So now we have the first so-called "spin-off" movie trailer. It's not about Skywalkers or really even Jedi, but a group of Rebels who are working to steal the Death Star plans. Gee, wonder if they succeed? So, what do you guys think? Are you excited? Indifferent? Annoyed? Cautiously optimistic?
I'll be honest and say that I'm not particularly excited about this movie. I'm not actively against it, as I am about the young Han Solo movie, it's just that I don't really expect it to be very good, or to suck me in and make me want to watch it a hundred times like the OT. All right, we have another female lead, which I guess is cool. But I think it is going to be hard to top Daisy Ridley's performance (if it weren't for her, and at least getting to see Han Solo again even if they ruined him, I think TFA would be a COMPLETE waste of time) and also maybe difficult to make us all care about her character. The trailer did intrigue me slightly when they did a little flashback of her, maybe giving her a bit more depth there and telling us there is something more, but I'm still skeptical there. They also haven't really shown me anything in other characters that looks particularly compelling.
The one thing that gets me kind of excited, and which also proves to me that I am also a general Star Wars nerd and not just all about Han and Leia, was seeing Vader again. Yeah, that's pretty cool and I think will be fun to see on screen again. Also reminds me that we should probably have James Earl Jones record every word in the English language so we can use his voice in any movie even after he dies.
I don't know, is it the actual movie? Is it that they are already in just two movies burning me out on Star Wars? Would I be more excited about this if TFA hadn't completely destroyed my faith in the franchise in general? I can't really answer that. I can say though that with the trailer for TFA, every single time I saw it, I got chills. I saw a bunch of movies last fall in the theater and saw the trailer on the big screen several times, and I was mesmerized, every time. I saw this one on the big screen I think twice already (well, the earlier version) and felt... nothing. Not that I outright expect it to be bad, I just kind of expect it to be forgettable. I could be very wrong there, but time will tell.
The only really good news to me is that it stands a MUCH slimmer chance of doing anything to ruin any of our favorite things about Star Wars like TFA did. I mean, I guess theoretically they could do something awful there, I just don't think in this case they will. So at least it feels somewhat "safer" in that case.
Anybody else with any opinions? I've seen several people who have reacted quite favorably to the trailer, and I think that's great. I just don't really get it.
Since apparently people aren't getting new post alerts, but DO get new comment alerts, I'll post the first comment. Come on over and discuss the new Rogue One trailer and the movie in general.
ReplyDeleteI don't get new comment alerts unless it's on a post upon which I've already commented and ticked the "notify me" box. I have tried to get into the habit of checking for new posts so I'm not *quite* as late to this as I might've been. I was going to suggest that perhaps whenever you create a new post, you might put a "final" comment on your previous post just alerting everyone on that thread. Orrrr, I could just keep checking now and then! :D
DeleteIt looks decent, but I'm not blown away by it. I'll definitely be seeing it though, but I won't be in such a rush that I need to go to a midnight screening this time round. Maybe a few days after it opens.
ReplyDeleteI'll be going but not enthusiastic about it since it will probably be the 2nd pointless Star Wars film. The new trailer seems to show that the main character is looking for her father who is involved with Death Star construction and was maybe kidnapped by the Empire to do that so add her to the list of Star Wars people with missing fathers.
ReplyDeleteBeing a father in the Star Wars universe hasn't yet turned out well for anyone.
DeleteI think Disney is doing overkill and they don't know when to stop. They've got this new empire and they're exploring it, but this feels like too much.
ReplyDeleteFirst, it just feels weird to wander away from the Skywalker family story. Even watching the trailers (which don't thrill me either) just feels like something is missing.
I'll probably end up watching it, but, as a I really am not interested in watching it.
Good point.
DeleteWait, I'm not the only one who isn't getting the updates? Whew! That makes me feel better.
ReplyDeleteIt looked cool but yeah I'm not hugely excited to see it the way I was for Episode VII. I think it'd be very cool to see a shot of Leia from the back with her signature buns and dress with Jyn looking at her in awe though. And young Mon Mothma is a dead ringer for the original actress who played her.
ReplyDeleteHey, one good thing about this movie: it means Bria Tharen didn't steal the Death Star plans, Jyn did! Haha
Oh one thing I forgot to mention, one good thing about this is that this is the only movie that to me has pretty much zero potential to "ruin" anything from the OT. I guess maybe it could happen, but it just seems unlikely. So at the very least, I don't like, fear this movie. Of course I suppose they could show us Leia's true love who dies, or maybe Han's true love, but that seems unlikely.
ReplyDeleteIt looks interesting, but I really have no interest in seeing it. Star Wars is Han, Leia, and Luke for me only. I love Rey and Poe, but since they ruined the OT3, I have no interest anymore in this sequel trilogy.
ReplyDeleteThere was some news articles speculating that Jyn is Han's girlfriend and the mother of Rey. I was like, um that would be the second time Han fell in love with the girl who stole the Death Star! LOL. (That article was just click bait, don't worry, I give that a 0% chance of happening).
ReplyDeleteSomeone said you could see Bail in the trailer or someone who looked like him. That would be kind of cool.
Oh and what do you guys think of the potential love interest in the Han Solo film? http://variety.com/2016/film/news/han-solo-movie-female-lead-tessa-thompson-zoe-kravitz-1201878975/ I'd be excited if it was Tessa Thompson, she was awesome in Selma. Don't know much about the other two though.
ReplyDeleteSince that isn't really Han, I don't particularly care who plays his love interest ;) Basically I fully expect that whoever is love interest is, she will be way cooler, way more badass, and way more "right" for Han than Leia ever was or could be.
DeleteThis is just me setting myself up for more disappointment. Since if you had me think up the worst things they could've done to Han and Leia in Episode 7, I would've picked all the things they DID do, I shall now pick the worst things they could do for this movie, and totally expect that is what they will be doing.
WELLLL....We all knew Han wasn't a virgin when he met Leia. LOOK at him LOL. I'm okay with him having a love interest many, many years before he meets Leia.
DeleteDonald Glover for Lando has got me semi-excited. I adore that man.
Has Donald Glover been officially announced or is that still just a rumor? This shows how much I've been paying attention. If he is in, I do agree that is great and I'll enjoy seeing him in that role, I like him a lot.
DeleteNot saying Han was a virgin or a saint or they should pretend he was. Just that my worry is they will turn this into a Bria situation, where everything Han does in the OT is because of the effect this woman had on him. And he was head over heels in love with her WAY more than he ever was with Leia, and they're like, totally perfect soulmates for each other. Almost like further proof as to why Han and Leia don't work out in this new version of events.
I never had a problem with Han's other ex girlfriends, like Salla or Xaverri. Just Bria, for all the reasons mentioned above. And since they seem to be keeping only the worst aspects of the old EU, I have a feeling they will do that all over again.
Not confirmed yet but rumored. He's great in Community.
