sure it was in his contract to do this and he had Kasdan on his side. Don't get me wrong though, I am okay with Han dying but I am very upset by this. The fact that Han and Leia are shattered makes it almost unbearable. I am sure Harrison had nothing to do with that aspect of it. I think it's very important moving forward that we as Han and Leia fans ban together to keep this fandom alive. There's a lot of lurkers, myself included, but if we are to continue this thing that we love so much it's up to us now. It's up to whatever we write and the amount of time we put into this. It's gonna be tough because I feel like no one is going to be on our side now. We are going to have a lot of people telling us "It's in the movies. It's canon. Deal with it" and that's sad. Those people don't truly understand the core of Han and Leia. It's sad that JJ and Kasdan don't seem to either and he'll Kasdan help to create them! This is all unfortunate and at the moment it has soured Star Wars for me completely. All I have to look forward to is how Leia may react to this. Will she now want to avenge Han? It's confusing that she is smiling in what appeared to be the last scene where she is wearing that blue dress. Did she get over Han's death so quickly? Is that why they separated them so that Leia wouldn't care? That's not in Leia's character at all. We all know she has a deep love for Han and she would be crushed by his death. Thoughts?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. According to people who have seen it, she feels Han's death through the Force and nearly collapses. At the end when the base is destroyed everyone else is celebrating but she looks devestated. She is portrayed as a broken woman when we see her, heartbroken over losing her husband and son. I think she will be a shell of herself in the next movie. Plus, she was the one to ask Han to bring Kylo back home so she has to be feeling some guilt.

      I think she's only smiling because Rey is her niece and she got to be reconciled with her plus she just found out Luke is alive after he's been missing for over a decade. I wish Rey had gotten to be Han and Leia's kid so something good could have come out of their story. Someone else pointed out that when you watch the OT and the ST back to back you're not going to want to root for Han and Leia getting together because their romance results in the villain of the ST,

      Delete
    2. When I say when we see her, I mean she's presented as a broken woman even before Han dies. Han tells her he had to leave her so it sounds like he was the one who decided to divorce her, not her. Although it sounds like she was the one to emotionally shut him out with Han's line that every time she looked at him she saw Ben.

      Delete
    3. This all makes me miss Jacen.

      Delete
    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    5. Oh, and did one good thing ever happen in Leia's life, ever? Isn't this getting to the point of "I can't suspend my disbelief anymore."

      Delete
    6. Doesn't look like it, except maybe the 15 years or so when she was married to Han with Ben until Ben turned dark. She's pretty much lived the most tragic life a fictional character can live. Honestly, I'd rather see her die off screen than put her through more misery in Epidode 8 and 9 having to see her son commit atrocities and be squared off against him by leading the Resistance.

      Delete
    7. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
  78. What did Kasdan want to happen to Han and Leia in ROTJ? I think Kasdan likes writing Han as Indy, womanizing loner with no plans to settle down. JJ Abrams is an ANH Han fan so I think they wanted to split Han and Leia up so Han could go back to his smuggler loner self.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
  79. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  80. No reconciliation. You can see that they lived seperate lives but they have a son and discuss about him. Leia stresses that Han should talk to Kylo as the father. Later, when they prepare the attack on Starkiller base Han and Leia share some funny moments, joking about the past (Death Star II attack) . And of course they have the hug from the trailer. Basically they act like how two ex spouses who divorced 10 years ago but have a son together that they still care about and still have feelings for each other would act.

    Great movie though, best since ESB. Don't judge it before you see it.

    ReplyDelete