Wednesday, March 21, 2012

Be Careful What You Ask For...

Han at the BBQ

I swear I remember seeing an interview with George Lucas where he stated that if post-ROTJ Han and Leia had just lived happily ever after with Han BBQ’ing in the backyard, that no one would want to read about it.  He was defending what we all know as the horrendous treatment that Han and Leia received in the EU.  At the time, I remember feeling as if George was wrong, knowing that I would love to read about Han grilling up some dogs and swigging a beer with Leia plump and pregnant in the background. 

But would I really?

Zyra and I have even talked about this in our own stories.  About how often we kidnap or torture or just generally cause havoc to our favorite couple all in the name of a good plot.  Let’s face it, it’s kinda hard to write more than a oneshot on just plain and pure fluff and/or smut.  And as much as I like to read about a warm and fuzzy moment between our favorite pair, if you expect to keep me hooked for any lengthy amount of time, you’d better have more than just the bedroom or BBQ going for you.

(Oh, but I did find a pic of Han's grill-of-choice):


The reason I was thinking about all of this is because of our recent conversations on what the end of the ‘Fate of the Jedi’ series means to Han and Leia.  With no more plot, no more kidnappings and princely suitors and Chief-of-State responsibilities, we are all prepared for our two darlings to ‘ride off into the sunset’.  Well, if we hadn’t have had all those kidnappings and princely suitors and Chief-of-State responsibilities, this day would’ve come a whole lot sooner, wouldn’t it have? 

So was it all worth it? 

Sure we’d all change a few things here and there.  DEFINITELY no Sith or dead children, but what about everything else?  What about COPL?  Would we have gotten an entire book about Han and Leia’s ‘courtship’ if there hadn’t been some stupid excitement?  Probably not.

I’ve got to tell you, now that it seems the time has come for Han to strike up the BBQ pit, I’m kinda regretting ever longing for it.  I mean, couldn’t Leia have some late-in-life baby like on Family Ties?  Maybe Han could try something death-defying stunt with the Falcon, like Fonzie jumping the shark? 

Something? 

Anything?

Anybody?

46 comments:

  1. I get what you mean. Every writing book read will tell you that you have to make your characters suffer, give them some trouble to deal with. I know I'm guilty of it as well when thinking of story ideas. And I think it was Claire that said, what we put poor Han and Leia through.

    They probably could have written some drama without killing off their sons or at least not both of them. They could have written COPL with some intrigue and without all the drivel. Perhaps Isolder kidnapped Leia. Or Imperial remnants start acting up around the same time and disrupt the wedding plans. They could have given them the same treatment as Luke's wedding. (sorry if turning this into COPL rant).

    I'm not ready for them to ride off just yet. It won't be the same. And there's probably a lot they could write set when H and L are younger.

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  2. I knew you'd want another excuse to use that picture ;)

    I know the interview you're talking about, they asked George what they'd be doing after ROTJ and Han would be grilling burgers in the back yard for everyone, just hanging out. Now I will say that it's kind of hard to think about Han and Leia sort of retiring off into the sunset. Even harder because if you read the book, we don't even really know where they're going to go. It's like, I feel like they deserve some peace and quiet, but I just can't see them being happy totally alone on some planet hanging around the house all day reading or something. It's just not THEM. Maybe Jaina will give them some grandchildren and they can become "granny nannies" in much the same way they were with Allana, without all of the deception and pretending they're the parents. It would be nice to see them get a grandson especially, since their boys are gone.

    Was it worth it? The thing is, I don't know. I'm so torn about all of it because it's like you want them to live calm, happy lives but how do they make a book out of that? They don't. I suppose we can assume that a few of the larger gaps left in the timeline would indicate that they were just hanging out in peaceful times that weren't worth writing about. So Han grilling burgers and stuff would just have happened "off screen." On the other hand, while we want SOME excitement, killing their kids may have gone a bit overboard.

    Regretting longing for it? I don't really feel that way. I'm sort of sad that I feel like THEIR story is "over" but that would have to happen sometime, right? If not by peace, then by death and I'd rather see it this way. They're OLD. There's just not as much to read about there with them. They don't even hold any real titles it seems anymore. Han's just that guy with the famous ship and Leia is the other Skywalker who only occasionally busts out her amazing Jedi skills.