DeleteThis movie is set 10 years before ANH right? I doubt any woman he meets now is going to have much effect on his relationship with Leia.
It would be funny if they pick Zoe Kravitz though because she's 4'10 or something and it'd make it seem like he's got a thing for short girls! (In the EU, all his girlfriends were really tall. What was up with that?)
I agree, I loved that show. I will still wait for that to be confirmed true before I get excited about it.
DeleteIt IS set 10 years before ANH. Han met Bria 10 years before ANH and she sure as heck did a number on him in those books. And the author made sure to outright steal moments from Han and Leia in the OT to make it seem as though the only reason Han said or did certain things was because he was echoing something he had said or done with Bria so many years before. So, while I agree, it SOUNDS ridiculous, it's happened before...
Good point, Han's other girlfriends were always tall, and usually very different physically from Leia. I guess it was kind of nice Han didn't seem to have a physical type.
Lol, if this "new" Han had a tall girlfriend it would look ridiculous as the actor is the same height as Mark Hamill. It's just fifty shades of wrong.
DeleteDon't even get me started on how wrong I think it is that the faux Han is so short compared to Harrison! Ugh. At least you ladies understand. Han just isn't "Han" without long legs and tight pants. They can make this new guy's pants as tight as they want. They still won't be able to grow his legs by four inches!
DeleteTotally agree! Even if they get him to stand on a box, or someone else to stand in a ditch, on the full body shots his legs are still going to look short and the real Han does not have short legs!!
DeleteThis Alden guy is supposed to be Han about ten years before ANH, which would make him in his late teens, which doesn't fit at all when you look at him, he looks mid twenties at least. This is why I think they have purposely decided to not give Han a canon age anymore. He used to be 29 in ANH, but now suddenly Pablo says his age has never been established. So it wouldn't surprise me if they are making him a little older, so it fits better with the look of this new fake Han.
Remember that Artoo is also now taller (1.06 meters instead of .96 meters) maybe because the new guy replacing Kenny Baker is taller so it follows that Han's age (and height?) is adjusted for the new guy.
DeleteRemember that Artoo is also now taller (1.06 meters instead of .96 meters) maybe because the new guy replacing Kenny Baker is taller so it follows that Han's age (and height?) is adjusted for the new guy.
Delete"He used to be 29 in ANH, but now suddenly Pablo says his age has never been established."
DeleteThat's ridiculous. I can show everyone at Disney official Lucasfilm tie-in products from 1977-1983 that establish his age, from the back of trading cards to Official fan club stuff to the souvenir programs. TPTB could just tell the truth and admit they want to change it - Lucas did it with Leia. There's no reason to just lie about a retcon.
Even though I still believe this young Han thing is officially the worst idea in the history of the universe, and the casting for Han himself is awful, I can however totally see Donald Glover as young Lando. But they probably won't cast him because he looks too much like a young Billy Dee Williams and Alden whatever his name is looks nothing like young Harrison, so it will look rather jarring.
ReplyDeleteThe Donald Glover rumor is literally the only thing about this movie that made me go, "Oh, well that actually sounds kind of good." And I loved the Lego Movie, but I don't care if Spielberg was directing it, Han's back story should still be left alone in live action, unless you digitally de-age Harrison Ford or did it as an animated movie.
DeleteThis new "Han Solo" would really have to pull off a "Harrison Ford" to do a convincing "Han Solo." And since that's not possible...
DeleteZyra, you've stated all my fears about Han's love interest in his standalone film. I do have some hope that they will make his love interest be Sana and we will get to see him swindle her. THAT would be ok with me. Is anyone else terrified that they're casting a black female because they want to make Finn be Han's son? It'd be the final blow Disney could give to his relationship with Leia where she didn't even give him his only child.
DeleteRest easy, RD. It's my understanding that the new Han Solo movie takes place before he meets Luke & Kenobi, so it must date at least to 1BBY (but potentially up to 10BBY when Han would've been c. 19), which means the only way Finn could be the son of Han Solo and this new female lead is if Finn were 35+ years old in TFA.
DeleteThank you, Erin. I know it's stupid but I've been stressing out about the possibility for awhile now. So glad to read your post! Makes me feel much better!
DeleteI understand completely. After TFA, I'm not convinced they *won't* do something really dumb that makes the GFFA a tiny little place populated by a handful of people (such as make Finn related to someone from the OT).
DeleteI'm also realising (with great relief) that I seem to have managed to relegate TFA and all related canon firmly to the "bad fanfic" pile in my head. They can say whatever they want on the screen, but it never happened. In Erin-land, it just...never happened!
I've spent the last few weeks with justinegraham and corellian-angel creating a completely different (albeit slightly ridiculous!) future for Han and Leia, which is one of many I can imagine for them. Although it does make me sad that such a great opportunity to revisit the OT3 has been so thoroughly wrecked by JJA & Co, I'm no worse off than I was before Ep VII came out. Plus, I've rediscovered my love of writing, and rejoined the fanfic community. So there's that! :D
I know I have been the ultimate pessimist for everything relating to Han and Leia going forward, but Finn being Han's son is one of the few things I am not the slightest bit worried about being true. Just, no, no way. For one thing his age is all wrong, if nothing else. I do recall that being a rumor before TFA came out when we found out about Sana. I also remember rumors that Poe was going to be Leia's secret child she had with some other guy while Han was in carbonite. Yeah, no.
DeleteI agree Erin, I think I've successfully in my head just decided that this new stuff doesn't really count and is simply an alternate universe of events. It still makes me mad, but I refuse to let them tell me that was how it went. And as for anyone who comes in and is like, "Well, what about all the other Star Wars fans who agree with it or like it?" My answer is simply that they are entitled to their opinion just as much as I am entitled to mine, and I don't particularly care that they think differently and I will not change my mind.
Yeah I wouldn't worry about that at all. Han and Leia are still together in Bloodline and Disney is not going to have Han cheating on Leia and having an out of wedlock kid - they even made sure Han and Leia were married before Leia got pregnant!
DeleteI don't think new love interest is Sana though because one of the three actresses being considered is half-Indian half-white while the other two are African-American and Sana is clearly black. Plus I don't think there's much precedence for putting an EU character as a main character since like 99% of the GA won't know who she is.
To my surprise, I'm actually getting excited about Rogue One, precisely because I reckon they can't hurt me with it. lol I mean, if they do something ridiculously stupid, like make Han Solo a love interest of Jyn Erso, then I'm out. Otherwise, I'm looking forward to it...although I think I'll make sure to consume all available spoilers to ensure that I don't get blindsided by something like that....
ReplyDeleteI love GFFA and wish we could have more-more-more of it. The galaxy is huge and filled with interesting worlds and sentient beings. There are millions of stories that could be told. I wouldn't necessarily require all of them to be about the Skywalkers (or Han & Leia) to enjoy them. I just need them not to WRECK AND MURDER any of the OT3, or insinuate that they were pathetic losers, and I'll be happy.