    I've said before I'd be fine if they sort of started the EU over and tried again to write something that was much better, but that's not going to happen. I'd rather they wrote some books from when they were younger (there is at least one on the horizon, Tim Zahn's book about Han during the OT era) and filled in some of those gaps or just stopped and maybe I can be relieved that I don't have to buy any more books only to wind up annoyed and I can just stick to fanfic with rarely disappoints the way the EU does.

    Isolder kidnapping Leia? Now that is definitely an interesting idea for a story.

    Oh, and lastly, Leia having a baby in her 60s would be quite the late in life baby! But we might be able to rewind a bit to when her kids were teenagers, that would've still been plausible.

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  3. OMG, You did not just "jump the shark!" Maybe you all are older than I think. i spent a good week being upset at the probability of H/L "flying off into the sunset." I think my exact words to my family when I finished Apocalypse, after starting it at 3:00am, was "What that's it, they spend their whole lives fighting for something and then that's it"......... I believe this is when I started a rather embarrassing scene crying, ok sobbing, "I know they are getting older, Oh my God, I'm getting older"...........at that point I locked myself in the bathroom, while my fifteen year old laughed at and tweeted about her mother's emotional fangirl breakdown. So to answer your question of "if we are prepared for them to fly-off into the sunset, umm No! I still think I need therapy after last week. That's the main reason why I wrote what I wrote on ff.net. I still think they have tremendous potential and a new generation to reach out to, there not dead yet, still plenty of opportunities. Was it worth it? I don't know yet. Love the BBQ picture. I think they also need a good tailgate party or margarita's on the beach, I know I do.

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  4. I know that barbeque quote well, but I disagree that George is defending the EU. Understandably you may not remember the actual quote, but what he says is in regard to why there won't be any more SW films. He's asked about a third SW trilogy and says that it won't ever happen because there is no more story to tell. So the interviewer then wonders what happens to Han and Leia after ROTJ. George then paints an idyllic image of domestic bliss, but stresses that it wouldn't make a good movie, hence why he won't be making anymore. So he appears to favour a rather different future to the EU.

    There is another quote from a German magazine that someone kindly translated to English on theforce.net where George talks about how the characters become boring after ROTJ, with Luke trying to rebuild the Jedi Order, which he says involves a lot of study, meanwhile Han and Leia get married and pop out some kids, and not a lot else happens.

    Yes I am a nerd for remembering this stuff, but it sounds to me that Lucas does have a different view.

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  5. My personal view is that I do believe they would still have "adventures" after ROTJ, because I agree they are not the stay at home type. Infact the EU as it stands is perfectly fine as long as we throw out COPL, Chewies death and the boys dying, and throw in them having more adventures TOGETHER.

    I honestly think Leia's child bearing years are far behind her, despite humans having a seemingly longer lifespan. But yeah, a grandson would be nice I think.

    Incidently those who have read Apocalypse, do you feel that Luke is also being "written" off, or do you think he's very much in the frame? I was just wondering.

    And the barbeque, would those be nerf burgers?

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  6. I'm with, seams. I think a good tailgate party is In order. And with nerf burgers. :)

    And sorry it was not such a good week for you last week, seams. Kind of funny if your daughter tweeted about it. My daughter likes to give me a hard time about SW too. I won't tell you what she said about it. It bordered in sacrilege.

    I totally forgot Push mentioning jumping the shark. I'm sure Han could try to make the Kessel Run in 11 parsecs.

    Thanks, Zyra. I bet there would be some good material in that idea.

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  7. Funny, I'm actually the one who told Push about jumping the shark even though she is an undisclosed amount of years older than me ;) Actually, Zyra and Push trivia: our birthdays are on back-to-back days. But no, you can't know which days.

    Seams, I'm a lot younger and I had an emotional reaction to it, too. Not in exactly the same way you did, but emotional nonetheless. Fortunately I do not have a daughter to tweet about it ;) I thought it was cute though how she reviewed your story.

    Claire, don't worry, I remembered all of that stuff.

    As for Luke being written off, not really. Bit of a spoiler here for those who have not read, but the Jedi are going to be moving their base of operations off Coruscant and starting anew. And it seems to me that Luke is still heavily involved in that and why would that change? Especially with his son still being young and in the middle of it. Luke will always have a place with the Jedi, but Han and Leia don't really have a place anywhere at the moment.

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    1. That's pretty funny about your birthdays, I mean, what are the chances of that?

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  8. I played this song all last week and it was the inspiration for the piece I wrote of course it just added to my misery and need for a margarita(s). Jimmy Buffett: Apocalypso. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i7HVPQy-R4
    This is someones homemade video, but the only thing I could find with the original music. Close your eyes and picture H/L. Will someone start the blender please.

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  9. Even just reading a few spoilers about Han and Leia in Apocalpse brought a few tears to my eyes, is it as sad as it sounds? I haven't read Fate of the Jedi, but it sounds like from reviews of the earlier books that H/L haven't really had a place in the story from the beginning of that series. I remember reading about them going to a pet show or something, and people were complaining that was that the best the writers could come up with for them? So why don't writers know what to do with them?

    I had a feeling that Luke would still be pretty important in everything.

    I agree with Zyra's earlier comment about how they have to bow out at some point, either by flying off into the sunset, or by death. And I too would rather have the first of those options. What do the rest of you think, would you rather they keep going til they inevitably get killed off, or would you rather they go off and have a little quiet time in their old age?

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  10. I was also told that the FOTJ series was not good and shouldn't waste my time, which is exactly why I decided to find out for myself (I rarely listen to critics). Whomever told me not to read them was wrong. I really enjoyed what I had a chance to listen/read. When you look at the timespan of the series it only really covers one and a half years of their lives. It just took nine books to tell of the various adventures. If anything Han and Leia were great comic relief. Unless the EU is planning on jumping ahead another 10 years (how old would that make Jaina?) I think that Han and Leia still have a lot of life still left in them. However, I do think the "powers that be" have painted themselves into a corner.

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  11. Just read at clubjade.net that there will be a BIG EU announcement tomorrow from Del rey and Lucasbooks. This info comes from Del Rey's twitter page.

    This has got me wondering, although I doubt it will be anything related to Han and Leia. I am fully expecting it to be some major series with the younger generation taking centre stage.

    Seams, I have also read a lot of negative things about Fate of the Jedi overall. That combined with my dislike of Han and Leia being old really put me off. However they had a few used copies going cheap on Amazon, so I've ordered the first two.

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  12. See, this is the first time ever I've not been excited about a big EU announcement. It will probably be something about the Old Republic or something WAY down the line in the future, like hundreds of years.

    FOTJ actually has a LOT of great Han and Leia stuff. And not just by Denning, but everyone. They're great in it. The series as a whole was kind of convoluted and what it started being about in the beginning wasn't really what it was about in the end. A couple of the first few books really didn't have that much to them and it just got kind of annoying that they were making us buy hard covers for really short books with no major events. Yes, Han and Leia went to an animal exhibition or something like that, but overall throughout the series they actually did do a lot. Legacy of the Force was a lot worse, in my opinion. And honestly the more I think about Jacen going Sith the more angry I get. I HATE that that happened, and in my opinion, it didn't really make for a great story. He could've been redeemed.

    Seams, Jaina is already like 35 I believe. You start making even her pretty old if you jump too far ahead! No offense! I just mean if you jump that much now they'll just keep going further and further until it's her turn to fade into the background, too.

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    1. I think Jaina needs some babies before they make her too old to have any.

      As for Jacen, he was supposed to be redeemed, Troy Denning has said that, but someone made them change the plot because Jaina is "the sword of the Jedi" and they thought it would be better for her character arc if she killed her brother!! Sorry, but that sucks!! I think the whole thing would have turned out more interesting if Jacen had come out the other side of it. Plus it would have spared poor Han and Leia totally unnecessary heartache.

      The rumour mill is picking up speed over the big EU thing tomorrow. Some people are thinking its a reboot. Whilst others are really playing it down. Can you seriously see them wiping the slate clean? As if some people aren't pissed off enough with the Lucas machine! No it won't be that for sure. I think you maybe right Zyra, it could well be some Old Republic series, or something else waaaay in the past. In which case, I really couldn't care less.