I'm with you, Erin! This is the safest movie for me; Ep VIII and IX are tough pills to swallow for H/L fans and the Solo v. Fett movie again messes with a timeline that I'm kind of settled on. So Rogue One? I'm all for it. Bring it on! :)
DeleteShould have read Erin's post before I posted pretty much the same below...
DeleteOkay, I know we've had this exact same conversation over and over and over, but seriously, just look at this picture.
ReplyDeletehttp://imgur.com/gallery/rSc3ZBd
Here's my big -- and getting bigger by the moment -- problem with TPTB regarding Star Wars (and I include Lucas in this problem): they INSIST on telling their backstory in their primary medium (i.e. movies), and by telling their backstory, they inevitably devalue the stories that have already been told on film. There's a reason backstory is backstory - it's because we don't need it to be THE STORY.
ReplyDelete1. Lucas did this with the prequels. Now the prequels and the OT don't line up and the prequels are not all that compelling...because they're backstory and we already know how they end.
2. The Non Solo movie - we don't need to know about Non before Harrison Ford played him and he became Han. The fact that Han's life before Ben and Luke walk in is a mystery is great for that character - all we need to know is that it was a scraping-by, underworld sort of existence that was utterly changed by that encounter.
3. Rogue One - the backstory of how the plans to the Death Star ended up in Leia's hands in ANH. I first saw Star Wars in 1977, and never once in the intervening 40 years have I thought to myself "Huh, you know what, I'd really like to know how they stole those plans." And, after seeing the previews, I still don't - it looks generic to me, I am so tired of Death Stars, Starkillers, and other failed superweapons, and - in the worst problem writers have when they tell their backstory: I KNOW THE OUTCOME. DEATH STAR WENT BOOM 40 YEARS AGO.
Oh, and is everyone in Star Wars going to have daddy issues? Can there be *just a little* creativity? Maybe, you know, Mommy built the Death Star?
Will I see it? Maybe, but I really wish that if SW was going to continue, they would branch out and stop messing with people and things closely related to the original trilogy and the Big Three, as they can only cheapen it. Do what Harry Potter is doing with "Fantastic Creatures" -- take something/someone minor and turn it into something new and major and creative. Qui-Gon's adventures before Skywalkers showed up in his life. Something 400 years before in Yoda's life; an entirely new Jedi/Sith conflict in the days of the Old Republic. Something, anything, that does not relate to the OT in a way to mess it up.
You always give such well thought out responses, Kels. And I agree with everything you've said. You are correct, back stories are back stories for a reason. I had always appreciated that while the old Han Solo trilogy did fill in some blanks it still left his parentage and extremely young life mysterious. I don't know why, I never really wanted to know that. Perhaps partly because I feel like Han might not have even known the truth himself. I like that mystery.
DeleteAnd yeah, they are telling the back story of this thing that happened. But really, while Star Wars is about stuff that happens, it is more importantly about these people who go through this stuff that happens and how they relate to each other and grow and change. I'm not really seeing that in Rogue One, it's just about the stuff.
And you know what? On the opposite side, with TFA it feels like the back story was more interesting than the actual story they decided to tell us. Why not start before Kylo really turned? Watch that happen? Watch Han and Leia deal with it? Maybe THEN move on to what happened in TFA. They left us WAY too many blanks to fill in.
Oh and good call on daddy issues. I think so far Bail Organa is the only father in the whole series who wasn't a huge problem.
Perfect post, Kels.
DeleteI couldn't say anything better.
Ugh, I totally agree! I used to be in the camp of people who could accept the outcome of Episode 7 and where they took Han and Leia in TFA. Nowadays though, I just want to read really good AU fanfic and immerse myself in all the other possible (and in so many cases much much better) outcomes for our OTP. All the side eye to Disney and JJA. Han and Leia deserved to be happy.
DeleteI really think one fundamental problem Disney has is that they always have to pull the big 3 into almost everything they do (whether directly or by reference) because they're the "hook" they use to get audiences to even look at something new. It's like they don't know how to leave well enough alone. Just like they used Han and Harrison as the star power "safety net" just in case the rest of TFA didn't work. And TFA was a success in terms of box office receipts, but I don't think it was as much of a sensation that ANH and the OT were in their day. Just like the prequels made money, but if anything harmed and hindered Hayden Christensen and Natalie Portman's careers rather than launching them as with Carrie, Mark, and Harrison.
It's pretty simple. All of you fine writers need to write more. Give me your head canon for how Han and Leia turned out! I will read it, so happily, and I promise to review! (Especially if it includes lots of hot Han and Leia sex! LOL!)
Yeah, it's so true about TFA. I know a lot of people who saw the movie, but it didn't really make a "big splash" like Star Wars & its sequels did. Only time will tell...
DeleteAlong those lines...before TFA came out, a German grocery chain had a great SW commercial - all playing off Han/Leia:
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3wfTuyOOpA
I think it's interesting - if Star Wars is referenced anywhere, it's all the originals. One of the best cartoons I saw on the election was a New Yorker one with Trump announcing his new advisors - among them the shark from Jaws and Emperor Palpatine
What still gets played everywhere? The Imperial March.
Outside of "That's not how the Force works" (and who said that again?), have you heard any lines quoted from the movie?
I wonder if it's a function of how the movie seemed to make no impression, or that almost no movies seem to make an impression any more. When SW came out, that was IT. It was everywhere. Now, it's "oh, yeah, whatever Avengers movie is number 1 at the box office." Avatar might have been the last kind of zeitgeist movie...and it's dropped off the map.
I really wonder how Rogue One is going to do. I hope it does lousy but that's my vindictiveness ;-) I saw a lot of promotion for it during the Olympics and I see merchandise in the stores, but more often, I see, as someone said up thread, people wondering where the Ep VII characters are - the most rage inducing thing I saw was the Entertainment Weekly cover that said "34 years before The Force Awakens" but I guess they have to, since people will be looking for Rey and Finn.
Um. Anyone else notice the shirt (and jacket) the lead guy is wearing at 2:02 in the trailer posted above? Wonder how long fashion trends last in the GFFA... :)
ReplyDeleteJust announced by Disney that Donald Glover will play young Lando. Filming of the pointless movie will start in January.
ReplyDeleteYes, I saw that. This is one small piece of good news that really does nothing to make me excited for the movie, but at least it doesn't make me angry.
DeleteHas anyone else been out shopping lately? There is already so much Rogue One merchandise out there. I mean, even with TFA it seemed a little out of hand to have so much stuff out there months before a movie none of us had even seen about characters we didn't even know yet. But this just seems even worse. So much stuff I don't care about buying, and can't imagine anyone else caring about buying either. And I don't think the movie is really going to make people want to buy it either.
ReplyDeleteIt's such a big, greedy grab for money; there's no escaping it.
DeleteThe worst thing is, for Christmas last year my dear father-in-law thought, "Oh, I know! ErinDarroch is a big fan of Star Wars! I'll buy her some stuff with that new guy on it...what's his name? Kylo Ren! Yeah, she'll LOVE that...."
Can you IMAGINE my horror!? I think I deserve an Academy award for how masterfully I portrayed a woman utterly delighted with her Christmas gifts and not at all on the verge of vomiting. :P
Otoh, I was gratified to see loads of Kylo Ren merchandise in the cut-rate bargain bins a few months later, marked down to pennies on the pound.
The thing is, they don't really care what people want; they just cast the net wide, rake in what profits they can and write off the rest.
Whatever.
*Takes a sip of tea from her Han & Leia mug*
:D
I think it's interesting - KR used to be on EVERY piece of SW merch as part of the branding. Not so much anymore - the new stuff I'm seeing just has the logo (although I did see, wait for it, a Han Solo mug with KR on the package!)
DeleteI read Kylo Ren is the #1 Halloween costume this year. I really don't get all the worship of him. Vader was at least ruthless and efficient. Kylo just came across as a whiney entitled brat.
ReplyDeleteThen again, I don't find Adam Driver particularly attractive the way a lot of his fans do so maybe that's the problem? How did Han and Leia get such a brat for a son?
Joining in the frey (some of you will know me as culturevulture73). Like a lot of posters, after TFA, I don't have any belief in anything Disney does - I haven't bought the new books or comics - I'm sorry, I don't want to know how they get to the hellscape that is TFA because that's not my canon. The only reason I'm seeing 8 is for Mark and Carrie and the vain hope they might have been playing us and Han is alive...
ReplyDeleteAs for Rogue One, no, I'm not seeing it unless it comes by me on TV. I honestly don't care about how the Death STar plans got anywhere, but they might have gotten me in the theater except for the nightmare that was TFA. And I have no confidence they won't destroy the OT 3 further - these new people will be the "heroes" of the Death STar, not Luke, Han and Leia - they're already talking about a "rebellion built on hope" when LUKE is the New Hope. I think it's also funny that they're selling the trading cards for the movie by intermixing OT trading cards, including actor signature cards (Hamill, Ford, Denis Lawson were all in the ads I saw)
And the less I hear about the new Han movie, the better. After Kasdan stood by and let Han be killed, I'm going to see a movie he wrote? And the LEGO guys had Batman steal the Falcon from Han, Lando and Luke in their movie...so no. I honestly feel sorry for the new Han and Lando because I don't know how you follow Harrison Ford and Billy Dee Williams. It's going to be worse than being George Lazenby after Sean Connery...
Great post.
DeleteIs there a way to set up a fic rec list? I've got some to recommend across all the pairings and I'd love to read some quality fic. It's just any more, most of the time when I hit a Han/Leia (or Luke/Han) story anymore at AO3, they aren't even in it, it's some tag spam so that someone's Reylo or Kylux story will be hit (or worse, the OT3 are character assassinated). It's getting tiring.
ReplyDeleteThe best way I've found to find fic that appeals to me is to plunder the FFNet "favorites" lists of authors whose work I admire and/or readers who recommend other fics to me based on having read my stories or reviews I've left elsewhere.
DeletePersonally, the only pairing I'm interested in reading about is Han/Leia, and I don't want to read anything whatsoever to do with either one of them hooking up with someone else --- and especially not Luke! Holy kamoly. I don't get the appeal of incest fic AT ALL and really don't want to encounter even a summary of it. So I tread very carefully and, really, don't read much that isn't recommended to me by people I trust, whose sensibilities align with mine.
That means I don't read very broadly, I suppose, but my time for such things is limited anyway. When I get an hour to myself and want to read SW fic instead of write it, I'd rather not waste a minute of it on stuff that's not to my taste. The favorites lists of other authors has, so far, been a good source of that for me.
I've also come across one or two "communities" on FFNet that purport to curate fic, but they're not really any different than a favorites list, as far as I can see.
For older fic recs, you could try personal sites like Sue Zahn's "You Could Use a Good Kiss" (http://www.useakiss.com/) or Aquarius-1977's "Nerfherder's Playground", but I don't think either of those is being updated regularly.
As for posting your own recs, I don't know. Someone else may have better ideas....
You can recommend whatever you want. I will say though that based on the admittedly limited responses we got to the "tolerance level" post, I'm not sure you'll get a lot of interest on fics that aren't focused on Han ad Leia. At least around here, where that's kind of our thing. The beauty of fanfic is we can do whatever we want and there are probably plenty of people who will want to read about it. But I'm not sure you would see a lot of interest in lists for fics that aren't about Han and Leia. But you can feel free to suggest things and maybe others will offer opinions as well.
DeleteSince I suggested it and someone above asked for fic, I'll see what I can round up - I'm just looking for something that doesn't have a certain villain in it, considering it seems like every story these days does. Or, it seems every story is one that lists the OT3 in it and then...they aren't.
ReplyDeleteIf I do offer suggestions, I tag for every pairing. Of course, the worst thing I read lately was a suggested Han/Leia story that started with Han being tortured and graphically. As someone who gets subjected to GIF sets of Han's death pretty much weekly (for awhile there it was HOURLY. I'm not even exaggerating), that's the warnings I want...
Thanks for the FF net suggestion - I have such trouble making it search anything, I pretty much don't check it unless someone sends me there.
So, a rec - one I thought was so well done but I don't see rec'd much:
Estimated Time of Departure - set right after New Hope, lovely story of why Han sticks around, leans Han/Leia but no real pairing as yet. Lovely grace notes of Han with both Luke and Leia. I really love a good Han characterization and I thought this was one, plus Leia and Luke seem right to me. I wish the author had written more SW. Their other work is pure Han/Leia.
http://archiveofourown.org/works/32745
Anybody else in the US catching the prequels on TV this weekend? You know sometimes I wonder if we are unfairly cruel about them. And then you watch them again, and they are actually even worse than you remember. It's really amazing how much HEART the OT has, when the prequels are 100% lacking that at all. I mean just aside from the bad acting and excessive CGI. It's like nobody is even human in it. And hardly anyone speaks a line where you really feel like it is a natural thing that someone would say. Just so, so bad.
ReplyDeleteYou guys, the bad Star Wars movies outnumber the good ones.
But the good ones are REALLY good.
DeleteI plan a rewatch soon... BTW New Hope is on tonight at 8:05 Eastern on TBS, and the whole OT is on tomorrow starting at 12:30 PM. There are a lot of prequel fans out there, so I want to try them again. I remember not feeling much of anything after seeing each one so they've got that much up on TFA ;-) I do want to try to watch all six in order this time.