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  13. Thanks for clearing up what the interview was really talking about. Admittedly, it was YEARS ago and I was probably filling out many blanks with my own fading memory.

    For me, if they continue the storyline with Jaina and Jag and Han and Leia are nestled in the background for a few scenes, then I'll keep buying/reading.

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  14. If someone hears what the announcement is, can you post it? I don't have all the cool SW links. :)

    And btw, love the background pic.

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    1. No big announcement as yet, but I'm keeping an eye out for it. It's apparently something really "epic". Which probably means it will be a let down! If they post it before my bed time, (I'm hours ahead of most of you) then I will let you know.

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    2. "epic" always scares me...

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    3. Cool. Thanks. I've googled it, but haven't seen anything yet.

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    4. I think they'll announce it at around the same time they announced yesterday that it would happen today. So that will be in around 2 hours from now.

      I'm trying to think what it could be. Could it be the FINAL book featuring Han, Leia and Luke maybe? Or maybe something about Luke or Leia in the years between the prequel and classic trilogies? Maybe it's set way in the past, or the future when they wouldn't be alive anyway. It could be a major series with Ben, Jaina, Jag, Allana as the main characters or it could be some prequel era crap.

      Or MAYBE it's simply about Han's BBQ!!! :)

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    5. If it's about the BBQ, they better invite us. ;)

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  15. is it friday yet?
    no?
    damn.

    anyway, i like to assume (probably ignorantly) that ALL the missing time in between books and "adventures" is spent in peace, quiet and normal day-to-day, totally in love with each other, eat pancakes with their kids life. sure they have a missions every few years, but for the most part, they are happy and together. it may be very Mickey Mouse, but that's what gets me through the day.

    I live in constant hope they will continue to fill in the blanks with fab stories like "Mindor" and TG. Srsly. They helped restore my faith in the storyline, and to that end they should continue.

    I'd like them to work with Jaina & Jag, they've made them wait so long for each other, the least they can do is a few stories for them! On second thought, if they are as bad as some of the eariler stories with Han & Leia, maybe Lucas should leave it up to my imagination and all the wonderful authors on FF.net..

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    1. I also like to believe they have normal down time between all their adventures, where they do regular everyday stuff. I like to think that.

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  16. This COULD be the big announcement. They've just announced that Tim Zahn's Han novel is called "Scoundrels" and the cover art has been revealed. It looks awesome!! Everyone google it!!!

    One thing is a bit odd though....the novel is set just after the destruction of the first Death Star, and yet Han and Lando are taking part in a heist together. But hasn't it been established that in ESB Han hasn't seen Lando in a long time??

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    1. I saw the same thing. Ew.com is supposed to have the info, but page is broke. Will check later.

      Getting creative with things again, are they? Nothing like ignoring what you've already done.

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    2. Confirmed by Del Rey, this is the big news, and it's out at Christmas!!!

      Yeah it's at http://shelf-life.ew.com

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    3. As I suspected, not very exciting "news." And I don't mean to sound like I'm not totally going to read this book when it comes out. But more information on a book we already knew was coming to me doesn't warrant calling it a huge announcement.

      I'm also not thrilled that Lando is going to be involved. The way things left off between those two in the Han Solo trilogy made it seem like that was what, "..after what you pulled..." was referring to in ESB, and it had been quite a long time since they'd seen each other. Presumably now Han is going to have to do something else to make him be a bit wary of him. But, "That was a long time ago, I'm sure he's forgotten about that" seems a lot less believable if it's only been like two years.

      Maybe this is to make up for the fact that poor Lando was given one scant mention in the LAST chapter of Apocalypse. For those of you who haven't been reading, it's not because anything happened to him, he just didn't really have anything to do with the plot.

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    4. I know exactly what you mean Zyra. I am very underwhelmed myself, yet I'm still excited about the book, but it's just I was expecting something a bit more earth shattering, you know?

      It's a great cover though, isn't it?