DeleteI'm gonna cut George some slack. For one thing, he didn't make 7-9 partially because he got so much crap for the prequels.
Also because his idea for 7, so far as I know, was that Han and Leia had two good kids and were together - the "Jedi Killer" was not their child. And Luke was around too, I believe - they were supposed to be supporting roles - which is what Mark, Harrison & Carrie all signed for, not the hellscape of TFA.
And you KNOW if George had made TFA, the dudebros who think JJ gave them back their childhood would be screaming for his head for how similar it was to Ep IV. But it's okay for JJ to do that - he gets praised for it!
I do have to state for the record that I do agree with dudebros on one thing - Han should not have gone out like that (well, not at ALL but esp not like that). If he had seen Luke again, if we'd gotten one scene of them all together, if he'd reconciled with Leia, and died defending the Skywalker Twins? I'd've been okay with that. But not this...
And yes, iluvkoalas, I totally agree!
DeleteGreat post, cv73.
DeleteI've said before I could've accepted Han's death under different circumstances. Can you imagine him going out heroically? Saving his wife and/or children? THAT I could see. TFA though? Are you kidding? Sorry, no.
DeleteYeah Lucas' original treatments sounded way more as I envisioned the Big Three's future. Leia was a Senator, Han was a retired general, Luke had a Jedi school and Han and Leia had two kids (daughter Force sensitive and son non Force sensitive). Jedi Killer was unrelated (which to me sounds like a way better idea if you want to woobify him - crap all over his parents and say it's not his fault he turned Dark because his parents didn't pay enough attention to him? Sure! Who cares, we don't know his parents!) Han and Leia had minor supporting roles sending their daughter off on a Jedi quest and the kids were the main heroes.
DeleteBut then JJ had to get his grubby hands on it and being the ANH Han Solo fanboy that he is had to revert everyone back to their ANH personalities and reset the galaxy back to Rebellion v Empire. No wonder Lucas openly dislikes TFA - I think one of the big things that bothered him about it is making the heroes unrelated to the Big Three and the only offspring of them being the Jedi Killer.
Going to make one big post...Zyra, total agreement (although I'd add Luke too - if Han had gone out for Luke and Leia - and had seen Luke again...yeah. But this BS? Nope). Iluvokoalas, thanks!
DeleteEwokkey, I wish that's what we'd gotten. I would have been happy to go to three movie and see Luke, Han and Leia on the sidelines, while the kids were the main heroes. I'd've been happy as a clam to see them happy or at least together against evil. But this garbage - ugh. I can't even with it. And here's JJ the big fanboy - so why in the hell doesn't he get Luke together with Han and Leia one more time? It's bananas - he's such a big ANH fan and that whole movie turns on the three of them together! But no, let's just kill Han for stupid reasons and turn Luke into Yoda and Leia, well, she's too busy for her kid or to train to be a Jedi. Because we can only have one girl Jedi and she's the bestest ever! (sorry, as more months go by on Tumblr and I have to see post after post calling Rey a Jedi when LUKE is the Jedi and posts saying she's not a Mary Sue when she can do everything better than everyone and hey, Leia will hug her despite not even knowing her? I'm sick to death of her and all the other new characters).
One interesting thing I really liked about Lucas' story treatments was the idea of Han and Leia having this non Force sensitive wise cracking pilot like Han. I always felt a little bad for Han in the old EU that all his kids turned into Jedi. That character later developed into Finn/Poe. I mean you have the coolest genes in the galaxy and you get in Darth Emo? Argh.
DeleteI don't think JJ's much of a Luke fan. In his interviews it's all about how Han is the coolest. Of course he means irresponsible smuggler ANH Han, grown up Han in ROTJ is boring (rolls eyes).
When I read the opening crawl, and it was "the Resistance's best pilot" I finished it with Han Solo before Poe's name scrowled up. Honestly? Oscar Isaac looks more like Harrison and Carrie's kid than Adam Driver.
DeleteIf JJ thinks Han is the coolest, how could he do that to him? And make him into a coward (and Luke into one!). That's not those characters. Even in ANH, he's a coward in that he doesn't want to get involved with the rebellion (okay he runs from the stormtroopers but who wouldn't?) but he comes back to save Luke (and by extension Leia). He's leaving in Empire because he has to pay off Jabba and he's been there three years already. Then Jedi?
I just see the characterizations and roll my eyes. Kennedy made some comment that they were worried about Harrison getting Han back (seriously?) and then he did. Well, he got back this regressed version of Han handed to him. How much better would it have been to have the three of them handed their actual characters back, and how they would have been after years of peace, coming back to a war?
Ewokkey, that's exactly how I feel.
ReplyDeleteZyra, I totally agree.
For those curious here's Jar Jar's commentary on some of the Han/Leia scenes in TFA:
ReplyDeleteOn the scene at the Resistance:
“This scene, like many in the film,was actually shot twice. And the scene as it lives now is a kind of amalgam of the two versions. In fact, if you watch their performances, you see the backgrounds shift a bit throughout the scene. You’re watching two parents grappling over an incredibly difficult child. And, I think, that’s a very relatable parental conversation. To see it between Han and Leia, I think, was particularly interesting. And you just see how what happened with their son, Ben, it really ripped them apart. When Leia mentions Supreme Leader Snoke, you realise that they are aware of this figure that is responsible for seducing their son over to the dark side. And you realise that Han has been on the run trying to get away from this this whole time. And in this moment, Leia implores Han not to give up. To do anything he can to save their son.”
On their good-bye scene:
“This scene between Han and Leia, like so many, we shot two times. And we wanted to make it more of a quiet understanding, that this was the last time they will see each other. There used to be a moment when Han said, “There’s something I wanted to tell you since I left.” She stops him and she says, “Tell me when you get back.” And it just was too on the nose. Too clearly a sense that they both knew this was a goodbye. Instead we just have this sweet moment. And he takes her into his arms.”
Shot two times, both scenes. Well, that explains why they played so wonky....
DeleteAnd I already had to read the Reylos crowing about Rey and Kylo's special relationship, and JJ saying "Oh, Kylo made his saber himself" - yeah, Jar Jar, I guess since you don't like Jedi, you didn't bother to see the deleted scenes where Luke made his own saber - it's what Jedi do.
I dread 8 more and more each day. I'm sure Luke's character is next to be trashed before they kill him. Because Kathleen Kennedy loves Luke. Sure she does. Same way she's "protecting" Star Wars.
Well I suppose that could have been worse judging from JJ's other comments about how Han and Leia sucked as a couple and how Han was a shit husband and father.
DeleteHe really makes it sound like Han is a coward who runs away from everything though. For a huge fan of the character he doesn't seem to think too highly of him.
On the scene at the Resistance:
DeleteJJ: “This scene, like many in the film,was actually shot twice.”
Kels: So…we mean actual reshoots, not takes? That says a lot about how much script was written on the fly.
JJ: “And the scene as it lives now is a kind of amalgam of the two versions. In fact, if you watch their performances, you see the backgrounds shift a bit throughout the scene. You’re watching two parents grappling over an incredibly difficult child.”
Kels: I was actually watching two actors grappling with incredibly expository dialogue that made little dramatic or logical sense.
JJ: “And, I think, that’s a very relatable parental conversation. To see it between Han and Leia, I think, was particularly interesting. And you just see how what happened with their son, Ben, it really ripped them apart.”
Kels: Correction. It WOULD have been interesting to see it between Han and Leia if that was actually the scene as written or played. And this comment seems a little too Mary Sue, JJ.
JJ: “When Leia mentions Supreme Leader Snoke, you realise that they are aware of this figure that is responsible for seducing their son over to the dark side. And you realise that Han has been on the run trying to get away from this this whole time.”
Kels: I didn’t realize that. It looked to me like Leia had figured the Snoke thing out while they were apart and Han was being told for the first time that Snoke was responsible for seducing Kylo. I also had zero awareness that Han was trying to get away from the difficulty of knowing that Snoke had seduced his son and I’m going to bet, from his reaction when Carrie Fisher said that it was Snoke, Harrison Ford also had zero awareness that Han knew about Snoke seducing the kid. I thought Han had run because…well, because…no one ever gave a decent reason so we had to make it up ourselves. My reason was that the writers didn’t think very hard. Because one thing I know about Han Solo is that THE ONLY DIRECTION HAN WOULD RUN IF HE KNEW THE IDENTITY OF THE PERSON DESTROYING HIS SON IS DIRECTLY AT THE EVILDOER, EVEN IF HE HAD NO CHANCE OF WINNING THAT FIGHT (see: Bespin, Yavin, Death Star)
JJ: “And in this moment, Leia implores Han not to give up. To do anything he can to save their son.”
Kels: Which begs the question of why she was leading the organization that was trying to kill their son, and doing eff-all to bring her kid back, when she was the Force-sensitive parent and thus the only one who really could save their son. That all seemed really weak and un-Leia-like to me.
On their good-bye scene:
JJ: “This scene between Han and Leia, like so many, we shot two times. And we wanted to make it more of a quiet understanding, that this was the last time they will see each other. There used to be a moment when Han said, “There’s something I wanted to tell you since I left.” She stops him and she says, “Tell me when you get back.” And it just was too on the nose. Too clearly a sense that they both knew this was a goodbye. Instead we just have this sweet moment. And he takes her into his arms.”
Kels: That doesn’t make sense either, JJ. (1) If you know you’re saying goodbye to your spouse forever, the LAST thing you do is tell him to hold onto something until they he gets back…because you know he's not coming back, get it? So if she had said “tell me when you get back,” it’s an indication that she still is holding out hope for him to come back. It is too on-the-nose for the audience when they see him die, but for the characters in the moment, those lines would be holding out hope and (2) if Leia knew in that scene that they would never see each other again, then she knew he was going to die, and she STILL didn't go with him to help, choosing instead to stand uselessly at a monitor for twenty minutes. This is the woman who put aside the Rebellion to go to Jabba's Palace and rescue him? She didn't think it was equally important to do the same for him/their son (who has the potential to become an even bigger problem than he is in TFA)?
Come on, JJ, use your brain.
Kels, you are so right on point! Yes! Perfect.
DeleteEspecially - exactly - Han and Leia would be running AT Snoke if they knew. And hell, so would Luke. Those three would have fueled up the Falcon and gone kamikaze on wherever Snoke was. These people took on Vader, the Emperor and Jabba the Hutt, pretty much on their own. You think Leia, the angriest princess in the universe, wouldn't walk into Snoke's throne room and rip his heart out of his chest? Han? Luke? Droid please (another of the deathless lines that turned TFA into a superhero movie).
The other thing that bothers me...Han says to Kylo "he'll use your power and destroy you." Where in the hell does Han get this from? It's not what the Emperor did to Vader or wanted to do to Luke. So how does Han, the non Force sensitive (or so they keep insisting), know this?
Kels, you are the best. You take our general ranting and remind us that it is more than just random ranting against something we didn't want to see, but it just plain doesn't even make sense. And reminding me that it has always bothered me that the commentary on the scene and the way the actors are playing it are completely different from one another. This is never going to stop being frustrating.
DeleteAwww, thanks. :)
DeleteWhen I was tossing and turning last night, I started thinking about all this again. Am I right in thinking that, in the scene that JJ alleges is the scene in which Han and Leia know they are saying goodbye forever, Leia's last line is something along the lines of, "If you see our son, bring him home?"
If I'm accurate (and no promises I am, haven't seen the hellscape - and I love that word for TFA, cv73 - that is TFA since it was in theatres), think about how utterly and totally that does not line up with what the JJ is alleging the characters know in that scene.
It really boggles my mind that a writer/director of so much renown could be so unclear on what the hell is in the script he is directing and wrote, and what the characters motivations are. This is just total BS on his part. I'm not sure I've ever seen an emperor's new clothes type who is this totally naked.
I was also thinking that the whole Han/Leia estrangement could have been so much better handled if in that scene in the base (the one that JJ ascribes all sorts of importance to when all they are doing is reading dialogue at each other comprised of exposition and things the characters already would have said to each other yeaaaars ago) if something like this happened:
Leia: There's still good in him, I'm sure of it.
Han (a bit bitterly): But you STILL decided to form the resistance instead of moving heaven and earth to save our son.
Leia: Yes...and it cost me everything.
Han: Yeah. Me too. Because you knew that I was powerless to save him alone.
Ok, shitty first draft dialogue there, and I'm not saying that I would have liked something like that any better - I think the whole story of TFA and what it did to the Big Three and the Han/Leia relationship and its outcome is a flaming tire fire, but something like that would tell us EXACTLY what the split Han and Leia up and we don't need to make sh!t up from expository dialogue and lines that would have earned a big red "CLICHE" written next to them by your film school prof. We don't need the BS about Leia seeing Kylo everytime she looked at Han (that is cliche to the 1000th degree) or there being too much "Vader" in him (I mean, duh, they knew that was a risk when they had a kid, no?)
Anyway...midnight thoughts. They don't make the movie's overall arc any better, but back in film school I learned that specificity is better than unmotivated cliche ALL THE TIME.
That should be "what split Han and Leia up"
DeleteKels, I love "flaming tire fire" because, yes!
DeleteHonestly, I think Abrams is the Emperor-iest New Clothes director ever. What he did to Trek and now Wars from a franchise perspective is appalling. But he seems a personable guy (Speilberg, Ford, Stephen Colbert) and he makes money, so hey, why shouldn't he get franchise after franchise to destroy?
As you said above, how much better a story is it if Han and Leia and Luke solve their problems - and you know they would! instead of waiting around. That's the characters we know.