      I'm not happy about Lando being in it either. A couple of years is not "a long time ago" and not long enough for Lando to have forgotten what he's pissed with Han about. But maybe they don't actually meet in the novel. I mean, Mara was in Allegiance and Choices of One, and she didn't cross paths with anyone enough to ruin her later introduction in the Thrawn books. So maybe Tim is just fooling with and will pull a similar thing in this? Unlikely judging by the blurb and pic, but I suppose it's possible.

      I always thought Lando had a pretty rough deal in the EU, he wasn't used nearly enough. So it would be good to see him get a bit of action again.

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    5. I always figured the "what you pulled" business was to do with what happened with everyone's favourite character (gag!) Bria. Han's friends all seemed to think he was in on her plot. that would be considered "a long time ago." it would have been almost 5 years.

      I love the cover tho. But that doesn't really say much, does it? Put Han solo on the cover of anything and i'll be in love with it...

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    6. I never really cared to read about Lando, sorry! I do feel bad for anyone who was a Lando fan though since yes, he was totally under-utilized. Especially once they killed half their other main characters (Anakin, Mara, Jacen) and they just made the world even smaller by not including him.

      I think I need to remind myself of things like Allegiance and Choices of One when I'm not happy about the books way in the future. They actually have gone back and filled in some gaps and the results were quite good.

      But yes, the cover is great.

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    7. Yes, zolo77, that's exactly what the "what you pulled" business was about. A.C Crispin, author of the Br*a Th*ren Trilogy, sorry, Han Solo Trilogy, has said as much in interviews. Hey, maybe Tim Zahn is going for a retcon with this and totally contradict those books and make it about something else entirely. And anything that craps all over Br*a is perfectly fine with me.

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    8. okay. you are officially my hero for bleeping out her name.
      props.

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    9. Aww, thanks....it's a pleasure to be of service!! :)

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  17. It does seem like an odd time frame to have Lando in, but eh. It's got a younger Han and doesn't require having to read an entire series to understand. I'm looking forward to it.

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    1. Plus, am I the only one who finds the cover a bit cheesy?

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    2. Honestly, the only thing I saw on the cover was young, hot Han.

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    3. Well, I don't deny the sexy that radiates from the center...

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  18. there was more to the cover then hot han? sorry, didn't notice.

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  19. I would agree on the cheesiness factor. What is it, a line up from Cops? But, yes, Han is hot as always.

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  20. The cover is very very different from any SW cover I've seen. I suppose it is a bit cheesy, but Han is just smokin hot, so I don't really care. There's apparently more "scoundrels" in the line up on the back cover.

    Mara has to be in this, somewhere, right? I don't think Tim could not mention her. I wonder if Leia will actually feature at all? I think maybe there will be a bit of her and Luke at the beginning and the end, with Han off "scoundrelling" (I just made that up!) for the main part of the book.

    Oh and I think it's safe to assume that this big heist he's involved in doesn't go to plan, because there's no way he will end up with that money.

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    1. scoundrelling.
      i like the sound of that.
      ;)

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  21. Oh, I could hear Leia and Han now -

    "Please, don't tell the kids that story about the heist you pulled. I don't want them getting any more ideas."

    "Aw, c'mon, sweetheart, it would go so much better this time with a couple of Jedi to help out."

    Scoundrelling - that's cute.

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  22. lol Amara, that's a good idea!!

    Ok I think I've officially become a Fate of the Jedi fan. My first 2 books arrived this morning, and even though I won't be reading them properly for a while yet I still had my obligatory flick through searching for Han and Leia bits!! OMG, they maybe far too old now, but damn, they're so cute together! There' appears to be a lot to like here. One line that's stuck in my head was Han thinking how he fell in love with Leia all over again at least once a week....awwww.

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  23. Man, now I want to read FOTJ. That is really cute. And would love to read about them and Allana.

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  24. Scoundrelling, that's funny!! Amara, I can so see Leia telling Han not to tell the kids about his great heist adventure.
    I really liked H/L in FOTJ. so many many great lines and really sweet interaction with Allana.

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  25. Han and Leia with their grand daughter is really nice to read about. Especially since we didn't get much of that with their own children at that age.

    Scoundreling. Definitely a word I intend to work into my vocabulary...

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