I'm with Lucas - the Jedi Killer should not be their child. Again. You could still have the First Order and the downfall of the New Republic and, oh, yeah, a bit of politics - have Leia fighting to get things done - one exposition scene could explain it! The CRAWL could explain it! where everything goes bad and she founds the Resistance with Han and Luke. They're underground. Luke takes Han and Chewie with him to find a new potential new knight - Rey. Meantime, Poe gets captured for plans of something, breaks out Finn and they all end up on Jakku. Kylo Ren could still be one of Luke's students or hell, he could be a NEW person with Snoke. Maybe old pals of the Emperor..
Lookie there, everyone's in place and if you still want to have the science disaster of Starkiller, that'll work. But you've got Luke, Han and Leia together and fighting back - which is what I expected. You've got your new characters. If you're so scared that they'll be over shadowed by the oldies, maybe the oldies head out midway to go find Snoke and that's your damn cliffhanger until the next one - they're determined to sacrifice themselves to stop the baddies so that the new kids can save the galaxy.
There is NO reason to make Kylo their kid and break them up and destroy all their characters to set up the new characters. Because if you're going to invert Luke-Vader...oops, you killed off the father and also made sure his other two blood relatives are not going to be interested in redeeming him and most of your older audience isn't either.
And if they seriously are going to sell us Rey redeems Kylo, she has to be Luke's child with someone we've never met, that he left in the desert, or she's Han and Leia's child that they forgot about while also not doing much about Kylo.
Again, who are these people? They seem to be played by Hamill, Ford and Fisher but they sure as hell aren't Luke, Han and Leia. Well, they aren't the characters we left in Jedi. They're exposition delivering, "mythic" joke machines. If you wanted a myth, good Lord, just look at those three actors - the war they fought is in their eyes and faces. Mark Hamill pretty much acted all the newbies right off the damn screen with 30 seconds of screen time (IMO). I would have gone to the theater 8 billion times to see him and Ford and Fisher together. I'd've bought the old Blu Ray and hey, ponied up to get the commentary, if that had happened.
But I'm not the demo they want, despite the fact I have money with which to purchase things. So be it, Sith Lords of Disney.
I'm glad for the most part I am no longer kept up late thinking about all of this insanity. I was a mess for weeks after I saw this movie!
DeleteVery good point that if Leia supposedly KNEW that was the last time she was going to see Han... uh, send him off for his death? What? Thanks again also for the reminder that their dialog to each other fell under only two categories: expository or cliche. I did not read spoilers for those scenes, but I swear I could just FEEL that he was going to say, "Some things never change, huh?" I mean, seriously, what the hell? There are so many things wrong with all of the dialog. And I still resent the "...no matter how much we fought..." line. It just slams home the fact that everything about Han and Leia in the OT was now just to create a new villain. That's it.
I so agree with this post, Zyra!
DeleteI think the most frustrating thing for me is the shallowness of thought that overlays the whole affair as a piece of storytelling. I have a bee in my bonnet about it again this week because someone was watching it on a plane next to me this weekend, and I wanted to grab the guy and say "turn that cr@p off!" (Speaking of cr#p, I watched Independence Day: Resurgence on the plane, which was another film trying to convince the audience that the poop they were peddling was actually chocolate.)
DeleteThere were a million ways to make it convincing that Han and Leia were the progenitors of the new villain while not just making their whole OT arc irrelevant. The EU already did it! I mean, they were set up by ROTJ to get married and have kids. So lots of ways one of them could turn. Would have been fantastic if TFA were the movie in which we watched Han, Leia, and Luke be helpless to prevent that turn of a Force-sensitive child, and Han dying in an attempt to save him (or her, which would have been a hugely interesting twist). I completely could have gotten aboard with that story, as gut-wrenching as it would be, as long as there was another child around to be the Jaina character.
It is almost MORE difficult to make H/L's production of a villain as unconvincing, cliche, vague, unmotivated, and pointless as TFA given aaaallll they had to work with. So I guess I should give them props for that; it is really hard to be that incompetent given all the backstory that was handed to them on a silver platter.
Well, I still wouldn't want Han to die ;-) but yes, if you were going to make them give birth to the villain, couldn't we see how they got to that point? And not make them villains to get there??? Because right now, JJ set it up so our "unreliable narrator" Kylo is RELIABLE. Yep, they always fought and they never had time for him and they split up - I just do not understand it to this day!
DeleteI saw ID4 too, and yeah, it was a clunky concoction but two things - people died heroically and they just didn't plan big enough for the aliens coming back - it wasn't that they didn't do anything or failed and let it happen (also, if Liam H was playing Young Han, I might reconsider. Boy's got the correct swagger). There was an attempt to let the people fight back and not fail because...oh, wait, they did nothing and weren't prepared. Which is what TFA wants us to believe.
I have to agree with you there - as much as I found ID4-2 dull and clunky (good word for it), I wasn't offended by the way they treated the returning characters. They were still behaving in ways that were believable to the characters after their ID4 arcs, and the film didn't ask you to take on faith a backstory that seems incongruent to the characters you knew or the story they were telling. They just didn't manage to write an interesting story. Which is less offensive than what TFA did, in the end.
DeleteAnd I had the same thought about Liam Hemsworth. I still think the only way to see a young Han Solo is in an animated film, but Hemsworth's charm/arrogance ratio is very right.
DeleteOh I agree on the animated Han - if it was LEGO Han Solo, so Harrison and Billy Dee could do the voices? I might reconsider (I'm still mad as hell at Kasdan tho so...). But yeah, glad I'm not alone on Hemsworth - my long time friend and the person who got me into SW saw ID4 with me and had the same thought - he would work as Young Han.
DeleteAnd yeah, well, if you think about it, TFA didn't have an interesting story either - it had the same plot as Ep 4 pretty much, but told in a way less interesting version. When Luke looks at the binary sunset, I know that character (also it's a lovely shot). Rey puts on her rebellion helmet and I'm just puzzled. Why is she putting on that helmet? I get nothing out of it. And on and on. I perk up when the old characters show up but their story is so slipshod - as you said a mix of exposition and cliche (the only bit that works, and that's purely because of Ford's delivery as the actual story is a mess, is Han talking about Luke). Threepio's appearance is just a clunker. R2 - why does he shut down? Who knows?
The whole plot's like that "well, then this happened." Okay, why? "That's a story for another time." I wish Han had just slapped Maz at that point - first for handing the saber to FINN not HAN and second for not explaining where the saber came from. It's just as clunky that we cut from Maz asking about Rey to Rey so that we miss Han's explanation but that's typical of the script. Gotta have a mystery box, gotta follow the plot of 4 because this generation needs its own New Hope - uh, why? I didn't require a new Casablanca when I was this new generation's age, I watched the old one. It's not like Star Wars is black and white or even slow (although I saw one commentor on Tumblr talk about the terrible pacing - seriously?) I'm not asking them to watch Hiroshima Mon Amour or even Gone with the Wind. Why do they have to have their own New Hope? Why not give them something new?
But I have hope. Watching The Flash last night, again, another reference to Empire. (there was a big one in Civil War and the Winter Soldier torture of Bucky is based on Han's in Empire). I'm hoping quality will win out...
It was such an opportunity to wipe the slate clean on the old EU. But they just took the worst elements of it, somehow made them even worse, and eliminated the good things from it. I do agree it could've all been interesting to watch this character turn, and yes if they HAD to kill Han, have it happen somewhere in this story, with another "good" child.
DeleteI had been really excited for ID4 and was crushed to hear how truly awful it apparently is. Not that I expected fine cinema, as the original isn't exactly Oscar-worthy, but it was fun, and I still watch it when it's on TV. I was hoping for something at least close to that, which apparently we did not get, not even close. Oh well.
I still just think it's wrong to have anyone else be Han, ever. I actually feel that way about Luke and Leia too, while we're at it.
I still don't even see why the Jedi Killer had to be their child. ANOTHER Skywalker goes bad? At this 50% failure rate Luke and Leia should just sterilize themselves and let their lineage die out. I mean we have a pair of Skywalkers work their entire lives to serve the greater good (in the case of Leia to the detriment of her being a good wife and mother) only to have their offspring wipe that all out and murder millions more. I think Lucas had the right idea of having the main character be Han and Leia's Jedi daughter, a son who's non Force sensitive who can be the wisecracking sidekick, and the two of them teaming up together to bring down the non related Jedi Killer. Han and Leia could appear briefly as cameos seeing their children off. But no, JJ had to letter his inner fanboy have Han Solo as one of the main characters.
DeleteAnd that "no matter how much we fought, I always hated seeing you leave" line, ugh. It's been a while since I've seen a line overanalyzed and misinterpreted to that extent. No, it did not mean Han and Leia had screaming fights and then Han stormed off abandoning poor Ben. If it did, then Leia's expression and performance make no sense in her delivery of the whole line. It makes even less sense when Carrie gives her commentary about how Han and Leia were "wrong" for each other, when her performance didn't portray that at all. Sigh....
Well, I think with Carrie, it's the same as Harrison and Mark talking about what great scripts they were handed - gotta promote the picture, can't say anything against it. They made jokes about George's dialogue and look where that got everyone.
DeleteThe whole characterization of everyone in TFA and I guess in the ST going forward is just ridiculous. But most people don't care, it's just roll into the movie and roll back out. I know the mundanes I talked to couldn't have cared less about Han dying - it's just another movie. And that's what Disney's counting on - those people & the new fans who don't care about the old movies. But the problem I see is that they're still trying using the OT in merchandise and reusing their characters.
So....why turn them into lousy parents? I mean, even if you were going to kill Han - you're still making movies with his younger version, so why do I want to see him young when this is how he ends up old? They don't want me to go to Young Han, they want the Rey and Finn fans - who only see Han as old and beat down and a loser. It's just nuts. I don't see how Kathleen Kennedy is "protecting Star Wars." It's a disservice to Mark, Harrison and Carrie, who were good soldiers and came back for George, then he gets shoved out of the picture and they get to preside over the destruction of their characters. Carrie has signed things as Mrs. Han Solo for years, from what I'm told. So if she's saying that they were wrong for each other, I'm sure she was told to tow the party line. FFS, Harrison appeared on a Disney special advertising the new Star Wars Land. I have to wonder if they have his grandchildren under guard somewhere.
Oh and Zyra, totally agree that there is NO reason to recast Luke or Leia and I don't want anyone else in those parts either (the only other Han I'll accept is Perry King but the radio show is no longer canon either so...)
DeleteYeah, ID4 is kinda creaky but it's refreshing to see people go down in heroic deaths, not sacrificed so that their lousy kid can have his exisential crisis. I saw this piece of art on Tumblr today of Kylo thinking about the family and crying. Well, that's your fault now isn't it, Darth Emo?
Just noticed that this commentary does confirm Han was the one to leave - he says "There's something I've wanted to tell you since I left." Before we weren't sure if Han was the one to leave or if Leia went underground with the Resistance first.
ReplyDeleteWhich would confirm my theory that at least the resistance knew him even if he didn't do any resistance work. It just wouldn't make sense that they didn't know who he was from the way he was able to be at the forefront of the resistance in TFA.
Deleteiluvkoalas I had never considered that the whole "nobody knows Ben Solo is Kylo Ren" doesn't really make sense until you mentioned it. I was too busy I guess dealing with ALL of the other things that don't make sense, lol. But you're so right. Everyone would know Han and Leia's son, then suddenly new bad guy shows up and Han leaves and people aren't going to connect the dots? What?
DeleteAnd I didn't ever think it was unclear that Han ran away based on one viewing of TFA. That was one of the few things I thought was fairly obvious, that he had run away when it all went down.
That Han and Luke would run - Han who got frozen and tortured for them and Luke who threw his saber away in front of the Emperor, run from Emo Boy? It still doesn't make any sense.
DeleteMy consolation, though, is that no one seems to be quoting the new movie (outside of Harrison's line) or involved in it. It's just another superhero franchise now, and I was telling someone we'll probably live to see another Han after this NuHan and two new Luke and Leias and Landos. They'll keep reusing the OT characters until the franchise is beaten into the ground - but I think they're going to hit franchise fatigue rather quickly.
Zyra,
DeleteI meant that the resistance knew who Han was.
I'm not sure about Kylo.
Pablo confirmed a while back that the general public thinks Ben Solo perished in the Jedi purge around the same time Luke disappeared and very few know Ben is Kylo. Most of Leia's friends probably think Han and Leia separated due to the death of their son.
DeleteThe problem is we just had an entire book where Leia kept this huge secret from her closest friends and colleagues (that Vader was her biological father) and it completely blew up in her face, ruined most of her friendships and ended her political career. The idea she'd lie again to those who remained loyal to her despite he Vader revelation and started the Resistance with her doesn't sit well with me. This will also inevitably blow up in poor Leia's face.
Yeah, that really bothered me, that they're going to sell us that Leia didn't tell BEN about Vader. I can see them trying to keep it quiet from others (what happens in the old EU? Who knows?) But not tell Ben....when Luke and Leia were lied to their whole lives? It makes zero sense.
DeleteBut hey, they haven't destroyed Leia's character enough yet, so I agree with Ewokkey, I'm sure that will blow up in her face.
In the early EU, Luke was being a butt about it and kept trying to force Leia to deal with Vader being their father and have her kids trained as Jedi, but Leia never kept anything from the kids.
DeleteIt's so hard to keep all of this ridiculous insanity straight. Thanks for clearing some of that up for me.
Delete